NO Match for Harriman/Schmidt

Thanks Rider, I appreciate it.

John already posted that he forgives Danny.

Maybe they will blow steam off on the table, after the match, they will shake hands and
it will be over with.

Possibly more than just one missed opportunity here. Never know until it happens.

Srt8Shots could have squashed the possibility of BFF and a Bromance.
 
JCIN said:
I dont know what Str8 shots is or what they do. I heard they were sponsoring some players by paying entry fees to events. If they have John under contract so be it. I think its weak sauce that another entity wants to come in and capitalize on a rivalry TAR made possible through the production of two previous events. There is a well documented history of TAR trying to get this third match to go so any other explanation is simply smoke and mirrors to cover up the fact they want to cut in on something TAR started.

I'm not really surprised though about the contract thing. I have always thought something like this would come to be eventually. I thought it would be with Bonus Ball but even as vocal as I have been about their missteps they never once pulled the contract card to prohibit one of their players from doing outside events.

Things like this happen every day in other sports. My mistake was trying to run TAR like someone who loves the game and wants to promote the players without controlling them. I have never claimed to be a good businessman and a good businessman would lock guys up. If this is the new landscape then TAR will adapt or get out just like any other business. Lots of others have tried to get into the "Challenge Match" game over the years from the IPT to InsidePool. So far we are still here so I like our chances.

I hold no ill will towards John as he is honoring a commitment he made and I respect that. Same goes for Danny if he decides to play. He has to pay his bills like everyone else and should take the money if he likes the deal. Str8 shots seems to think there is some big windfall to be had with this match. Maybe there is due to the history of the rivalry. The history that would not exist without the two previous productions.

I understand its just business. In the future I will treat it as such.

Thank you to everyone who has spoken up for TAR in this thread. I appreciate your support very much.
Click to expand...

I m shocked Mark Cantrel would not call you and ask if it was ok to do this match first. MArk if you read this please tell me there is something I am missing here. This is very disappointing.
 
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I agree with what Str8-Shots is doing and that is rebuilding a reputable image for pool, one that rewards good sportsmanship and leadership. (Maybe you all can take a look at their website and what they do for juniors and other teams).

This has nothing to do with them wanting to cut in on a TAR production. It is plain and simple that the basis of this match is the poor sportsmanship displayed between the two players, which is not aligned with the goals of John's sponsor.
 
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spanky79 said:
I m shocked Mark Cantrel would not call you and ask if it was ok to do this match first. MArk if you read this please tell me there is something I am missing here. This is very disappointing.
Click to expand...

are you implying that once tar has a ppv between 2 players that any other streamer should ask for tars permission to match the same guys up?
 
spanky79 said:
I m shocked Mark Cantrel would not call you and ask if it was ok to do this match first. MArk if you read this please tell me there is something I am missing here. This is very disappointing.
Click to expand...

Do you know for a fact that Mark Cantrill did *not* call TAR or JCIN, or leave a message asking for a return call?
 
I've read the threads but I haven't ever saw where Danny ever said he would even play. Did I miss something?
 
Zerius said:
I agree with what Str8-Shots is doing and that is rebuilding a reputable image for pool, one that rewards good sportsmanship and leadership. (Maybe you all can take a look at their website and what they do for juniors and other teams).
Click to expand...

Sportsmanship is not good for pool in the long run. Sorry to break the news to all the everyone is a winner and gets a trophy crowd.

Because it's boring to the non pool world, bitter rivalries are it's only hope.

JC
 
JC said:
Sportsmanship is not good for pool in the long run. Sorry to break the news to all the everyone is a winner and gets a trophy crowd.

Because it's boring to the non pool world, bitter rivalries are it's only hope.

JC
Click to expand...

Speaking for myself, there are pool matches I will make sure I clear my agenda and make myself available to watch. This one would be a prime example, if not for the history between these 2 I'd more then likely pass on the opportunity to watch unless I had noting else going on. Another example is the John vs Lou match, I wouldn't cross the street to watch this match for free if it weren't for the history etc.

There have been matches promoted as being a grudge match, fight to the death match etc, Ive found its hard to fake animosity, it's either there or it's not.

With that being said I've watched plenty of matches where the 2 players have respect for one another, both great players, some times a match just needs that drama to make it more appealing to me.
 
I understand that there is some confusion and controversy surrounding my previous post. You can call me names, question our business practices, or whatever else it is that you would like to do but at the end of the day it is not going to change our decision. At Str8 Shots we are committed to improving the image of billiards and darts through the promotion of sportsmanship, integrity, and professional behavior by all of our players. Everyone on Team Str8 Shots signed a contract to uphold these values and the image of professionalism. All of the players are aware that to violate the terms would be an immediate termination of their contracts.

On Thursday night of last week, after both players verbally agreed with Mark Cantrill to do the match, and after Mark left a voicemail message for Justin from TAR, he presented the opportunity before him to Str8 Shots management. At that time upper management did not have an understanding as to the depth of the controversy surrounding these two players. Upon doing some research we realized that the situation was highly volatile.

We spoke with both players and were informed the TAR match was not an option. Therefore from our perspective that offer was off the table. Based on the verbal agreement both players had made with Mark Cantrill, it was apparent that there were several factors that still needed to be addressed to make the match successful. Those factors included; time to prepare for the match, the formats for the match, the rules that would govern the match, and fair compensation for both of the players. After all of those things had been negotiated, both players would have to agree to do the match under the new guidelines.

Sometimes this process takes a lot of hand holding and negotiating between the promoter, host site, sponsors, and players. As Justin stated 19 months ago when trying to get this match scheduled, “I know that no matter what something is going to not be good enough. No matter how much work, ego stroking, hand holding or babysitting it's not going to be enough. One guy will say something to the other and piss them off and they will not want to play, one guy will want a rule the other doesn’t and they won’t want to play, one will want to sit in a chair the other wants. Some things just are not meant to be.”

Str8 Shots made the decision, based on all of the above information, not to move forward with promoting or sponsoring the match at this time. Since management decided to back out of the deal, made between the players and Mark Cantrill, we have made arrangements to compensate both players.

Justin, on behalf of TAR, offered to produce the match between these two players. We have the utmost respect for the work that Justin, on behalf of TAR, does for industry. It was not our intention to stop any player from doing the matches that are presented to them by any promoter. However, at the time of our decision on Friday, based on all the facts before us, no match could take place because TAR was off the table and we were not moving forward. Challenge matches typically generate revenue for the producers. Controversial matches, which are preferred by many viewers, generate an increased amount of revenue. We encourage promoters to provide the viewers with these in demand matches. We just opted not to do this match at this time.

We do not control or make decisions for any of our players. We present opportunities to our players to promote the growth and success of the billiard or dart industries in the best possible manner. Our players make the final decision as to whether or not they take an opportunity presented to them by any promoter. However, we feel it would hypocritical if we did not inform the player that the opportunity presented, knowingly puts them in a position to violate their contract.

I feel that this statement has cleared up any misunderstanding regarding my post Friday night. I will not be addressing the issue of this match any further unless the parties involved wish to discuss it. They can reach me by phone as it is my opinion that this forum is not the appropriate venue to conduct business.

Kimberly Griffiths
(877) 921-9511 ext. 121
Kimberly@str8-shots.com
 
Str8 Shots said:
I understand that there is some confusion and controversy surrounding my previous post. You can call me names, question our business practices, or whatever else it is that you would like to do but at the end of the day it is not going to change our decision. At Str8 Shots we are committed to improving the image of billiards and darts through the promotion of sportsmanship, integrity, and professional behavior by all of our players. Everyone on Team Str8 Shots signed a contract to uphold these values and the image of professionalism. All of the players are aware that to violate the terms would be an immediate termination of their contracts.

On Thursday night of last week, after both players verbally agreed with Mark Cantrill to do the match, and after Mark left a voicemail message for Justin from TAR, he presented the opportunity before him to Str8 Shots management. At that time upper management did not have an understanding as to the depth of the controversy surrounding these two players. Upon doing some research we realized that the situation was highly volatile.

We spoke with both players and were informed the TAR match was not an option. Therefore from our perspective that offer was off the table. Based on the verbal agreement both players had made with Mark Cantrill, it was apparent that there were several factors that still needed to be addressed to make the match successful. Those factors included; time to prepare for the match, the formats for the match, the rules that would govern the match, and fair compensation for both of the players. After all of those things had been negotiated, both players would have to agree to do the match under the new guidelines.

Sometimes this process takes a lot of hand holding and negotiating between the promoter, host site, sponsors, and players. As Justin stated 19 months ago when trying to get this match scheduled, “I know that no matter what something is going to not be good enough. No matter how much work, ego stroking, hand holding or babysitting it's not going to be enough. One guy will say something to the other and piss them off and they will not want to play, one guy will want a rule the other doesn’t and they won’t want to play, one will want to sit in a chair the other wants. Some things just are not meant to be.”

Str8 Shots made the decision, based on all of the above information, not to move forward with promoting or sponsoring the match at this time. Since management decided to back out of the deal, made between the players and Mark Cantrill, we have made arrangements to compensate both players.

Justin, on behalf of TAR, offered to produce the match between these two players. We have the utmost respect for the work that Justin, on behalf of TAR, does for industry. It was not our intention to stop any player from doing the matches that are presented to them by any promoter. However, at the time of our decision on Friday, based on all the facts before us, no match could take place because TAR was off the table and we were not moving forward. Challenge matches typically generate revenue for the producers. Controversial matches, which are preferred by many viewers, generate an increased amount of revenue. We encourage promoters to provide the viewers with these in demand matches. We just opted not to do this match at this time.

We do not control or make decisions for any of our players. We present opportunities to our players to promote the growth and success of the billiard or dart industries in the best possible manner. Our players make the final decision as to whether or not they take an opportunity presented to them by any promoter. However, we feel it would hypocritical if we did not inform the player that the opportunity presented, knowingly puts them in a position to violate their contract.

I feel that this statement has cleared up any misunderstanding regarding my post Friday night. I will not be addressing the issue of this match any further unless the parties involved wish to discuss it. They can reach me by phone as it is my opinion that this forum is not the appropriate venue to conduct business.

Kimberly Griffiths
(877) 921-9511 ext. 121
Kimberly@str8-shots.com
Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the time to provide some answers to questions that lingered in some folks' minds.

Well done! Bravo! Good look to Stra8-Shots. Wishing you all the best in your future endeavors! :smile:
 
Very nicely written but I did find a few typos.

"However, we feel it would hypocritical if..."

There should be the word be in between would and hypocritical...


Str8 Shots said:
I understand that there is some confusion and controversy surrounding my previous post. You can call me names, question our business practices, or whatever else it is that you would like to do but at the end of the day it is not going to change our decision. At Str8 Shots we are committed to improving the image of billiards and darts through the promotion of sportsmanship, integrity, and professional behavior by all of our players. Everyone on Team Str8 Shots signed a contract to uphold these values and the image of professionalism. All of the players are aware that to violate the terms would be an immediate termination of their contracts.

On Thursday night of last week, after both players verbally agreed with Mark Cantrill to do the match, and after Mark left a voicemail message for Justin from TAR, he presented the opportunity before him to Str8 Shots management. At that time upper management did not have an understanding as to the depth of the controversy surrounding these two players. Upon doing some research we realized that the situation was highly volatile.

We spoke with both players and were informed the TAR match was not an option. Therefore from our perspective that offer was off the table. Based on the verbal agreement both players had made with Mark Cantrill, it was apparent that there were several factors that still needed to be addressed to make the match successful. Those factors included; time to prepare for the match, the formats for the match, the rules that would govern the match, and fair compensation for both of the players. After all of those things had been negotiated, both players would have to agree to do the match under the new guidelines.

Sometimes this process takes a lot of hand holding and negotiating between the promoter, host site, sponsors, and players. As Justin stated 19 months ago when trying to get this match scheduled, “I know that no matter what something is going to not be good enough. No matter how much work, ego stroking, hand holding or babysitting it's not going to be enough. One guy will say something to the other and piss them off and they will not want to play, one guy will want a rule the other doesn’t and they won’t want to play, one will want to sit in a chair the other wants. Some things just are not meant to be.”

Str8 Shots made the decision, based on all of the above information, not to move forward with promoting or sponsoring the match at this time. Since management decided to back out of the deal, made between the players and Mark Cantrill, we have made arrangements to compensate both players.

Justin, on behalf of TAR, offered to produce the match between these two players. We have the utmost respect for the work that Justin, on behalf of TAR, does for industry. It was not our intention to stop any player from doing the matches that are presented to them by any promoter. However, at the time of our decision on Friday, based on all the facts before us, no match could take place because TAR was off the table and we were not moving forward. Challenge matches typically generate revenue for the producers. Controversial matches, which are preferred by many viewers, generate an increased amount of revenue. We encourage promoters to provide the viewers with these in demand matches. We just opted not to do this match at this time.

We do not control or make decisions for any of our players. We present opportunities to our players to promote the growth and success of the billiard or dart industries in the best possible manner. Our players make the final decision as to whether or not they take an opportunity presented to them by any promoter. However, we feel it would hypocritical if we did not inform the player that the opportunity presented, knowingly puts them in a position to violate their contract.

I feel that this statement has cleared up any misunderstanding regarding my post Friday night. I will not be addressing the issue of this match any further unless the parties involved wish to discuss it. They can reach me by phone as it is my opinion that this forum is not the appropriate venue to conduct business.

Kimberly Griffiths
(877) 921-9511 ext. 121
Kimberly@str8-shots.com
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Str8 Shots said:
I understand that there is some confusion and controversy surrounding my previous post. You can call me names, question our business practices, or whatever else it is that you would like to do but at the end of the day it is not going to change our decision. At Str8 Shots we are committed to improving the image of billiards and darts through the promotion of sportsmanship, integrity, and professional behavior by all of our players. Everyone on Team Str8 Shots signed a contract to uphold these values and the image of professionalism. All of the players are aware that to violate the terms would be an immediate termination of their contracts.

On Thursday night of last week, after both players verbally agreed with Mark Cantrill to do the match, and after Mark left a voicemail message for Justin from TAR, he presented the opportunity before him to Str8 Shots management. At that time upper management did not have an understanding as to the depth of the controversy surrounding these two players. Upon doing some research we realized that the situation was highly volatile.

We spoke with both players and were informed the TAR match was not an option. Therefore from our perspective that offer was off the table. Based on the verbal agreement both players had made with Mark Cantrill, it was apparent that there were several factors that still needed to be addressed to make the match successful. Those factors included; time to prepare for the match, the formats for the match, the rules that would govern the match, and fair compensation for both of the players. After all of those things had been negotiated, both players would have to agree to do the match under the new guidelines.

Sometimes this process takes a lot of hand holding and negotiating between the promoter, host site, sponsors, and players. As Justin stated 19 months ago when trying to get this match scheduled, “I know that no matter what something is going to not be good enough. No matter how much work, ego stroking, hand holding or babysitting it's not going to be enough. One guy will say something to the other and piss them off and they will not want to play, one guy will want a rule the other doesn’t and they won’t want to play, one will want to sit in a chair the other wants. Some things just are not meant to be.”

Str8 Shots made the decision, based on all of the above information, not to move forward with promoting or sponsoring the match at this time. Since management decided to back out of the deal, made between the players and Mark Cantrill, we have made arrangements to compensate both players.

Justin, on behalf of TAR, offered to produce the match between these two players. We have the utmost respect for the work that Justin, on behalf of TAR, does for industry. It was not our intention to stop any player from doing the matches that are presented to them by any promoter. However, at the time of our decision on Friday, based on all the facts before us, no match could take place because TAR was off the table and we were not moving forward. Challenge matches typically generate revenue for the producers. Controversial matches, which are preferred by many viewers, generate an increased amount of revenue. We encourage promoters to provide the viewers with these in demand matches. We just opted not to do this match at this time.

We do not control or make decisions for any of our players. We present opportunities to our players to promote the growth and success of the billiard or dart industries in the best possible manner. Our players make the final decision as to whether or not they take an opportunity presented to them by any promoter. However, we feel it would hypocritical if we did not inform the player that the opportunity presented, knowingly puts them in a position to violate their contract.

I feel that this statement has cleared up any misunderstanding regarding my post Friday night. I will not be addressing the issue of this match any further unless the parties involved wish to discuss it. They can reach me by phone as it is my opinion that this forum is not the appropriate venue to conduct business.

Kimberly Griffiths
(877) 921-9511 ext. 121
Kimberly@str8-shots.com
Click to expand...

thank you for clarifying your position. i can see you are a person who puts their money where their mouth is. paying both players to not play a match speaks volumes about your ideals and integrity.

i hope your organzation grows and prospers
 
Str8t Shots,

I suggested earlier in this thread that the jury should remain out until you respond.
In reading you latest post, there is one thing that is troubling to me. You state that
you do not want to go forward with the match at this time. If your sole motivation
for preventing this match from happening was truly to uphold the reputation of pool
and your players, then I feel you should have simply closed the door on this
match altogether. Otherwise, it definitely looks like a potential move to screw TAR,
who has done a lot for the players and viewers, and prevent your players from
engaging in the matches that you say they are free to participate in and which you
say you wish to see take place. It doesn’t add up.

Why have you left the door open for this match and left us with the suspicion that
you and Mark may do this match in the future? If that is your intention, then
your motivation for stopping this TAR matchup is clearly financial rather upholding
the reputation of pool as you say. Failing to come on here and answer this question
only leaves us to believe that you have no good answer. The thousands of hits on
this thread are certainly from many of the same people, but it is still a lot of people
who are going to certainly tell other people. Word of this fiasco will spread. I think
it is in your best interest to handle this situation gracefully.
 
Str8 Shots said:
I understand that there is some confusion and controversy surrounding my previous post. You can call me names, question our business practices, or whatever else it is that you would like to do but at the end of the day it is not going to change our decision. At Str8 Shots we are committed to improving the image of billiards and darts through the promotion of sportsmanship, integrity, and professional behavior by all of our players. Everyone on Team Str8 Shots signed a contract to uphold these values and the image of professionalism. All of the players are aware that to violate the terms would be an immediate termination of their contracts.

On Thursday night of last week, after both players verbally agreed with Mark Cantrill to do the match, and after Mark left a voicemail message for Justin from TAR, he presented the opportunity before him to Str8 Shots management. At that time upper management did not have an understanding as to the depth of the controversy surrounding these two players. Upon doing some research we realized that the situation was highly volatile.

We spoke with both players and were informed the TAR match was not an option. Therefore from our perspective that offer was off the table. Based on the verbal agreement both players had made with Mark Cantrill, it was apparent that there were several factors that still needed to be addressed to make the match successful. Those factors included; time to prepare for the match, the formats for the match, the rules that would govern the match, and fair compensation for both of the players. After all of those things had been negotiated, both players would have to agree to do the match under the new guidelines.

Sometimes this process takes a lot of hand holding and negotiating between the promoter, host site, sponsors, and players. As Justin stated 19 months ago when trying to get this match scheduled, “I know that no matter what something is going to not be good enough. No matter how much work, ego stroking, hand holding or babysitting it's not going to be enough. One guy will say something to the other and piss them off and they will not want to play, one guy will want a rule the other doesn’t and they won’t want to play, one will want to sit in a chair the other wants. Some things just are not meant to be.”

Str8 Shots made the decision, based on all of the above information, not to move forward with promoting or sponsoring the match at this time. Since management decided to back out of the deal, made between the players and Mark Cantrill, we have made arrangements to compensate both players.

Justin, on behalf of TAR, offered to produce the match between these two players. We have the utmost respect for the work that Justin, on behalf of TAR, does for industry. It was not our intention to stop any player from doing the matches that are presented to them by any promoter. However, at the time of our decision on Friday, based on all the facts before us, no match could take place because TAR was off the table and we were not moving forward. Challenge matches typically generate revenue for the producers. Controversial matches, which are preferred by many viewers, generate an increased amount of revenue. We encourage promoters to provide the viewers with these in demand matches. We just opted not to do this match at this time.

We do not control or make decisions for any of our players. We present opportunities to our players to promote the growth and success of the billiard or dart industries in the best possible manner. Our players make the final decision as to whether or not they take an opportunity presented to them by any promoter. However, we feel it would hypocritical if we did not inform the player that the opportunity presented, knowingly puts them in a position to violate their contract.

I feel that this statement has cleared up any misunderstanding regarding my post Friday night. I will not be addressing the issue of this match any further unless the parties involved wish to discuss it. They can reach me by phone as it is my opinion that this forum is not the appropriate venue to conduct business.

Kimberly Griffiths
(877) 921-9511 ext. 121
Kimberly@str8-shots.com
Click to expand...

So you let your players make their own decisions, yet you remind them if they don't do as you wish, you end their contract? So you don't allow them to make their own decisions, basically.

They're not YOUR players. You have a modest sponsorship agreement with them... that's all.

I think you're risking having all of YOUR players walk after viewing your stance on this.

Sent from my Galaxy S4
 
TwoRailDave said:
Str8t Shots,

I suggested earlier in this thread that the jury should remain out until you respond.
In reading you latest post, there is one thing that is troubling to me. You state that
you do not want to go forward with the match at this time. If your sole motivation
for preventing this match from happening was truly to uphold the reputation of pool
and your players, then I feel you should have simply closed the door on this
match altogether. Otherwise, it definitely looks like a potential move to screw TAR,
who has done a lot for the players and viewers, and prevent your players from
engaging in the matches that you say they are free to participate in and which you
say you wish to see take place. It doesn’t add up.

Why have you left the door open for this match and left us with the suspicion that
you and Mark may do this match in the future? If that is your intention, then
your motivation for stopping this TAR matchup is clearly financial rather upholding
the reputation of pool as you say. Failing to come on here and answer this question
only leaves us to believe that you have no good answer. The thousands of hits on
this thread are certainly from many of the same people, but it is still a lot of people
who are going to certainly tell other people. Word of this fiasco will spread. I think
it is in your best interest to handle this situation gracefully.
Click to expand...

in the thread about a bcapl lo knowingly playing an ineligible player at the nationals mark griffin posted in that thread that this forum was not the place to conduct his business . the posters on here evidently agreed with him and the thread died a sudden death. i think the same applies here.
 
lorider said:
in the thread about a bcapl lo knowingly playing an ineligible player at the nationals mark griffin posted in that thread that this forum was not the place to conduct his business . the posters on here evidently agreed with him and the thread died a sudden death. i think the same applies here.
Click to expand...

Hear, hear. Good point, and I agree! :)
 
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