GPPA League by Mike Sigel: $250,000 first prize and $1 million guaranteed

Donny...Do you really believe that making the 8 on the break is that prevalent? The IPT stats don't support that. 8 on the break has always been perhaps a 2-3% statistic, and isn't likely to change.

There is no more sandbagging in the APA than there is in other leagues. It's just overblown here on the forums, by a very vocal minority. Some people will always look for ways to "beat the system", regardless of what league handicap system it is. The real truth is that if every team followed the scorekeeping rules to the the letter, there would little if any sandbagging in the APA. Most people are just too lazy.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Donny Lutz said:
Abandoning the World Standardized Rules (which were the result of countless hours of discussion over a number of years) to return to the 8-ball wins and/or loses on the break, etc. is another step backward. Just adds too much luck to the game.

On the upside, these rules do discourage sand-bagging, but that is a major problem only in the APA system, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
 
Good idea and I'd like to see Mike make it work. The tough part is getting league operators across the country to sign up.
 
Sandbagging

hang-the-9 said:
I've seen sandbagging in just about every single handicapped league or tournament. There is always someone that tries to sneak in as a lower level, and in some cases, the tournament director is fully aware of them doing it. Is there a 3 foul rule in 8 ball in this league? I wonder how they think it will work as one of the handicaps is that the lower players get several ball in hands each game. It also seems like the players are ranked up to D - - since a 1 or a 2 gets ball in hand each rack, and almost any B player can run out a rack off the break in 8 ball, much less with a ball in hand at any time.
Click to expand...

Having played in sixteen different league organizations, I have not seen extensive sandbagging in most. I've actually seen attempts at sandbagging in VNEA and BCA leagues backfire on the sandbaggers, as they gave up points in their sandbagging that they needed to break ties in the standings later on...
 
So, you have your experience only to back up your disparaging comments about the APA...a nationwide organization, with a quarter-million weekly players. As I have stated before, whether you believe it or not, I was an APA LO in SW MT and E ID for four years. Now admittedly I had a little less than 100 teams (700 players), but there was NO sandbagging in my league. Teams were instructed annually, and signed a statement agreeing to, sportsmanship being primary. If you were 'convicted' of sandbagging in my league I merely raised you to a permanent 7 handicap (9ball was just starting when I sold my league, to start touring nationally, after buying Jack White's tour). Sandbag all you want as the top handicap...you'll never go down. Don't like it? Quit! In 4 years I had to kick only 2 players out...and that was for sportsmanship violations (fighting), rather than sandbagging violations. Now my experience is likely different than some other larger league areas, but nonetheless, sandbagging can only exist if both teams allow it.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Donny Lutz said:
Having played in sixteen different league organizations, I have not seen extensive sandbagging in most. I've actually seen attempts at sandbagging in VNEA and BCA leagues backfire on the sandbaggers, as they gave up points in their sandbagging that they needed to break ties in the standings later on...
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
So, you have your experience only to back up your disparaging comments about the APA...a nationwide organization, with a quarter-million weekly players. As I have stated before, whether you believe it or not, I was an APA LO in SW MT and E ID for four years. Now admittedly I had a little less than 100 teams (700 players), but there was NO sandbagging in my league. Teams were instructed annually, and signed a statement agreeing to, sportsmanship being primary. If you were 'convicted' of sandbagging in my league I merely raised you to a permanent 7 handicap (9ball was just starting when I sold my league, to start touring nationally, after buying Jack White's tour). Sandbag all you want as the top handicap...you'll never go down. Don't like it? Quit! In 4 years I had to kick only 2 players out...and that was for sportsmanship violations (fighting), rather than sandbagging violations. Now my experience is likely different than some other larger league areas, but nonetheless, sandbagging can only exist if both teams allow it.



Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...


Come on Scott, get over yourself. You can put that out there for someone who doesnt know better.

700 players and NONE sandbagged.

Ok, whatever lets you sleep at night.

If you want to say there was minimal, okay. Or I controlled it to a level that was very small.

Otherwise you sound like a little kid that believes in Santa Claus.

Ken
 
Like I said, Ken...you can believe it or not. I couldn't care less. I knew every one of my players personally, plus I had division reps in all 5 of my league areas, that were on the lookout, and/or would have ways to investigate complaints. There was also a 'board of governors' to handle complaints, so that it wasn't strictly up to me. The APA system works if it's properly implemented and controlled. You are welcome to think whatever you like. If sandbagging was as widespread and rampant as you APA bashers want people to believe, the league would have failed many years ago. :rolleyes: Oh, and just FTR, if you'd like to place a bet on what I said, I still have over 100 former league members, that I have contact with, that you could poll.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Ken_4fun said:
Come on Scott, get over yourself. You can put that out there for someone who doesnt know better.

700 players and NONE sandbagged.

Ok, whatever lets you sleep at night.

If you want to say there was minimal, okay. Or I controlled it to a level that was very small.

Otherwise you sound like a little kid that believes in Santa Claus.

Ken
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Scott Lee said:
Donny...Do you really believe that making the 8 on the break is that prevalent? The IPT stats don't support that. 8 on the break has always been perhaps a 2-3% statistic, and isn't likely to change.

There is no more sandbagging in the APA than there is in other leagues. It's just overblown here on the forums, by a very vocal minority. Some people will always look for ways to "beat the system", regardless of what league handicap system it is. The real truth is that if every team followed the scorekeeping rules to the the letter, there would little if any sandbagging in the APA. Most people are just too lazy.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott, I think you are completely correct. I've played APA for about 18 years now. I started when I started pool. I was a 3 and worked my way up to a 7. Now I'm one of the top couple in my league area. I never missed a single ball on purpose that whole time. I have a team of people with the same approach. I am proud to say that I captained 2 teams to Vegas with zero sandbagging. Needless to say we did not do so hot in Vegas haha!

Scott, one thing to consider is that since the APA is the biggest, and been around for quite some time, that more information is out there about *how* to sandbag effectively. As such, it is possible that there is *slightly* more sandbagging than some other less developed leagues. But I agree with you completely...there is certainly sandbagging in any handicapped league. The APA is far from unique in that respect.

KMRUNOUT
 
KMRUNOUT said:
Scott, one thing to consider is that since the APA is the biggest, and been around for quite some time, that more information is out there about *how* to sandbag effectively. As such, it is possible that there is *slightly* more sandbagging than some other less developed leagues. But I agree with you completely...there is certainly sandbagging in any handicapped league. The APA is far from unique in that respect.

KMRUNOUT
Click to expand...


That I agree with.

(Well I mean all except in the perfect world of Scott's league)
 
Lonestar_jim said:
The rules as some of you have laid out could be a great enhancement to the no-conflict rules that a Pennsylvania room owner uses.

This would really speed up his tournaments !

Hang - 9,
Does the diesel help cauterize the cuts made by the glass ?
Click to expand...

I hope so, I'll be trying this after I join an APA league. I'm going to go in order. First, APA league, then glass eating, then GPPA league if they stick with these rules. I think the pain felt by allowing someone 6 ball in hands in a game of 8 ball and letting Bustamante break for them would make the glass eating feel mild by comparison.
 
hang-the-9 said:
Sounded like a good idea until I read the rules. Just competing in a pro tournament qualifies you as a Pro? I played in a Joss event which often has several pros playing in it, I guess I am out. If you have a few hundred dollars lying around and you are bored you can play in almost any "Pro" tournament. Heck, read OMGWTF blog, she thinks it's funny that non-players think or her as a great player or a pro because she enters high-level events.

Plus ball in hand multiple times a game? No safety play allowed? hehe You can have a better player break for you? HAHAH You can't use a deliberate safe as a strategy against a low player AND you give them 3-4-5-6 BALL IN HANDS EACH GAME??? LOL HOHOHO HAHAHAH... oh that's good....

I'd rather play in the APA. And I'd rather drive nails into my fingers than play in the APA, which leaves these league rules a bit bellow eating glass with a diesel chaser on list of things I like.

Did PoolKiller or Pushnpool write the rules?

Was this his final strategy to bring down well played pool by good players? It worked!
Click to expand...

Oh come on Hang... You know I'm against regular BiH, do you really think I'd give it to any player any time? Also, handicapping and no safes? Who the hell made these rules? I'd rather play by texas ruleset :D
 
Push&Pool said:
Oh come on Hang... You know I'm against regular BiH, do you really think I'd give it to any player any time? Also, handicapping and no safes? Who the hell made these rules? I'd rather play by texas ruleset :D
Click to expand...

You have a point there :cool: The rules are so bad, even admitted bangers don't like them :rolleyes:
 
Although I find the rules convoluted beyond what is necessary, there is some merit in what Mike is trying to do. With some fine tuning it just might work.

My wife and I enjoy playing pool together but I found it increasingly difficult to maintain my focus when we played against each other for practice because of the difference in our skill levels.

Although, I had made a decision some time ago to try to practice with the same intensity and focus that I played with when competing and it was almost impossible to maintain when I would play against my wife. As a solution I started to give her a ball in hand whenever I missed as long as she had at least two balls still in play in addition to the 8 ball. The benefit was twofold. Her game improved because the ball in hand caused her to think shape and patterns. My game improved because I focused on each shot.
 
Ken...The real truth is that I was a total Nazi when it came to sandbagging in my league areas. They were broken down to 5 geographic areas, with about 20 teams per area. Like I said, I went out of my way to personally know, and communicate with every one of my league players...not to mention that as an instructor I could spot sandbagging from across the room. Heck, I might have had the only APA franchise with no sandbagging (but I would hope not). I don't see you jumpin' on that offer of a wager I made you. I got a couple of bucks to put up...:D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Ken_4fun said:
That I agree with.

(Well I mean all except in the perfect world of Scott's league)
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Ken...The real truth is that I was a total Nazi when it came to sandbagging in my league areas. They were broken down to 5 geographic areas, with about 20 teams per area. Like I said, I went out of my way to personally know, and communicate with every one of my league players...not to mention that as an instructor I could spot sandbagging from across the room. Heck, I might have had the only APA franchise with no sandbagging (but I would hope not). I don't see you jumpin' on that offer of a wager I made you. I got a couple of bucks to put up...:D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

I don't want to make a bet with your cousin even if she is your wife....

:thumbup:

Ken
 
Watchez and Spider

I won't be at Champions until Thursday. If Mike is still in town I will ask him about the escrow and let you know. I think he will be there but he is leaving shortly to do some exhibitions and promote the league in the New England area. If I don't catch him before he leaves I will shoot him an email and try to find out for you.

Wedge
 
hang-the-9 said:
You have a point there :cool: The rules are so bad, even admitted bangers don't like them :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

OK, to be honest, there's no such thing as bad rules. Maybe the two of us and some people here don't like them, but there are others who may play by them and enjoy them. It's a good thing about pool actually, this ruleset diversity. It causes a lot of trouble for sure, but it also allows everyone to find, learn and enjoy any variant of each game they like the most. For some it is WPA/BCA, for others APA, then there are smaller organizations, competitions and tournaments, thousands of bar variants and so on. Many players enjoy more than one version :thumbup:
 
Mike Sigel's Email response to the escrow question

Hello Frank
We have a commitment from a major surety company. We are in the process of providing them with the documentation that the league has been organized with league operators and a player base. BEFORE THE FIRST MATCH IS PLAYED THE BOND WILL BE IN EFFECT.
Thanks
Mike
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top