Allison Fisher called a foul on herself on a hill-hill match!

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Darren Appleton also called a foul on himself in the 2004 WPF 8 ball world final. Trailing 9-10 in a race to 11, he broke (and went in off) but called a 2 visit foul on himself, knowing it cost him the the title (the ref didn't see his cue hit another ball).

Say what?:confused:
You can't foul twice on one shot.
 

leto1776

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
She was discussing the situation with Vivian during the commentary for the semis last night. Allison said no one had seen the 4-ball brush her tip, but she would not want to win that way.
 

tucson9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good for Allison. But, at the same time, I find threads like this rather disturbing. How screwed up as a society are we that we find it noteworthy and exceptional when someone actually does the right thing?? When they do what is supposed to be the normal thing to do.

^^^^^^^^WHAT NEIL SAID!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^


I witnessed a perfect example in the BCAPL Open Singles. My friend was shooting the ball before the 8 and his opponent called the ref over to watch the hit. The ref called bad hit says "foul" and gives BIH to my friends opponent.
My friend, his opponent and myself all look confused. It was obviously a good hit but the ref called "foul". So....the other guy starts shooting his balls in one at a time, it was a pretty easy runout. He gets down to 1 ball before the 8 and finally can't stand it any longer. He looks over at my friend and me, then bumps the cue ball with his cue. He gives my friend BIH and says good game. He says "I can't take a win like that".
This showed a lot of class!
It also shows that a ref does not always make the call correctly. I think the shooter should call a foul on themselves if they know that they fouled.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn't say that the player shouldn't tell the ref that they believe they fouled. I said that the ref should have the final say. If the ref wants to accept what the player said, then fine, although I disagree with this tact. But the final call belongs to the referee presiding over the match.

If I were the referee I would only accept what I directly witnessed or could logically reason based on the circumstances. This way, none of the players could be erroneously accused of cheating. Sometimes the player didn't see that they fouled. Should they be accused of cheating because they didn't turn them self in? How do they prove they didn't notice it? Where does it end?

That's why the ref needs to be consistent in how he makes his calls. There will always be some consequences, but in the long run it's the fairest way to go to protect both players.
 
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shinobi

kanadajindayo
Silver Member
If a player calls a foul on themselves (when a ref is present), some people judge them wrong for calling it.

If a player doesn't call a fall on themselves (that the ref missed) some people call them a cheat.

Talk about a no-win situation.

Speaking of judging -- just noticed on that linked page there is a poster of all professional players. All of them... except 1. Shanelle Loraine. Maybe on the next US Open promotional flyer they can put SVB, Archer, Strickland, Pagulayan, and some banger.
 

spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why is this a front page story on the Dragon Promotions page??
I don't think it should even be mentioned, anywhere, ever...

You are supposed to call a foul on yourself, no matter what the circumstances are, no matter the "wager" is.....

Next thing, we will be rewarding people for doing the right thing..
2 possible reasons
1) Allison Fisher is managed by Dragon Promotions so this is great way to promote the DP brand. It usually is these media agents/handlers/spin doctors who blows things up for the publicity

2) Maybe despite the oft stated claim by many pool players that they should call a foul themselves, the sad reality may be that it is all talk and most are not practising it. So when it is done by Allison, it becomes a story cos the pool community feels guilty and so publicise it to remind their members to behave themselves and not cheat :D
Pool is a sport and as in any sports there are cheats eg cycling has Lance Armstrong, gold has Phil Mickelson, football has Maradona.
It is actually nonsense to expect players to call foul on themselves, referees/judges are paid to do that.
I mean if pool and any sports trust the players to referee themselves, there is no need for referees, judges. :D
 

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
IMO some of the old/pure rules need to be removed. Calling a foul for brushing a ball with your sleeve, tie, or boob that maybe moves a ball less than a 1/4" is way over the top...put the fn ball back. Maybe if someone moves balls a lot a foul should be called as they are probably trying to cheat. Johnnyt

Play some One Pocket against good manipulators and see that them moving balls 1/64" is enough to make or break a rack.
 

rrick33

Rick
Silver Member
This discussion over "self calling" a foul has been beaten to death numerous times in this forum. The fact that a notable pro self called a foul does not some how give the defenders of this practice a credible saint to follow and promote their agenda. Otherwise we can pull the footage from other pros who didn't self call a foul to justify other perspectives. The publics memory is short and in the end it's the performer that we admire, not the controversies over behavior regarding an unwritten rule.

None of us will ever know Allison's reason for calling the foul.....

Perhaps she just felt it was the right thing for her.......not you and not society and not because there's some unwritten rule.

Perhaps the match was being filmed and eventually this type of inane controversy would come back to haunt her so it's better to just call it and avoid the hacklers.

Perhaps it's because she was playing a close friend and the normal rules or "lack there of" regarding the need to self call a foul didn't apply.

Perhaps it was one of a dozen other reasons but ultimately in the end....they are her reasons.
It is not reasonable to single out a single player over such a trivial event and hold it up to the light for praise any more than we should view the other side of the coin and scrutinize it.

If you admire Alison then admire her for her accomplishments, her professional demeanor and the contributions she has made to the sport......Celebrate that.

Don't single her out and make her the poster child of "self called" fouls.
 
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Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
#1 reason why...So CW could include a short statement about how he "coached" Allison in "several world events"! Please...like she wasn't already a many time world champion, who needs coaching from CW. :boring2: Just more self-aggrandizement if you ask me. :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Why is this a front page story on the Dragon Promotions page??
..
 

MOJOE

Work Hard, Be Humble. jbk
Silver Member
#1 reason why...So CW could include a short statement about how he "coached" Allison in "several world events"! Please...like she wasn't already a many time world champion, who needs coaching from CW. :boring2: Just more self-aggrandizement if you ask me. :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I was thinking the same thing when I read that article!
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Placing trust in a referee to adequately execute the position's functions is not equal to cheating, it is respecting the position by giving it the authority that should accompany the responsibility.
 

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
If the ref wants to accept what the player said, then fine, although I disagree with this tact. But the final call belongs to the referee presiding over the match.

Who ever said it didn't?
No match has ever proceeded where one player's claim overrode the ref's call, against the ref's will.

If I were the referee I would only accept what I directly witnessed or could logically reason based on the circumstances. This way, none of the players could be erroneously accused of cheating. Sometimes the player didn't see that they fouled. Should they be accused of cheating because they didn't turn them self in? How do they prove they didn't notice it? Where does it end?

Actually it ends pretty quickly and easily and without any special difficulty.
This is not a problem that needs "fixing".

Seated player: "the shooter fouled."
Shooter: "No I didn't."
Ref: "I didn't see it. Carry on."

Play then proceeds, with the seated player sulking.
And maybe the public thinks of the shooter as a cheater and maybe they don't.
But that's just the court of public opinion and has no impact whatsoever on the tournament.

You're saying that, for some reason,
you'd handle self-reporting differently than every pool ref in history:

Shooter: "I touched the cue ball."
Ref: "No you didn't. Carry on."
Seated player: "WHAT?!?!!?"

Which one do you think will lead to more problems and meltdowns?


This discussion over "self calling" a foul has been beaten to death numerous times in this forum. The fact that a notable pro self called a foul does not some how give the defenders of this practice a credible saint to follow and promote their agenda.
[snip]
Don't single her out and make her the poster child of "self called" fouls.

Your choice of words is funny. "Agenda".
What exactly is the "Agenda" you see here?
What underlying motives do you think people have when they praise self-reporting fouls?

I prefer self-calling because I think it's the right way to play pool,
and it's better for the game's image and for ensuring a fair outcome of the match.
It's not because I have an "Agenda".

If someone gives me back an extra 10 dollars in change, I give them back the extra 10.
Do I have a change-giving-back agenda? Do I have some secret plan to screw up the cashier or his employer?

Agenda. lol.

There's no "agenda" rick, there's simply people who think failing to do this is wrong and cheating.
Allison probably would agree. I don't think she'd object at all to being a poster child for honest sportsmanlike play.
If she does, she'll let us know.


Pool would be the only sport i can think of, when you have a referee, you still call a foul on yourself. I can imagine Lebron James walking over to a ref and saying "i traveled on that last dunk, please take the two points away." And no, golf doesn't have referees monitoring every single shot.

With that said, it is refreshing to see this show of integrity from such a great, classy player.

It's what I'd expect from her. For the record there are famous instances of golfers self-reporting fouls both
with and without a ref.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I see the symmetry of your argument, but I'm not sure I agree.
If the referee misses a foul, an honest player should call on themselves despite the asymmetry.
JMO.
Do the rules prohibit - or encourage - calling foul on yourself in the presence of a referee?

My stance on this is the honest player is put at a disadvantage if the opponent is dishonest. I too have called fouls on myself but I understand the argument against it.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Very, very classy Allison!
fing24.gif



110313a.jpg



Story here --> http://www.dragonpromotions.com/news/11032013a.html

Not surprised ''at all''. Great players have respect, for their peers and the game itself.
 

Ponytail

...it's about consistency
Silver Member
I applaud Allison's integrity, however, when a referee is presiding over a match, the referee needs to make the call. Allison had every right to turn to the ref and say that she believed that she may have fouled and ask the ref for a call. If the ref is unsure or didn't see it, I think they have to let it go.

These are things that have to be clear before the tournament starts. You can't just assign someone to preside over a match without discussing possible scenarios ahead of time.

I used to referee some of the major 14.1 and 9 Ball championships, and the rule of the day always was that if a ref is presiding over a match, the ref, and not the player has to make the call.

If you commit a foul, it's a foul. It's not a legal hit unless it's seen by a ref, then it's a foul. The players know the rules. If they commit a foul, there should be no reason why they can't freely admit it.

So, if she did not declare the foul that she knew she committed, and ended up winning the match, would that not have been cheating? Getting away with a foul isn't playing by the rules.
 

Ponytail

...it's about consistency
Silver Member
No, it shouldn't. Because if players are required to call fouls on themselves the games would become unplayable when the player(s) continually call fouls themselves against the opposing players. You can't allow one player(s) to call fouls without allowing the other. Total chaos.

Have you noticed in these type of threads that those claiming other players foul without calling it never have the least doubt that what they thought they saw is unquestionably correct?

Take away the "Required". The standard should be when playing a game to find out who's the best, you should be ethical enough to say that you committed a foul.

I require it of myself. I'm the one that has to know that I didn't actually win, but I cheated instead. So that's the standard I play by.
 

leto1776

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
She had a reason...

Which she gave when she was commentating with Vivian during the Han/K Fisher match. She said I just don't want to win that way." Meaning, knowing she had fouled but didn't face any blowback from it. She's a champion, and has the integrity of one.

This discussion over "self calling" a foul has been beaten to death numerous times in this forum. The fact that a notable pro self called a foul does not some how give the defenders of this practice a credible saint to follow and promote their agenda. Otherwise we can pull the footage from other pros who didn't self call a foul to justify other perspectives. The publics memory is short and in the end it's the performer that we admire, not the controversies over behavior regarding an unwritten rule.

None of us will ever know Allison's reason for calling the foul.....

Perhaps she just felt it was the right thing for her.......not you and not society and not because there's some unwritten rule.

Perhaps the match was being filmed and eventually this type of inane controversy would come back to haunt her so it's better to just call it and avoid the hacklers.

Perhaps it's because she was playing a close friend and the normal rules or "lack there of" regarding the need to self call a foul didn't apply.

Perhaps it was one of a dozen other reasons but ultimately in the end....they are her reasons.
It is not reasonable to single out a single player over such a trivial event and hold it up to the light for praise any more than we should view the other side of the coin and scrutinize it.

If you admire Alison then admire her for her accomplishments, her professional demeanor and the contributions she has made to the sport......Celebrate that.

Don't single her out and make her the poster child of "self called" fouls.
 

leto1776

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There's no cheating until there's a rule which specifies that the active player must self-call fouls. When you falsely imply that there is you have promoted an agenda and a spurious one at that.



Allison probably wouldn't agree with you.



You don't have any right to expect that from her.

You must sell used cars for a living. Just getting that vibe.
 

shinobi

kanadajindayo
Silver Member
No, it shouldn't. Because if players are required to call fouls on themselves the games would become unplayable when the player(s) continually call fouls themselves against the opposing players. You can't allow one player(s) to call fouls without allowing the other. Total chaos.

Total chaos? Happens constantly in Snooker. No chaos whatsoever.
 
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