Champion Players have Incredible Cue Ball Control - What is Their Secret?
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
Hey CJ,
I've heard of Dan Shauger and have seen a couple of his YouTube videos. He definitely knows what he is talking about. I envy your being able to work with Dan and Hank. I wish I had access to someone of that level for my game.
In Corona, I play in my garage. I have a bar box that I bang balls on once in a while. There is Shooters, out in Riverside, but I don't make it out that direction very often. I work in Orange County, so I usually head over to Danny K's (right by Angel Stadium and Honda Center) after work and do most of my playing there. I also like to make a trip out to Hard Times Bellflower now and then. I grew up around there, so it's always nice to play a few racks after visiting family.
If you are ever in the area, and want a 4-5 hour break from the pool rooms, let me know and we can go tee it up somewhere.
Mike
Here's a TV interview (from New York City) with myself and Earl Strickland
There's a lot of golfers that are starting to play pool. 80% of the players I'm teaching play golf several times a week. When working with a player that also plays golf, tennis,martial arts, poker, etc. it's highly effective to "build a learning bridge" from one discipline to the other.
I have one golfer that worked with me for 5 weeks and went from a high run of 18 in straight pool to 56.....and his overall game shot through the roof. The one thing that really made a quick difference is when I got a golf club out and had him hold the cue the same way.....and make the same wrist/hand motion he did in golf. Suddenly he had a stroke like never before, then we simply built on this new "stroke foundation".
Pocket Billiards in many ways is a miniature version of golf and tennis. If someone doesn't play both games it obviously doesn't apply, however, if they do they can learn to play pool at an accelerated rate by applying the "learning bridge" principle.
Here's a TV interview (from New York City) with myself and Earl Strickland - notice Earl says what I just stated about the physics of the games being similar......and Earl knows because he plays all the games as well. CLICK TO SEE
www.cjwiley.com
There's a lot of golfers that are starting to play pool. 80% of the players I'm teaching play golf several times a week. When working with a player that also plays golf, tennis,martial arts, poker, etc. it's highly effective to "build a learning bridge" from one discipline to the other.
I have one golfer that worked with me for 5 weeks and went from a high run of 18 in straight pool to 56.....and his overall game shot through the roof. The one thing that really made a quick difference is when I got a golf club out and had him hold the cue the same way.....and make the same wrist/hand motion he did in golf. Suddenly he had a stroke like never before, then we simply built on this new "stroke foundation".
Pocket Billiards in many ways is a miniature version of golf and tennis. If someone doesn't play both games it obviously doesn't apply, however, if they do they can learn to play pool at an accelerated rate by applying the "learning bridge" principle.
Here's a TV interview (from New York City) with myself and Earl Strickland - notice Earl says what I just stated about the physics of the games being similar......and Earl knows because he plays all the games as well. CLICK TO SEE
www.cjwiley.com
For me it's just a matter of putting yourself in the scenario as much as possible. Those who CAN settle down and relax under pressure, generally perform better than those who can't IME. I play easily as much competitive golf as I do 'casual'. Eventually it just becomes automatic.
I agree, considerably more.
I apply mostly general concepts I'd say, things like grip pressure and muscle control. There really is only one "Full" swing in golf IMO, and that's the tee shoot. While not 100%, it's pretty dang close. But that is also the only shot in golf where you are trying to hit the ball as far as possible.
Every other swing in golf is a precisely controlled percentage. And then that's compounded by the conditions of the shot, total slope (elevation), desired shot trajectory and what I want the ball to do once it lands. Every minute error builds upon itself so your first input is paramount. My parallel there to pool, as I eluded to in my previous post, is that I prefer to have full control over the pool cue during the stroke from the back stroke, to the transition (stop) and to the forward acceleration of the cue through the ball. It's a very similar process to golf and is the number one reason most weaker golfers struggle with their short game. Most have a very hard time relaxing the correct muscle groups to allow for a smooth and highly fluid stroke at anything less than 100%. Most tend to 'bounce' off the dynamic tension they create during the backswing and then fight to control it. Often becoming jerky and/or erratic with questionable measure of metering output. This again I see very regularly in pool players.
Other than that, I apply pretty much all of my mental approach to pool or anything overly competitive really. That's really where it all starts.
People often list Buddy as a reference to the best CB control ever. However, I often wonder why he never won a world 14.1 or one pocket championship? Is there a difference between superb 9ball positioning and superb 14.1 positioning? Isn't CB control not defined by the game, but by the act of getting to where you need to go?
I'm not knocking --- I'm just asking a question because it's always puzzled me.
there's many levels of pressure
That's great if you can do this, however there's many levels of pressure and sometimes "relaxing" and allowing it to "just become automatic" is a challenging expectation to have.
The Legendary Golfer, Ben Hogan, said he liked to feel a "nervous tension" in his body - not because he was nervous, because it made his body feel more responsive under pressure.....while it may be a good goal to "relax under pressure," this is, in it's self a conflict. My suggestion it to "accept the pressure, face the pressure and use the pressure as an incentive to strengthen your pre shot routine"
Here's more of what Ben Hogan says about the importance of developing proper fundamentals.....and this ultimately will help anyone perform better "when the heat is on".
“You simply cannot bypass the fundamentals in golf any more than you can sit down at the piano without a lesson and rip off the score of My Fair Lady. Learning the grip, stance and posture clearly and well, in a way, like having to practice the scales when you are taking up piano.
In fact, the more I think about it, the best way to learn golf is a great deal like learning piano; you practice a few things daily, you arrive at a solid foundation, and then you go on to practice a few more advanced things daily, continually increasing your skill.” - Ben Hogan
That's great if you can do this, however there's many levels of pressure and sometimes "relaxing" and allowing it to "just become automatic" is a challenging expectation to have.
The Legendary Golfer, Ben Hogan, said he liked to feel a "nervous tension" in his body - not because he was nervous, because it made his body feel more responsive under pressure.....while it may be a good goal to "relax under pressure," this is, in it's self a conflict. My suggestion it to "accept the pressure, face the pressure and use the pressure as an incentive to strengthen your pre shot routine"
Here's more of what Ben Hogan says about the importance of developing proper fundamentals.....and this ultimately will help anyone perform better "when the heat is on".
“You simply cannot bypass the fundamentals in golf any more than you can sit down at the piano without a lesson and rip off the score of My Fair Lady. Learning the grip, stance and posture clearly and well, in a way, like having to practice the scales when you are taking up piano.
In fact, the more I think about it, the best way to learn golf is a great deal like learning piano; you practice a few things daily, you arrive at a solid foundation, and then you go on to practice a few more advanced things daily, continually increasing your skill.” - Ben Hogan
CJ - You're the 5-out over Earl in front of a camera. At least. Well spoken, well presented, good looking and always w/ a smile.
Superb cueball control.
Superb cueball control is not the only thing needed to excel at those other games.
Just like in 9 ball, you can have great cueball control to within a couple of inches, but if you make the wrong choices a mm will be enough to screw you.
I'm DEFINITELY not saying that Buddy made the wrong decisions in one hole and 14.1, just saying that it's more than just cueball control.
I have excellent cueball control but struggled with one hole for a long time because of how I played it, not knowing any better.
Jaden
Superb cueball control is not the only thing needed to excel at those other games.
Just like in 9 ball, you can have great cueball control to within a couple of inches, but if you make the wrong choices a mm will be enough to screw you.
I'm DEFINITELY not saying that Buddy made the wrong decisions in one hole and 14.1, just saying that it's more than just cueball control.
I have excellent cueball control but struggled with one hole for a long time because of how I played it, not knowing any better.
Jaden
."he would scare ya even if you were fearless" - CJ Wiley
Buddy Hall was one of the best One Pocket players of all time! He beat Efren more times than Efren beat him in tournaments if I'm not mistaken. I have a video of them playing and Buddy squeezes the life out of Efren and never gives him any air.
Here is an article about Buddy Hall's One Pocket prowess: CLICK FOR MORE
Buddy met the undercover Banks Hall of Fame legend Vernon Elliott when Buddy was AWOL from the service for a few months in 1968. They first hooked up in Louisville, where Vernon took a liking to Buddy and the two of them went on the road for a couple of months before Buddy returned to the service. “Vernon would play anybody; he’d play them 9-ball, Bank Pool, One Pocket, whatever; he’d play all games. He could do the weirdest shots you ever saw in your life; I couldn't believe the shots that he could make playing Bank Pool. He took me under his arm and treated me like a brother. I loved Vernon; he was a really good friend of mine for years.”
Buddy spent a lot of time with another One Pocket Hall of Famer, the great Eddie Taylor in Shreveport starting in about 1975, when both of them lived in the same area and frequented the same poolroom owned by Red Box. The two of them played a lot of friendly One Pocket during those years, which really helped Buddy get a feel for the game, but One Pocket did not become his game of choice until years later. Back then, because he played such great 9-Ball, according to Buddy “There were very few players that I gambled with playing One Pocket. Every time I played somebody I just felt like I was cheatin’ myself by not playing 9-Ball.”
However, all that changed for good after Buddy had moved to Tampa, Florida in the early 90’s and One Pocket began to develop into his best game. “My One Pocket game really came along right there; I started playing it at a different level.”
The first One Pocket tournament Buddy ever won was actually the US Open One Pocket, held in 1979 as a ‘satellite’ event alongside the Behrman’s US Open 9-Ball that year. He also won:
• 1998 World One Pocket Championships in Baton Rouge
• Derby City One Pocket division in 2001
Buddy was inducted into the BCA Hall of Fame in 2000. He is one of just a handful of players that are in both the One Pocket HOF and the BCA HOF.
Buddy Hall was one of the best One Pocket players of all time! He beat Efren more times than Efren beat him in tournaments if I'm not mistaken. I have a video of them playing and Buddy squeezes the life out of Efren and never gives him any air.
Here is an article about Buddy Hall's One Pocket prowess: CLICK FOR MORE
Buddy met the undercover Banks Hall of Fame legend Vernon Elliott when Buddy was AWOL from the service for a few months in 1968. They first hooked up in Louisville, where Vernon took a liking to Buddy and the two of them went on the road for a couple of months before Buddy returned to the service. “Vernon would play anybody; he’d play them 9-ball, Bank Pool, One Pocket, whatever; he’d play all games. He could do the weirdest shots you ever saw in your life; I couldn't believe the shots that he could make playing Bank Pool. He took me under his arm and treated me like a brother. I loved Vernon; he was a really good friend of mine for years.”
Buddy spent a lot of time with another One Pocket Hall of Famer, the great Eddie Taylor in Shreveport starting in about 1975, when both of them lived in the same area and frequented the same poolroom owned by Red Box. The two of them played a lot of friendly One Pocket during those years, which really helped Buddy get a feel for the game, but One Pocket did not become his game of choice until years later. Back then, because he played such great 9-Ball, according to Buddy “There were very few players that I gambled with playing One Pocket. Every time I played somebody I just felt like I was cheatin’ myself by not playing 9-Ball.”
However, all that changed for good after Buddy had moved to Tampa, Florida in the early 90’s and One Pocket began to develop into his best game. “My One Pocket game really came along right there; I started playing it at a different level.”
The first One Pocket tournament Buddy ever won was actually the US Open One Pocket, held in 1979 as a ‘satellite’ event alongside the Behrman’s US Open 9-Ball that year. He also won:
• 1998 World One Pocket Championships in Baton Rouge
• Derby City One Pocket division in 2001
Buddy was inducted into the BCA Hall of Fame in 2000. He is one of just a handful of players that are in both the One Pocket HOF and the BCA HOF.
playing Buddy Hall One pocket
Yes, I agree, Buddy made very few "wrong decisions" playing any game.
Ask Efren, Nick Varner, Shannon Dalton or Allen Hopkins about playing Buddy Hall One pocket and see what they say. I'll bet they'll all agree he's one of the last ones they'd choose to play in the finals of a major tournament.
Yes, I agree, Buddy made very few "wrong decisions" playing any game.
Ask Efren, Nick Varner, Shannon Dalton or Allen Hopkins about playing Buddy Hall One pocket and see what they say.
I'll bet they'll all agree he's one of the last ones they'd choose to play in the finals of a major tournament.Buddy did become a great One-Pocket player. But I'm not aware of him ever even attempting to play competitive 14.1. I always thought that, with his great cue ball, he could have been one of the best 14.1 players ever. But I guess it never appealed to him. Or maybe it was a money thing with him, too -- spend his time on disciplines with greater prospects of monetary reward. Certainly as a road player, 14.1 is not where he'd want to spend his time.
As written before I believe that a consistent speed of delivering the cue is important
different players may have different speeds. This can only help your rhythm
My fellow player in my team, took some lessons from Terry Griftths, the first thing he noticed was
that he did not move the position of his butt hand.
It was suggested to him that he should move his hand along the butt to a degree for softer shots and more to the back end of the butt for power shots, thus helping to maintain a consistent speed
I hope this makes sense.
different players may have different speeds. This can only help your rhythm
My fellow player in my team, took some lessons from Terry Griftths, the first thing he noticed was
that he did not move the position of his butt hand.
It was suggested to him that he should move his hand along the butt to a degree for softer shots and more to the back end of the butt for power shots, thus helping to maintain a consistent speed
I hope this makes sense.
Not much on Youtube but a few old videos of Buddy playing 1p.
Buddy vs. Efren:
http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/store.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=000594
http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/store.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1117688306
Buddy and the Miz:
http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/store.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=000545
http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/store.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=000532
Old Buddy vs. Young Shane:
http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/store.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1204670427
Buddy vs. Jeremy Jones... looks like JJ lost some weight (and hair):
http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/store.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=000515
Some other potentially good matches... vs cliff joyner, billy I, grady.
Buddy vs. Efren:
http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/store.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=000594
http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/store.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1117688306
Buddy and the Miz:
http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/store.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=000545
http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/store.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=000532
Old Buddy vs. Young Shane:
http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/store.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1204670427
Buddy vs. Jeremy Jones... looks like JJ lost some weight (and hair):
http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/store.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=000515
Some other potentially good matches... vs cliff joyner, billy I, grady.
I agree, considerably more.
I apply mostly general concepts I'd say, things like grip pressure and muscle control. There really is only one "Full" swing in golf IMO, and that's the tee shoot. While not 100%, it's pretty dang close. But that is also the only shot in golf where you are trying to hit the ball as far as possible.
Every other swing in golf is a precisely controlled percentage. And then that's compounded by the conditions of the shot, total slope (elevation), desired shot trajectory and what I want the ball to do once it lands. Every minute error builds upon itself so your first input is paramount. My parallel there to pool, as I eluded to in my previous post, is that I prefer to have full control over the pool cue during the stroke from the back stroke, to the transition (stop) and to the forward acceleration of the cue through the ball. It's a very similar process to golf and is the number one reason most weaker golfers struggle with their short game. Most have a very hard time relaxing the correct muscle groups to allow for a smooth and highly fluid stroke at anything less than 100%. Most tend to 'bounce' off the dynamic tension they create during the backswing and then fight to control it. Often becoming jerky and/or erratic with questionable measure of metering output. This again I see very regularly in pool players.
Other than that, I apply pretty much all of my mental approach to pool or anything overly competitive really. That's really where it all starts.
There are plenty of full swing golf shots in fact the better golfers swing is exactly the same thru out the bag even to the SW that way the distances are easily predictable
Also the left side is dominate in a golf swing the less right hand the better unlike pool where the left hand is still
I keep hearing all these comparisons to golf but I see very little of it being the same
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moving your "butt hand" in conjunction with this effecting your bridge length
Yes, moving your "butt hand" in conjunction with this effecting your bridge length is the key.....they must move together to create the maximum benefit.
When you move your butt hand and leave your bridge the same it will cause some issues that would take me some time to explain.....just make sure they are connected and you'll be fine and it will help with many of your finesse type shots.
Yes, moving your "butt hand" in conjunction with this effecting your bridge length is the key.....they must move together to create the maximum benefit.
When you move your butt hand and leave your bridge the same it will cause some issues that would take me some time to explain.....just make sure they are connected and you'll be fine and it will help with many of your finesse type shots.
I find golf putting to be similar to the pool stroke. Pendulum stroke. Straight back, straight through, smooth tempo, accelerating stroke, stroke length changes depending on the length of the shot, speed of the green.
Well IMO your pretty far off from your understanding of high level golf. But it's not a big deal either way.
My comparisons were 'my' comparisons and how I do it and see it. From a golf prospective, I've been at it for many decades and have been fortunate to make a pretty comfortable living from it.
I honestly would never expect CJ to acknowledge any theories not for sale on one of his DVDs,
It's pretty par for the course for one to just hit up Google till they find random applicable quotes now a days, there are tons out there for the choosing. Of course we all know there is only one way to do anything....as long as that way can be packaged and shipped. I just figured I'd share a contrasting view anyways.
FWIW......which apparently was very little. At least I didn't have to insinuate degradation or insult in the process.
Well IMO your pretty far off from your understanding of high level golf. But it's not a big deal either way.
My comparisons were 'my' comparisons and how I do it and see it. From a golf prospective, I've been at it for many decades and have been fortunate to make a pretty comfortable living from it.
I honestly would never expect CJ to acknowledge any theories not for sale on one of his DVDs,
I just figured I'd share a contrasting view anyways.
FWIW......which apparently was very little. At least I didn't have to insinuate degradation or insult in the process.
Well I didn't make a living at it but it didn't just pluck my views from the sky either I played pretty well as low a 4 for yrs ,, the only time I was not gripping and ripping was from 80 yrds in and around the greens ,, and I did sleep at a holiday in last night:grin:
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