Bonus ball the truth

[StraightPoolIU]

Based on some comments I read on FB today from a disillusioned player I'm pretty sure Bonus Ball is finally kaput. I'm not sure what the point was of taping these extra matches or why the players even bothered to come back since it has been such a financial loss and a complete effort in futility.

 

[jpparmentier]

Based on some comments I read on FB today from a disillusioned player I'm pretty sure Bonus Ball is finally kaput. I'm not sure what the point was of taping these extra matches or why the players even bothered to come back since it has been such a financial loss and a complete effort in futility.

They came to Vegas because they had to, in order to get paid.

I do remember Barry lagging reeaaally long on US Open payments, but I don't think any of the players ever had to fly back to Chesapeake at their expenses to get what they were owed.

Two different ways to deal with pool players, both work(ed).


Or you have the "Mark Griffin way":
- set up events for the pro players that are not as profitable as your amateur events
- set "late fees" to ensure you know who comes, make your plans accordingly.
- pay everybody right after the event
- get yelled at, treated like trash on facebook.

Way to go Mark!

 

[justadub]

Wouldn't Michela be in Vegas next month for the Mosconi Cup? This seems to be good timing for her to come a little early, and (supposedly) get paid for it.

Especially if she didn't have anything else going on till The Cup.

I agree that BB is benefiting far more than she is, but if she wanted a (supposedly) paid holiday in Vegas before The Cup, good for her. She won't be stained by association when it all goes down.

 

[Neil]

Wouldn't Michela be in Vegas next month for the Mosconi Cup? This seems to be good timing for her to come a little early, and (supposedly) get paid for it.

Especially if she didn't have anything else going on till The Cup.

I agree that BB is benefiting far more than she is, but if she wanted a (supposedly) paid holiday in Vegas before The Cup, good for her. She won't be stained by association when it all goes down.

Actually, she just might have the best of both worlds going on. If some television station picks it up, she is seen and the business is a success. If no one picks up the tapes, no one but us will even know she had any part of it. Kind of a win-win for her right now.

 

[Kid Dynomite]

All these post and no answers to the REAL questions!

#1. Who are the investors?
#2. How are the investors going to respond/react to the way they lost their money?
#3. You lose money like this and behave this badly with the players and staff, it makes you wonder what he told the investors?

I just hope he did NOT have investors cause if you messed up my money like this, the players would be the least of his worries. Plus, investors usually have enough money and resources to really hurt a guy.

Kd

 

[NYC cue dude]

Wouldn't Michela be in Vegas next month for the Mosconi Cup? This seems to be good timing for her to come a little early, and (supposedly) get paid for it.

Especially if she didn't have anything else going on till The Cup.

I agree that BB is benefiting far more than she is, but if she wanted a (supposedly) paid holiday in Vegas before The Cup, good for her. She won't be stained by association when it all goes down.

She's got "other" things going on, namely her children. Michaela isn't kickin about for the next month or so. She'll be returning home straight away.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

BB's whiz self appointed marketing director did a bang up job of alienating the majority of potential viewers from AZ.

 

[pro9dg]

Excellent post Doug. I wish I would have wrote this myself! I feel 100% the same.

JP, it is a refreshing change to see someone like you posting here. You have that rare quality of actually knowing what you are talking about.

SJM is one of the most knowledgeable regulars here but his assessment of Michaela's involvement was well taken apart by you.

It seems like both the UK and Europe are having a massive influence on pool in the USA.
Daryl Peach, Darren Appleton and Karl Boyes have all won recent World Championships. Now the need our referees to give credibility to events. Lee is making big inroads to his nationwide lessons trek. Tony Crosby runs a successful upscale tour and Allison, Kelly and Karen have carved a swathe through the Ladies game.
Add Ralf, Thorsten and Mika's achievements and then cap it all Barry Hearn is about to enter The Hall of Fame.
No doubt the next big European success will be the JP Parmentier Photo Galleries) and that is not including the Mosconi Cup). Perhaps you could arrange to bring a hologram of the Cup so the Americans can remember what it looks like.

 

[lee brett]

JP, it is a refreshing change to see someone like you posting here. You have that rare quality of actually knowing what you are talking about.

JP's post are refreshing and say the truth in a pleasant way, he is very genuine and very knowledgeable, a great asset to the pool world. Keep up the great work Sir.

Doug hope you are well and doing a lot better these days with your health. I learnt my lessons from what has happened and went back to what i do best.

 

[Mark Griffin]

Bonus Ball the truth

JP, thanks for comments. Probably my biggest disappointment is the treatment I received by some of premier pool players in this country.

I have thick skin - but it is so frustrating when you see so many of the same people (and cliques) acting how they do. This is in reference to both public and private comets and actions. As we all know, there are no secrets in the pool world.

I am starting to wind down some of my ventures. I honestly feel I can hold my head high in the billiard arena. I NEVER failed to deliver - yet the players would rather follow controversial, ethically challenged pied pipers.

I believe many of them deserve each other.

We aren't quitting - but will just 'look' a little different.

Mark Griffin

They came to Vegas because they had to, in order to get paid.

I do remember Barry lagging reeaaally long on US Open payments, but I don't think any of the players ever had to fly back to Chesapeake at their expenses to get what they were owed.

Two different ways to deal with pool players, both work(ed).


Or you have the "Mark Griffin way":
- set up events for the pro players that are not as profitable as your amateur events
- set "late fees" to ensure you know who comes, make your plans accordingly.
- pay everybody right after the event
- get yelled at, treated like trash on facebook.

Way to go Mark!

 

[NYC cue dude]

JP, thanks for comments. Probably my biggest disappointment is the treatment I received by some of premier pool players in this country.

I have thick skin - but it is so frustrating when you see so many of the same people (and cliques) acting how they do. This is in reference to both public and private comets and actions. As we all know, there are no secrets in the pool world.

I am starting to wind down some of my ventures. I honestly feel I can hold my head high in the billiard arena. I NEVER failed to deliver - yet the players would rather follow controversial, ethically challenged pied pipers.

I believe many of them deserve each other.

We aren't quitting - but will just 'look' a little different.

Mark Griffin

Works for me. Invitational is the ONLY way to go.

 

[Neil]

JP, thanks for comments. Probably my biggest disappointment is the treatment I received by some of premier pool players in this country.

I have thick skin - but it is so frustrating when you see so many of the same people (and cliques) acting how they do. This is in reference to both public and private comets and actions. As we all know, there are no secrets in the pool world.

I am starting to wind down some of my ventures. I honestly feel I can hold my head high in the billiard arena. I NEVER failed to deliver - yet the players would rather follow controversial, ethically challenged pied pipers.

I believe many of them deserve each other.

We aren't quitting - but will just 'look' a little different.

Mark Griffin

Who said the ABP has had no impact??

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Attitude Adjustments all around. Mark is buying.

Good stuff as usual Mark.

When the invitations go out and some of the hot shots get left out, maybe they will see
their profession in a different light.

Of course, it will always be someone elses fault but life goes on, with or without ya.

 

[jpparmentier]

JP, it is a refreshing change to see someone like you posting here. You have that rare quality of actually knowing what you are talking about.

SJM is one of the most knowledgeable regulars here but his assessment of Michaela's involvement was well taken apart by you.

It seems like both the UK and Europe are having a massive influence on pool in the USA.
Daryl Peach, Darren Appleton and Karl Boyes have all won recent World Championships. Now the need our referees to give credibility to events. Lee is making big inroads to his nationwide lessons trek. Tony Crosby runs a successful upscale tour and Allison, Kelly and Karen have carved a swathe through the Ladies game.
Add Ralf, Thorsten and Mika's achievements and then cap it all Barry Hearn is about to enter The Hall of Fame.
No doubt the next big European success will be the JP Parmentier Photo Galleries) and that is not including the Mosconi Cup). Perhaps you could arrange to bring a hologram of the Cup so the Americans can remember what it looks like.

Thanks Doug, I'm glad I got to work on AZB and we have a lot of plans for the future. Working with the EPBF and Kozoom was interesting but it involved too many things that 'you can't talk about'. Both entities run on many scams and lies, and I find it easier to work with people with whom I don't have to think twice before I speak.

Something that I'm really sad about talking about European achievements is Ortmann not being elected to the BCA Hall of Fame. And Parica too, for Asia.

To me these two were the leaders of a bunch of others who came after. And while I'm very happy with Ralf or Efren voted to the Hall, I don't understand why the pioneers are left on the side. They both had great achievements on US soil.

 

[jpparmentier]

Works for me. Invitational is the ONLY way to go.

There are a LOT of venture which are bigger than the players in this industry:
- The US Open 9-Ball has run with or without big names over the years (only Lee Vann and Warren came this year, no other Filipinos)
- The Mosconi Cup has ran without Earl, Mika, Ralf a few years. it will run without Thorsten this year and could run with virtually any teams given its popularity.

...Many other examples out there of tournaments running without the top names, and still achieving decent media coverage and credibility.


Then you have other ventures that need big names to be tied to them:
- The 14/1 World Tournament hasn't been the same without the WPA sanctioning, and would have no credibility in the absence of Thorsten Hohmann. It would be like running a 100m without Usain Bolt.

...And finally, Bonus Ball was THE venture that needed the players more than any other. It stated that it wasn't pool (a new game) yet employed big names together with their tags "world champion", "us open champion" etc...

And they are doing it again with Michaela by dragging her onto their set, which appears like they are some kind of equals to the big TV shows out there (Matchroom's Snooker and Pool events).

The players failed to understand the situation from this point of view and were treated like BB was a bigger name than theirs. Which never was, and never will be the case. They could have been much more aggressive to Chiborak and unveiled this whole failed business plan in a couple of days, avoiding the train wreck.


Considering this, invitationals are the best way to ensure 100% control of your event, and in such a small industry it's indeed the only way to go when you don't want to be disappointed.

 

[Mr. Bond]

The players failed to understand the situation from this point of view and were treated like BB was a bigger name than theirs. Which never was, and never will be the case. They could have been much more aggressive to Chiborak and unveiled this whole failed business plan in a couple of days, avoiding the train wreck.

Agreed

Considering this, invitationals are the best way to ensure 100% control of your event, and in such a small industry it's indeed the only way to go when you don't want to be disappointed.

Agreed.

But it's not that a players association is inherently evil...

 

[pro9dg]

Thanks Doug, I'm glad I got to work on AZB and we have a lot of plans for the future. Working with the EPBF and Kozoom was interesting but it involved too many things that 'you can't talk about'. Both entities run on many scams and lies, and I find it easier to work with people with whom I don't have to think twice before I speak.

Something that I'm really sad about talking about European achievements is Ortmann not being elected to the BCA Hall of Fame. And Parica too, for Asia.

To me these two were the leaders of a bunch of others who came after. And while I'm very happy with Ralf or Efren voted to the Hall, I don't understand why the pioneers are left on the side. They both had great achievements on US soil.

Why am I not surprised that the EPBF is a corrupt organisation. I have always believed that to be the case.

I agree with the HOF situation and it is surely only a matter of time before this
situation is redressed.
Ralf without Oliver is like Tom without Jerry. As for Jose then it is cue Jam for that one.

 

[JAM]

...As for Jose then it is cue Jam for that one.

You rang? :grin-square:

I have a lot of things I could say about Jose Parica as it pertains to the BCA's Hall of Fame, but the way things are today in the American pool world, Doug, anything I would write would be a futility in effort.

In recent times, after observing how grown men with big egos cling onto the testicles of other grown men, whether right or wrong, and then follow them like the trained little pigs that they are, it has allowed me to see more clearly what's happening.

So rather than have my words denied, ripped apart, or pooh-poohed upon by the multiple-identitied trolls, banned members posting, and testicle danglers, to include the Sasquatch men with big egos and little digits -- [The above is not directed at any one person in particular, but if you think it applies to you, then you are probably right] -- I feel that nobody could explain the impact of Jose Parica better than Keith McCready:

My foster father, Bob Wallace, owned a poolroom known as Hard Times in Newport Beach, the surfing mecca of the world. My favorite pastime when I wasn’t playing pool was fishing for shark and bonito at the pier. I was in the prime of my young career and used to boldly wear a T-shirt emblazoned with the words "The World's Got the 8," which was an open invitation to any living being on the face of the Earth.

Unbeknownst to me, the legendary "Filipino Invasion" was about to unfold, and I will never forget the first time I laid my eyes on the first wave to hit the shore: Jose "Amang" Parica.

Jose drifted in the side door of Hard Times unnoticed and abruptly parked himself on the rail. I checked him out in my peripheral vision while hitting balls, as he gingerly sipped on a hot cup of tea. And it wasn’t long before we exchanged eyeball contact.

Small in stature, he sure didn’t look like a pool player to me, wearing those hard leather shoes and a designer Ralph Lauren polo shirt tucked neatly in his pressed black khakis. So when he
politely asked me for the break playing 9-ball, I had no fear and readily gave it to him, not realizing who or what he was.

As the games progressed and I observed Jose’s shotmaking capabilities, I sensed a shark in the water. He moved the balls with grace and a perfect touch, and if he missed, I was staring at a safety or an impossible shot. It became clear that I was in a trap when the fickle railbirds, seeing me wounded, began to line up and bet against me. The final nail in my coffin was the inside floater, a shot Jose makes effortlessly to this very day.

Only a moment before Jose "Amang" Parica walked into my life, I considered myself invincible, like the novice surfer. But when I faced him on the field of green that day, there was something in his eyes that made me realize he could look on heights beyond my gaze, a characteristic of true champions. People say that he started the invasion, but I think they got it wrong. Jose "Amang" Parica actually was the invasion.

Of course, Jose belongs in the BCA's Hall of Fame, but if you think about it, the BCA isn't worth much these days as it pertains to pool, is it? So who cares anymore? The pool purists, so they can vote in their emotionless robotic darlings? The industry members, so they can vote in the dancing monkey who puts the most money in their pockets?

Keith and Jose have played against each other and as partners. They remain good friends today.

 

[lee brett]

Quote JP:
And they are doing it again with Michaela by dragging her onto their set, which appears like they are some kind of equals to the big TV shows out there (Matchroom's Snooker and Pool events).

The players failed to understand the situation from this point of view and were treated like BB was a bigger name than theirs. Which never was, and never will be the case. They could have been much more aggressive to Chiborak and unveiled this whole failed business plan in a couple of days, avoiding the train wreck.


From seeing it all from the inside, and the complete train wreck it is. From not testing the internet stream before it started, to no people skills from some of the so called people in charge, who then say speak to Larry. No marketing and expect it to work, and then you try help them and you get speak to Larry.

They should of got a professional production crew to film and produce this and hired a professional marketing firm, and a professional camera crew, not Dave missing shots as he doesn't know what he is doing.

Maybe then they wouldn't be the next big failure in pool, as we all know its a matter of time before it ends. And Larry, Nathan and Dave go back to Canada and are never involved in pool again in America.

 

[jpparmentier]

Quote JP:
And they are doing it again with Michaela by dragging her onto their set, which appears like they are some kind of equals to the big TV shows out there (Matchroom's Snooker and Pool events).

The players failed to understand the situation from this point of view and were treated like BB was a bigger name than theirs. Which never was, and never will be the case. They could have been much more aggressive to Chiborak and unveiled this whole failed business plan in a couple of days, avoiding the train wreck.


From seeing it all from the inside, and the complete train wreck it is. From not testing the internet stream before it started, to no people skills from some of the so called people in charge, who then say speak to Larry. No marketing and expect it to work, and then you try help them and you get speak to Larry.

They should of got a professional production crew to film and produce this and hired a professional marketing firm, and a professional camera crew, not Dave missing shots as he doesn't know what he is doing.

Maybe then they wouldn't be the next big failure in pool, as we all know its a matter of time before it ends. And Larry, Nathan and Dave go back to Canada and are never involved in pool again in America.

Thanks for your insider's input Lee.

Seen from the outside, it looked like a few talented people were on the crew. But as time went by, they were isolated more and more by their own choices to do everything on their own. We interviewed Nathan for AZB and proposed many ways to highlight their venture but any info we needed took multiple contacts and days to get.

They turned down more than a few people offering to help and refused to blend in the industry. Clearly, they were too good for it.

Some people have failed in the past and come back to be better. But from what we have all experienced, I really hope Nathan would not try to work in this industry again. Sadly he's already got enough to make people forget about the Bonus Ball debacle, namely the Venom Trickshots II video coming soon. And people interested in this product have no clue what Bonus Ball is, simply because nobody has ever heard of it outside of these forums. Believe me, I travel enough to say this is 100% accurate.


It's a tough call because the guy's created some good stuff, but for all the judgmental calls he's made and the attitude he had with everybody when he thought he was in a power position, I think he should just apply for a position as an astronaut on the ISS, which would place him far away enough from us, at least from my pov.

Some people do not deserve any dime they make in this industry, and Nathan and Larry join the group of McKeys etc...

They have caused more harm to this industry than the money they will ever generate for it. End of.