Article by Badi Nazhat

[Bella Don't Cry]

IDEA: OFFICIAL USA POOL PLAYER MOVEMENT

It’s quite clear that pool players worldwide need to voice, so let’s cut to the chase…

The movement should be conceived through the notion of wanting to make change for the good of the game. So we need the following (please add):

1. REGULAR MEETINGS: This should consist of;
Face to face, tele-meetings and internet chat rooms. We have in place -
AZBILLIARDS = FREE and supportive of the pool player
SKYPE = FREE
EXISTING MAJOR EVENTS -
I suggest that regular meetings take place at gatherings such as The DCC, The SBE and The BCAPL Finals (I’m sure others could be used). Pool players should agree on a location and time to carry out a productive 2-3 hours meeting which should be chaired and minuted by accepted volunteers. On a personal note, I may be able to attend 1 or 2 meetings in person - failing that I would be available for SKYPE meetings.

2. A RECRUITMENT POLICY - Get as many people to sign up and be members. Membership is FREE to the first 1000 members. Thereafter membership costs $1 usd. HIS IS NOT REVENUE GENERATED for the initial set up.

3. SET REAL AGENDA’S WITH REAL OUTCOMES - First meeting should be driven to outline the movements NAME, objectives, terms and conditions and a proposed PLAN OF ACTION in the form of an official REPORT.

4. OFFICIAL WEBSITE & SOCIAL MEDIAS - for al latest news and developments.
Website cost = $0.00 I will donate my time to build a website and maintain it upon the official membership target of 1000 members has been hit. This is to NOT WASTE ANYONE’S TIME AND EFFORTS.

HTC- HERE”S TO CHANGE
Once a target of 1000 members has been hit, new proposals and targets should be set in place. There is an opportunity of sponsorship here as you can read above, I have lifted HTC’S slogan. Nothing is guaranteed but at least this shows direction. With a MASTER PLAN and a following, I remain positive that company’s will show interest in us. Numbers changes EVERYTHING!

PLEASE NOTE: This is just a sketch idea and will need YOUR support and efforts to get this off the ground. I also propose that WE invite Badi Nazhat to become the first OFFICIAL MEMBER of this movement in honour of his efforts so far to move pool in the right direction!

Also - this IS NOT an idea proposal for me to take charge or try to run this movement! It is not my intention to become the pool master of any of you. I live for the FREE WORLD.

Feel free to add, however the time is now to ACT not critic…
WHAT DO YOU THINK? - IT’S UP TO YOU, THE POOL PLAYERS NOW.

 

[336Robin]

organization

IDEA: OFFICIAL USA POOL PLAYER MOVEMENT

It’s quite clear that pool players worldwide need to voice, so let’s cut to the chase…

The movement should be conceived through the notion of wanting to make change for the good of the game. So we need the following (please add):

1. REGULAR MEETINGS: This should consist of;
Face to face, tele-meetings and internet chat rooms. We have in place -
AZBILLIARDS = FREE and supportive of the pool player
SKYPE = FREE
EXISTING MAJOR EVENTS -
I suggest that regular meetings take place at gatherings such as The DCC, The SBE and The BCAPL Finals (I’m sure others could be used). Pool players should agree on a location and time to carry out a productive 2-3 hours meeting which should be chaired and minuted by accepted volunteers. On a personal note, I may be able to attend 1 or 2 meetings in person - failing that I would be available for SKYPE meetings.

2. A RECRUITMENT POLICY - Get as many people to sign up and be members. Membership is FREE to the first 1000 members. Thereafter membership costs $1 usd. HIS IS NOT REVENUE GENERATED for the initial set up.

3. SET REAL AGENDA’S WITH REAL OUTCOMES - First meeting should be driven to outline the movements NAME, objectives, terms and conditions and a proposed PLAN OF ACTION in the form of an official REPORT.

4. OFFICIAL WEBSITE & SOCIAL MEDIAS - for al latest news and developments.
Website cost = $0.00 I will donate my time to build a website and maintain it upon the official membership target of 1000 members has been hit. This is to NOT WASTE ANYONE’S TIME AND EFFORTS.

HTC- HERE”S TO CHANGE
Once a target of 1000 members has been hit, new proposals and targets should be set in place. There is an opportunity of sponsorship here as you can read above, I have lifted HTC’S slogan. Nothing is guaranteed but at least this shows direction. With a MASTER PLAN and a following, I remain positive that company’s will show interest in us. Numbers changes EVERYTHING!

PLEASE NOTE: This is just a sketch idea and will need YOUR support and efforts to get this off the ground. I also propose that WE invite Badi Nazhat to become the first OFFICIAL MEMBER of this movement in honour of his efforts so far to move pool in the right direction!

Also - this IS NOT an idea proposal for me to take charge or try to run this movement! It is not my intention to become the pool master of any of you. I live for the FREE WORLD.

Feel free to add, however the time is now to ACT not critic…
WHAT DO YOU THINK? - IT’S UP TO YOU, THE POOL PLAYERS NOW.

Youre exactly right, its the organizing and deciding what to do that is going to be key. Im not so sure that pumping money into Pro Pool right off is the thing to do though. The sport needs a face lift not a prop up.

 

[xplor]

Signs we will never see. Welcome to the Rolex Ultimate Ten Ball Championships.

 

[JAM]

Signs we will never see. Welcome to the Rolex Ultimate Ten Ball Championships.

Hilton Hotels gave it a shot. Nobody showed up. They quit after two tournaments.

Pool needs an ambassador, one who can work with both sides, AND is a good salesperson, I guess. :wink:

 

[naji]

IDEA: OFFICIAL USA POOL PLAYER MOVEMENT

It’s quite clear that pool players worldwide need to voice, so let’s cut to the chase…

The movement should be conceived through the notion of wanting to make change for the good of the game. So we need the following (please add):

1. REGULAR MEETINGS: This should consist of;
Face to face, tele-meetings and internet chat rooms. We have in place -
AZBILLIARDS = FREE and supportive of the pool player
SKYPE = FREE
EXISTING MAJOR EVENTS -
I suggest that regular meetings take place at gatherings such as The DCC, The SBE and The BCAPL Finals (I’m sure others could be used). Pool players should agree on a location and time to carry out a productive 2-3 hours meeting which should be chaired and minuted by accepted volunteers. On a personal note, I may be able to attend 1 or 2 meetings in person - failing that I would be available for SKYPE meetings.

2. A RECRUITMENT POLICY - Get as many people to sign up and be members. Membership is FREE to the first 1000 members. Thereafter membership costs $1 usd. HIS IS NOT REVENUE GENERATED for the initial set up.

3. SET REAL AGENDA’S WITH REAL OUTCOMES - First meeting should be driven to outline the movements NAME, objectives, terms and conditions and a proposed PLAN OF ACTION in the form of an official REPORT.

4. OFFICIAL WEBSITE & SOCIAL MEDIAS - for al latest news and developments.
Website cost = $0.00 I will donate my time to build a website and maintain it upon the official membership target of 1000 members has been hit. This is to NOT WASTE ANYONE’S TIME AND EFFORTS.

HTC- HERE”S TO CHANGE
Once a target of 1000 members has been hit, new proposals and targets should be set in place. There is an opportunity of sponsorship here as you can read above, I have lifted HTC’S slogan. Nothing is guaranteed but at least this shows direction. With a MASTER PLAN and a following, I remain positive that company’s will show interest in us. Numbers changes EVERYTHING!

PLEASE NOTE: This is just a sketch idea and will need YOUR support and efforts to get this off the ground. I also propose that WE invite Badi Nazhat to become the first OFFICIAL MEMBER of this movement in honour of his efforts so far to move pool in the right direction!

Also - this IS NOT an idea proposal for me to take charge or try to run this movement! It is not my intention to become the pool master of any of you. I live for the FREE WORLD.

Feel free to add, however the time is now to ACT not critic…
WHAT DO YOU THINK? - IT’S UP TO YOU, THE POOL PLAYERS NOW.

Need lobbying power in Congress and Senate house, need US to set a budget for pool sports, or at least match donations or something, once it starts then maybe then it will be able to live on its own. I do not mind paying tax $$$ for pool or to watch my favorite show. Someone mentioned public broadcasting, but we need money to start big?

 

[xplor]

Hilton Hotels were not really sponsors. They are measuring success by room-nights. The goal is to fill the rooms when it is slow.

 

[336Robin]

Thats Business

Hilton Hotels were not really sponsors. They are measuring success by room-nights. The goal is to fill the rooms when it is slow.

Jam,
I don't know what happened with that Hilton thing but something kept people from coming and its a shame. That would have been a good fit and I don't think its entirely impossible to work something like that out if they have the space. Likely the room rate was prohibitive for this crowd.
I ve got a friend who has a hotel and still its a tough business. He cant give up Conference Room space and it hard to get him to work with me, especially when people rent it and don't complain about the price.

 

[336Robin]

Player Org/Wholesaler

As far as an Organization for Players

We aren't creating new players, that's our key problem and when numbers drop sales drop.

We are losing Rooms, Wholesalers etc.

My initial idea for an Organization revolves first around a Wholesaler Organization sort of as a Professional Level Member with higher dues and high level board sitting and voting rights.

If we aren't creating players and creating activity then those guys have it tough. If they don't make it then the really big guys start having problems moving merchandise.

I would think that a consensus of those type of Individuals should come first and then open the membership up to any player or room that wants to be a member. The function of the wholesaler group would be basically to decide on what method and level the stimulation/exposure of the market should be to let people know about pool.

After a so called Constitution were written for a plan then I think a player based organization is the only way to completely infuse the sport with money for development.

 

[JAM]

Hilton Hotels were not really sponsors. They are measuring success by room-nights. The goal is to fill the rooms when it is slow.

They were sponsors. They put up the money for the entire tour, which at the time was 10 stops, but it cut short because of lack of participation.

 

[JAM]

Jam,
I don't know what happened with that Hilton thing but something kept people from coming and its a shame. That would have been a good fit and I don't think its entirely impossible to work something like that out if they have the space. Likely the room rate was prohibitive for this crowd.
I ve got a friend who has a hotel and still its a tough business. He cant give up Conference Room space and it hard to get him to work with me, especially when people rent it and don't complain about the price.

At the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship, before the beginning of the Hilton Hotel Tour, the representative came to see what was happening, talk to pool people. The UPA at that time grabbed him and convinced him to let them be his liaison. BIG MISTAKE!

The UPA had put up big walls between them and other promoters and even the players themselves. After a low turnout in Pittsburgh, won by Shawn Putnam, Hilton Hotels pulled up and said fuggedaboutit.

 

[336Robin]

Hilton events

At the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship, before the beginning of the Hilton Hotel Tour, the representative came to see what was happening, talk to pool people. The UPA at that time grabbed him and convinced him to let them be his liaison. BIG MISTAKE!

The UPA had put up big walls between them and other promoters and even the players themselves. After a low turnout in Pittsburgh, won by Shawn Putnam, Hilton Hotels pulled up and said fuggedaboutit.

Figures jealousy and political fallout screws pool once again. Anyone willing to do anything pool ought to be welcomed.

 

[Johnnyt]

I'd like to see the promoters put an organization together with one leader. I don't think they could do it. What the players have now is a way for a few top players trying to control everything. When is Johnny Archer's and cronies terms up with the ABP. Will there be elections soon? It's hard to remove dictators from power. Johnnyt

 

[336Robin]

I'd like to see the promoters put an organization together with one leader. I don't think they could do it. What the players have now is a way for a few top players trying to control everything. When is Johnny Archer's and cronies terms up with the ABP. Will there be elections soon? It's hard to remove dictators from power. Johnnyt

One voice would be nice if someone had some sense. I do think there needs to be a larger voice for sure and Im not sure if it would ever happen but Id like to see the Billiard Wholesalers form it. Anyone who sold products, then rooms then players......everyone who benefitted from new players being created. It would not necessarily be about Pro Pool...not to say Pro Pool would be out its just the whole industry is so divided up.

In my way of thinking we have bigger problems than pro pool. We cant keep rooms open.

 

[CJ Wiley]

a strategic business and marketing plan that has a clear Mission Statement

CJ,
About promoting pool tournaments in general. You seem to have a lot of advice, but Im curious how do you see the money coming back to the promoter? Im sorry but I don't see it. We discuss doing this and that and this and that , that costs a ton of money. I haven't seen any evidence of where a producer, promoter, angel, advocate for just friend gets any of his money back. Surely you don't think "the door" is going to do it?

Especially when you talk about throwing around the weight you suggest to properly promote and all these "We suggest" statements.....who is We? and where is this flowing River of Gold if someone does what "We" says?

There's no "river of gold" that's fantasy, and there's no "white horse" going to ride in and sponsor pool.....what will be successful is creating a strategic business and marketing plan that has one initial goal and a clearly defined Mission Statement.

Let's face it, the way pool has been promoted the last 13 years doesn't work. What's happened is there's hundreds of players at the tournaments, with no spectators, this is the worst case scenario and it's happened from lack of strategic planning.

This model takes a lot of money from the players and there's very little profit for anyone - players or promoters. I don't see why anyone would put on events that lose money for the vast majority of the participants - no one in their right mind would try this in a regular business.......the "golden rule" is "never hire more people than you can pay!"

For example, a tournament of 100 players (workers) spend an average of $1000. per person on travel, room, and "other expenses".......the entree fee is usually $500.

This adds up to $150,000 put up by all the players for expenses and entree fees.

The promoter's put up $25,000 and entree fees add up to $50,000 for a total of $75,000.

So the total expenses are $150,000 Minus $75,000 for a net loss of $75,000. This means there's an average loss of $750 per player per tournament.

The only winners are the Airlines, Restaurants, Hotels, Casinos, Tournament Winners (maybe 10/12 make their money back plus enough profit to pay bills and get to the next tournament), Promoters (they are lucky to make $7500).......and the big losers? The other 90 Players.....at least 80% will lose $1500 (this is paying 25% of the field)

There should be no question that this is a very poor business model for Pro Pool tournaments. And the "kicker" is there's no TV, so the players have no way to get industry sponsors and the industry it's self suffers from lack of exposure EVERY TOURNAMENT....and over time this "Business Model" has caused the entire Billiard Industry to dip down to 50% of what it was in the 90s......and the reasons are obviously simple.......so why don't we quit doing this and try another way? I have no idea.....

The key is to use less players, make sure the event is televised and use the "magic bullet" that creates entertainment and excitement for the viewing public. This isn't that difficult, what took the most time was discovering what the magic bullet was and how it will be implemented.

Discussing the specific funding and implementation is a private matter, there's no chance this will be done by a "non profit" entity like what we attempted in the 90s......that was one mistake I won't make again, it must make profit.


'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[336Robin]

Reply

There's no "river of gold" that's fantasy, and there's no "white horse" going to ride in and sponsor pool.....what will be successful is creating a strategic business and marketing plan that has one initial goal and a clearly defined Mission Statement.

Well someone has to have one River of Gold, because due to the costs put forth in Naji's post it becomes clear that the cost of television is clearly out of the picture for promoters, the rest of the psychobabble is just that. TV, TV, TV becomes impossible if you have to pay for it. If they don't have a vested interest in being there the only option is to pay for it and it clearly off the table. For....sponsor money.....I wouldn't count on that either for an event like you describe you might get some but doubtful. Everyone is hanging onto what they've got trying to ride out the storm

Let's face it, the way pool has been promoted the last 13 years doesn't work. What's happened is there's hundreds of players at the tournaments, with no spectators, this is the worst case scenario and it's happened from lack of strategic planning.

You might be right here but it is what it is. Times have changed, the video game is king and is cheap entertainment for kids, so marketing becomes all important to the general public, which is not being done to bring in new players to the sport and it going to take some real effort to figure out how to do that with no one body who seems to care. A lot of things have contributed for us to end up with what we have today and we are playing the blame game. Its not just anyones fault. Times have changed and we have to change with the times and provide the grassroots support we need to bring pool back into a level of popularity with the general public ....without that the future is more dire than it current is ....dire. Its going to take some time, if we get a consensus on how to do it.

This model takes a lot of money from the players and there's very little profit for anyone - players or promoters. I don't see why anyone would put on events that lose money for the vast majority of the participants - no one in their right mind would try this in a regular business.......the "golden rule" is "never hire more people than you can pay!"


You are right there is no profit, this whole idea up to an including Television coverage is ludicrous because no one wants to see it, therefore we have to pay for it and its simple the money is not there.

For example, a tournament of 100 players (workers) spend an average of $1000. per person on travel, room, and "other expenses".......the entree fee is usually $500.

This adds up to $150,000 put up by all the players for expenses and entree fees.

The promoter's put up $25,000 and entree fees add up to $50,000 for a total of $75,000.

So the total expenses are $150,000 Minus $75,000 for a net loss of $75,000. This means there's an average loss of $750 per player per tournament.

The only winners are the Airlines, Restaurants, Hotels, Casinos, Tournament Winners (maybe 10/12 make their money back plus enough profit to pay bills and get to the next tournament), Promoters (they are lucky to make $7500).......and the big losers? The other 90 Players.....at least 80% will lose $1500 (this is paying 25% of the field)

There should be no question that this is a very poor business model for Pro Pool tournaments. And the "kicker" is there's no TV, so the players have no way to get industry sponsors and the industry it's self suffers from lack of exposure EVERY TOURNAMENT....and over time this "Business Model" has caused the entire Billiard Industry to dip down to 50% of what it was in the 90s......and the reasons are obviously simple.......so why don't we quit doing this and try another way? I have no idea.....

The key is to use less players, make sure the event is televised and use the "magic bullet" that creates entertainment and excitement for the viewing public. This isn't that difficult, what took the most time was discovering what the magic bullet was and how it will be implemented.

I agree with the using less players part for the entertainment scenario, the only problem here I see is the fact is that .....POOL...has fallen out of popularity....therefore any exposure we get we have to pay for. When TV crews show up because of the popularity of events......then I think we have something and I think we have a long hard way to go to get to that point.

Discussing the specific funding and implementation is a private matter, there's no chance this will be done by a "non profit" entity like what we attempted in the 90s......that was one mistake I won't make again, it must make profit.

I don't see anyone making a profit in this business private or nonprofit which is crazy, this is more like a high stakes dice game with no dots that make up 7.

You are right a business must make profit. My point is you have to consider the promoters end before you can even talk about the players end, it is an open event which is why so many people assemble to fight for the money even though most likely know its a losing venture for the majority, because of the fact that likely the event in question would be one of the few things going today to provide a chance to play for a prize. No one is hiring anyone. Its a tournament and a chance that is being taken.

If you are going to quote up numbers based on a Working Type Model...I would say that its evident that someone needs to be doing some work. In order for wages to be made someone has to deliver a product, result or something of value.

Ask yourself is that being done?

Answer yourself and you will find out the answer and the reason behind it is multi-fold, whats up is Pool is beginning a period of rapid change. If you cant satisfy people to go and play a local tournament, how in the world are you going to satisfy a bunch of people who are trying to live off tournaments as professionals?

This is a bottom up problem not a Top down one. Any solution that involves a Top Down Solution is likely going to run into problems and the reasons we can speculate on and on and on. No amount of saying TV, TV, TV is the answer is going to fix the mess we are in but......time....rebirth ...just might.

As for tournaments for the Pros. If I could find a few thousand to put up for added money, event could be held and people would come and play for it. Its a free market society and whether they make losers or winners isn't my problem. The question remains will the Promoter ever get his Added Money or Investment back? Please don't say well if you took part of the added money and hired TV cameras that would be money well spent...because you are paying TV folks with thin air or the promoter is getting stuck. It seems to me there is a reason that promoters are leaving this market. To quote a friend of mine that will remain unnamed.....there are easier ways to make money.

I agree all of this makes no sense, all I can see is something drastic is changing in front of our eyes and the solution is likely going to come in time, but we haven't found it yet. Spending money that wont come back on Television coverage is a loser. No popularity = no free coverage. Its simple. You have to figure out a draw to get them there, not promote something that isn't there, because if there isn't anyone there all the television coverage in the world becomes yet another embarrassment.'

What can be done for Professional Cue Sports in the United States? I do not know but anything that is done has to make financial sense for someone. Find that working and Players will find tournaments and sponsors to play for. Im sure that there are people who will continue having events but I would say that the scrutiny is going to start running deep on the projected balance sheet. Someone better do some work and Someone better provide a value otherwise the obvious becomes reality.

The Game is the Teacher'

That's about all I know to say, anyone got any money for tv coverage?

 

[Colin Colenso]

Lots of truth in this post.

Griffin and I have a long running joke:

Mark: You know someone could buy pro pool for a few million bucks......

Me and Mark:....but then what would you do with it?

Cue rimshot and laugh track....

Seriously though how do you sell something no one wants to watch? Not even the people who play?

When someone figures that out maybe things will be different.

Exactly! There isn't a big enough audience for the content that is being produced. All parties could unite tighter than Mao's Communist Party and it would not change the fact that the content is not good enough to compete with the ever growing range of viewing content.

 

[JoeyA]

Exactly! There isn't a big enough audience for the content that is being produced. All parties could unite tighter than Mao's Communist Party and it would not change the fact that the content is not good enough to compete with the ever growing range of viewing content.

4 years...... Welcome back Colin.
JoeyA

 

[Island Drive]

Exactly! There isn't a big enough audience for the content that is being produced. All parties could unite tighter than Mao's Communist Party and it would not change the fact that the content is not good enough to compete with the ever growing range of viewing content.

Yep, has to be created, from the ground up, kinda like school sports, tell the Duff I said Hi, might get out your way before my time ends.

 

[CJ Wiley]

The key is to create a show that has all the necessary components to be entertaining

That's about all I know to say, anyone got any money for tv coverage?

Sure, the money isn't the challenging thing or many people would do it. The key is to create a show that has all the necessary components to be entertaining.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Yep, has to be created, from the ground up, kinda like school sports, tell the Duff I said Hi, might get out your way before my time ends.

Is there any way to make this picture bigger?