A different perspective on the Mosconi Cup

BeiberLvr said:
Someone in another thread (or maybe this one) mentioned Team Europe vs. Team World, and I like that idea as well.
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TBH that is absurd since Team Europe would be an underdog against Team Asia alone. Europe is "not" the strongest area in the world in the game of pool, Asia has that title "very" clearly with the Philippines and China/Taiwan.

If it is the world vs an area then it should be the world vs Asia, not the world vs Europe. That makes it seem like Europe is the strongest area of the world in pool and they are very clearly not.
 
Celtic said:
TBH that is absurd since Team Europe would be an underdog against Team Asia alone. Europe is "not" the strongest area in the world in the game of pool, Asia has that title "very" clearly with the Philippines and China/Taiwan.

If it is the world vs an area then it should be the world vs Asia, not the world vs Europe. That makes it seem like Europe is the strongest area of the world in pool and they are very clearly not.
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That makes sense.
 
Celtic said:
TBH that is absurd since Team Europe would be an underdog against Team Asia alone. Europe is "not" the strongest area in the world in the game of pool, Asia has that title "very" clearly with the Philippines and China/Taiwan.

If it is the world vs an area then it should be the world vs Asia, not the world vs Europe. That makes it seem like Europe is the strongest area of the world in pool and they are very clearly not.
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How do you figure they "very clearly" have the strongest players?

If you check tournament results Europeans have been winning and placing high in events on Asian soil for a long time now.

Kelly Fisher is the number one ranked player on the Chinese tour and I think the number one player on the WPA right now.

Shane Van Boening and Darren Appleton are both ahead on the money in gambling matches in the Phillipines (according to them).
 
Celtic said:
TBH that is absurd since Team Europe would be an underdog against Team Asia alone. Europe is "not" the strongest area in the world in the game of pool, Asia has that title "very" clearly with the Philippines and China/Taiwan.

If it is the world vs an area then it should be the world vs Asia, not the world vs Europe. That makes it seem like Europe is the strongest area of the world in pool and they are very clearly not.
Click to expand...

To be fair, a team of Darren Appleton, Niels Feijen, Ralf Souquet, Thorsten Hohmann and any of Mika Immonen, Jayson Shaw or Karl Boyes would be a clear underdog to a likely Team Asia of Dennis Orcullo, Lee Van Cortezza, Ko Pin Yi, Carlo Biado and JL Chang, but it would be pretty close.

The best match out there is probably the Philippines vs the World.

A team of Orcullo, Biado, Van Cortezza, Pagulayan and Bustamante could take on a team of any five non-Filipinos.
 
sjm said:
To be fair, a team of Darren Appleton, Niels Feijen, Ralf Souquet, Thorsten Hohmann and any of Mika Immonen, Jayson Shaw or Karl Boyes would be a clear underdog to a likely Team Asia of Dennis Orcullo, Lee Van Cortezza, Ko Pin Yi, Carlo Biado and JL Chang, but it would be pretty close.

The best match out there is probably the Philippines vs the World.

A team of Orcullo, Biado, Van Cortezza, Pagulayan and Bustamante could take on a team of any five non-Filipinos.
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I agree here. I would take a filipino five man team against any other continent on Earth. That is not to say they have to win by any means. I'd love to see the filipinos against Team Europe. That would be a very good contest imo.

P.S. You picked the same five I would have picked. Now that's a scary team to be up against! Find me the weak link there, lol. :smile:
Interesting how far Biado has risen in only one year playing on the international level.
 
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sjm said:
To be fair, a team of Darren Appleton, Niels Feijen, Ralf Souquet, Thorsten Hohmann and any of Mika Immonen, Jayson Shaw or Karl Boyes would be a clear underdog to a likely Team Asia of Dennis Orcullo, Lee Van Cortezza, Ko Pin Yi, Carlo Biado and JL Chang, but it would be pretty close.

The best match out there is probably the Philippines vs the World.

A team of Orcullo, Biado, Van Cortezza, Pagulayan and Bustamante could take on a team of any five non-Filipinos.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. To take it a step further, team Asia, that includes Taiwan, China, Japan and the Philippines is a strong favorite in any 10 man event against the remaining 10 best players from anywhere in the world.

People look at me like I'm crazy when I say that any tournament that doesn't have a full Asian contingency is not considered a world class event. I also say that regarding the US Open. Granted, winning that event is quite an accomplishment, but by no means is that equal to a world class event.
 
NYC cue dude said:
I agree completely. To take it a step further, team Asia, that includes Taiwan, China, Japan and the Philippines is a strong favorite in any 10 man event against the remaining 10 best players from anywhere in the world.

People look at me like I'm crazy when I say that any tournament that doesn't have a full Asian contingency is not considered a world class event. I also say that regarding the US Open. Granted, winning that event is quite an accomplishment, but by no means is that equal to a world class event.
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And yet the Europeans have quite a bit of the hardware available from world events over the past decade.
 
sjm said:
To be fair, a team of Darren Appleton, Niels Feijen, Ralf Souquet, Thorsten Hohmann and any of Mika Immonen, Jayson Shaw or Karl Boyes would be a clear underdog to a likely Team Asia of Dennis Orcullo, Lee Van Cortezza, Ko Pin Yi, Carlo Biado and JL Chang, but it would be pretty close.

The best match out there is probably the Philippines vs the World.

A team of Orcullo, Biado, Van Cortezza, Pagulayan and Bustamante could take on a team of any five non-Filipinos.
Click to expand...

I've recently watched a few matches of Ko Pin Yi, and he's quickly becoming one of my favorites. So calm, and plays extremely well. I don't know if he's ever won a world event, but if not, I fully expect him to do so in the near future.
 
JB Cases said:
And yet the Europeans have quite a bit of the hardware available from world events over the past decade.
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They sure do. Daz, Thorsten and Mika are monsters. Peach was an outlier, IMO. But, the Asians (I'm excluding the Philippinos because they've been monsters for 20 years) have progressed remarkably in the last 7-10 years. Yes, they had a couple of world beaters before that, but not like today. You can walk into ANY room in Taiwan, Japan or China (you would know this too) and get played. Odds are by an elite, world class player, too.
 
Let's all band together and throw American professional pool under the bus, now that the Mosconi Cup is over.

Some of these comments are outrageous. Instead of supporting American pool, now the trend is to jump ship and support another country?

If this is the direction American fans are going in, count me out. :angry:
 
JAM said:
Let's all band together and throw American professional pool under the bus, now that the Mosconi Cup is over.

Some of these comments are outrageous. Instead of supporting American pool, now the trend is to jump ship and support another country?

If this is the direction American fans are going in, count me out. :angry:
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@JAM:

If "we" just take the topic, it is like he said: The american players (in my opinion)have not been prepared mentally.
The reasons which are easy to name are:
1.) The coach Johan Ruysink! There are not many who are that kind of knowledged if it s aboutthe mental game and team-building.
2.) In europe you have nonstop competition- and leagues, where the skill-level is fairly high.
3.) Attitude- you have it, or have it not :-)

Of course just a few things i showed up here. But i think just these 3 points are very clear.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I m pretty sure, that the american players are not that worse like many ppl are saying now after that Mosconi Cup. But if you want to work something out in the USA- you need to go back to the base. To make it *easy* for young ppl to play pool: "but LIKE A SPORT WITH A GOOD ATTITUDE".
All those historical tales and stories about *road players*- man: to make a living out of pool..........i don t thinnk you can show me *many* roadplayers who not shit weekly in their pants bc they re not knowing how to pay their bills and taxes.

anyway: the base is given- you have by far more players in leagues than europe- FAR MORE. So in USA they *just* have to work something out, something similar. A program which each state could follow.
but this will not happen by bashing and whining- this will just happen if someone DOES.

Hope my posting was readable :)
lg from overseas,
 
Celtic said:
TBH that is absurd since Team Europe would be an underdog against Team Asia alone. Europe is "not" the strongest area in the world in the game of pool, Asia has that title "very" clearly with the Philippines and China/Taiwan.

If it is the world vs an area then it should be the world vs Asia, not the world vs Europe. That makes it seem like Europe is the strongest area of the world in pool and they are very clearly not.
Click to expand...

Not to mention that Team World would practically be Team Asia anyway - the only non Asian player in with a shout would be SVB, and he hasn't exactly excelled in recent Mosconi cups.

Europe vs. Asia would be an interesting matchup, IMO, as would the UK vs. the US.
 
Ratta said:
@JAM:

If "we" just take the topic, it is like he said: The american players (in my opinion)have not been prepared mentally.
The reasons which are easy to name are:
1.) The coach Johan Ruysink! There are not many who are that kind of knowledged if it s aboutthe mental game and team-building.
2.) In europe you have nonstop competition- and leagues, where the skill-level is fairly high.
3.) Attitude- you have it, or have it not :-)

Of course just a few things i showed up here. But i think just these 3 points are very clear.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I m pretty sure, that the american players are not that worse like many ppl are saying now after that Mosconi Cup. But if you want to work something out in the USA- you need to go back to the base. To make it *easy* for young ppl to play pool: "but LIKE A SPORT WITH A GOOD ATTITUDE".
All those historical tales and stories about *road players*- man: to make a living out of pool..........i don t thinnk you can show me *many* roadplayers who not shit weekly in their pants bc they re not knowing how to pay their bills and taxes.

anyway: the base is given- you have by far more players in leagues than europe- FAR MORE. So in USA they *just* have to work something out, something similar. A program which each state could follow.
but this will not happen by bashing and whining- this will just happen if someone DOES.

Hope my posting was readable :)
lg from overseas,
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Thank you for sharing your observations and thoughts. :)

With Americans jumping ship and supporting professional pool in other countries, there is no hope anymore for American professional pool.

Vince Lombarti coming out of the grave to help and advise the American professional pool industry would not even help if our own countrymen won't support it.

What's worse is to read how strongly American pool fans worship and support players in other countries instead. It's sickening. :mad:

It is a fickle bunch of fans we have here in the United States. We lose the Mosconi Cup, and now everybody wants to advise Barry Hearn to move the Cup to another country or continent and exclude Americans. Gee, Willie Mosconi was an American, last time I checked. If this is hoiw people feel, then they should change the name of this event and called the Sang Lee Cup or the Alex Higgins Cup.

If the direction is to kill American professional pool and everything associated with it, just jump on the AzBilliards American Pro Hater Club and be done with it. One thing for sure, they won't turn me into one of those haters.

USA, ALL THE WAY!
 
NYC cue dude said:
They sure do. Daz, Thorsten and Mika are monsters. Peach was an outlier, IMO. But, the Asians (I'm excluding the Philippinos because they've been monsters for 20 years) have progressed remarkably in the last 7-10 years. Yes, they had a couple of world beaters before that, but not like today. You can walk into ANY room in Taiwan, Japan or China (you would know this too) and get played. Odds are by an elite, world class player, too.
Click to expand...

I know it's a popular perception that in Japan, China, Taiwan and the Philippines there are world beaters in every pool room but that is not the case in my experience having been in all four countries.

To be sure in a lot of rooms there are good players and in most of the good rooms a world beater is only a phone call away. But there are also plenty of rooms where I was clearly the best player in the place and I would take on all comers all night and have no chance of losing.

Pool is not as popular in Asia as people think it is. Yes there are more events that treat it more like a sport but in fact the overall popularity has waned. In Xiamen where I live we are down from a high of about 100 pool rooms to about 20-30ish and of those they are not that great.

In one pool room I have been going to to practice one pocket the card tables are full with 4-8 people per table while the pool tables are largely empty. These guys barely get up to play some pool anymore.

I don't know exactly what they scene is like in Shanghai. There is more gambling there but last time I was there NO ONE in the action room would play Oscar Donminguez without RIDICULOUS weight.

Now that said there is a lot of depth here in Asia and the younger players are world beaters. Players of the same age group and younger as the young Americans are simply better players. Heads up Mike Dechaine, Brandon Shuff, and many other young players in the USA have very little chance to beat these guys consistently. And I base that entirely on watching videos comparing their games.

So while I don't agree with you that any ten players in Asia are far above any ten in Europe I do agree that right now any ten in Asia would probably be well over any ten as a group from the USA. Individually I honestly think Rodney and Johnny and of course Shane can still bring the heat no matter who they are playing.

No one of course wants any part of Shane for big money in a long race. But as team, honestly the Americans need a lot of work to bring their skills and cohesiveness up.
 
Players

JAM said:
Let's all band together and throw American professional pool under the bus, now that the Mosconi Cup is over.

Some of these comments are outrageous. Instead of supporting American pool, now the trend is to jump ship and support another country?

If this is the direction American fans are going in, count me out. :angry:
Click to expand...

How about all the money they made doing what they love!
 
JAM said:
Thank you for sharing your observations and thoughts. :)

With Americans jumping ship and supporting professional pool in other countries, there is no hope anymore for American professional pool.

Vince Lombarti coming out of the grave to help and advise the American professional pool industry would not even help if our own countrymen won't support it.

What's worse is to read how strongly American pool fans worship and support players in other countries instead. It's sickening. :mad:

It is a fickle bunch of fans we have here in the United States. We lose the Mosconi Cup, and now everybody wants to advise Barry Hearn to move the Cup to another country or continent and exclude Americans. Gee, Willie Mosconi was an American, last time I checked. If this is hoiw people feel, then they should change the name of this event and called the Sang Lee Cup or the Alex Higgins Cup.

If the direction is to kill American professional pool and everything associated with it, just jump on the AzBilliards American Pro Hater Club and be done with it. One thing for sure, they won't turn me into one of those haters.

USA, ALL THE WAY!
Click to expand...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

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sjm said:
To be fair, a team of Darren Appleton, Niels Feijen, Ralf Souquet, Thorsten Hohmann and any of Mika Immonen, Jayson Shaw or Karl Boyes would be a clear underdog to a likely Team Asia of Dennis Orcullo, Lee Van Cortezza, Ko Pin Yi, Carlo Biado and JL Chang, but it would be pretty close.

The best match out there is probably the Philippines vs the World.

A team of Orcullo, Biado, Van Cortezza, Pagulayan and Bustamante could take on a team of any five non-Filipinos.
Click to expand...

I agree Asian teams are dominant, but I wonder how they would cope with the MC format? From the admittedly limit amount I've seen them play, many seem incredibly slow and methodical. It would be interesting to see how they cope with the stop clock.
 
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