LD shafts My Humble opinion

BWColeman

BWColeman

BWC
Silver Member
I know i am gonna get beat up and bashed over this one but here it goes.

I was reasding a thread yesterday and a fairly new player was asking about wheather or not to buy a low end playing cue and add an LD shaft as his buget was about 300-400 dollars.

I asked him have you ever played with an LD shaft and his answer was no.

My suggestion was take his buget and buy a decent player , Joss , McDermott, Pechaur or something along these lines , find a cue he liked and that fit his playing style and worry about adding an LD shaft later if he just had to have one

For me being a solid maple shaft guy , My personal opinion are LD Shafts are the best gimmick pool cue manufactures have come up with to seperate you from your money.

I have yet played with an LD shaft that i liked better than a solid maple shaft.

It seems new players and even some experinced players are all caught up in the newest gaget craze when it comes to pool technology.

Pool skill does not come your equipment , yes equipment plays a small part but a very small part , you take a player of Efren Reyes , Earl Strickland Caliber , they will beat you to death with a mop handle no matter if you have a 10K blackboar in your hand . with seperate LD shafts for every shot like a bag of golf clubs.

I think many players spend too much time worrying about the equipment and too little time working on the things that matter , fundamentals , stroke , and practice

This is Just my Opinion

Best of Rolls
 
I've never understood the argument that "it's the Indian, not the arrow". Sure, there are exceptionally talented people out there that can play well despite an equipment disadvantage. So what?

What they can do has nothing (remotely) to do with me. I am not as naturally-gifted, so I....and I venture to guess most posters on this forum....need to remove as many variables as possible to eek out some semblance of a "game".

Michael Phelps can swim fast. That means I shouldn't wear a swimming cap because he doesn't need one to lap me easily?!?!?

Tiger Woods can hit a hole-in-one. That means I should use some old hickories & not some modern clubs like his?!?!?

Don Garlits could drag a car down the track as well as anyone, so I shouldn't bolt slicks on my car when I go to the track because he could drive by me on mudders?!?!?

Buste could hit a 30+ mph break with a house cue, wanna bet he would use one over his current break cue in his next tourney match?

LD shafts are no gimmick, but I will concede they are somewhat overpriced compared to their traditional counterparts.
 
LD Shafts

Not here to beat anyone up, nor get beat up myself. Everyone has an opinion on LD shafts. I use to be very against LD shafts for several years. Over the last year I have tried a couple different types of LD shafts and I can honestly say I am starting to change my mind.

Yes, Efren, Earl, or just about any one else that plays everyday is going to get used to whatever they have in their hands. It's not a good comparison, but it would be like a golfer going back to persimmon woods. LD shafts don't have any performance advantage in my opinion, but by eliminating the deflection variable just gives you one less thing to think about.

I haven't settled on any one brand of LD shaft. I may end up going back to hard maple, but it's not looking that way right now. For a new player to the game, I would recommend a straight butt and a LD shaft.
 
I have shot with both and prefer the LD overall. For normal shooting, you don't shoot hard enough to flex the shaft but a regular shaft is no comparison when shooting the CB hard. I can't speak for all shafts but I have 2 older maple shafts (12mm and 13mm) and then I have a 13mm LD shaft. If I hit the CB hard with the maple shafts I can see the CB swerve almost 2 full balls widths to one side on a table length shot. The LD shaft will only deflect the CB 1/2 ball. It is certainly a lot less to account for.
 
LD shafts

I could have made a better comparison for sure

My point is when two players of equel skill match up the equipment advantage or disadvantage is not going to matter. Me being a solid maple shaft player , playing an equelly skilled LD shaft player , the equipment is not what will make the difference in the game.

What i see is alot of new players who think dropping 250 dollars on an LD shaft is going to make them a better player , instead of taking the time to develope thier game and fundementals and practice.

I am not bashing LD shafts , If thats a players preference and thats what works best for them then its obviously money well spent

But thinking that an LD shaft is going to make suddenly make them play two or three balls better than a hard maple shaft is not going to happen
 
I'm not a big fan of LD shafts, but my Erwin's BEM shaft is too whippy so I bought a McDermott G-Core and love it! I wouldn't say LD shafts are gimmicks, none advertise that you will run racks if you buy one. They advertise what they do; Lower the deflection.

I didn't like the Predator 314, Z2, or OB shafts.
 
My opinion is, it doesnt really matter, just play with what you are used to. If you've played with a solid maple shaft for ten years that you've got used to, and adjusted your aim to, then you're probably going to miss a lot of shots when you try a LD shaft because you've developed your aim around that maple shaft. If you've been playing with an LD shaft for ten years, it'll be the same going to the maple shaft. Ive played with both, but ive played with solid maple shafts my whole life and dont plan to change. But when i played with a LD shaft, it took a few hours to kind of dial in on how to play longer shots, but after that i couldnt tell a difference.
IMHO i think the only shot you shoot hard enough to need any kind of LD shaft, would be your break.
So if a new player starts out with and LD or solid maple shaft, makes no difference. They'll learn to play and adjust to whatever they start with. Just my two cents.
 
Saying LD shafts will not make you a great or good player is a strawman argument. No one claims that. They lower the deflection and take out some of the guesswork when using english potentially shortening the learning curve. They are also more forgiving on unintentional off center hits. No one says you have to use them but I don't think what they do is debatable.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
Well Im not technically a new player..I played for long time. Its just I sorta stay indoor to myself don't have time to investigate the deflection etc etc stuff and play with house cues about 10 hourish a week ;/ Just so happen so saved my pennies up for something.
 
BWColeman said:
I could have made a better comparison for sure

My point is when two players of equel skill match up the equipment advantage or disadvantage is not going to matter. Me being a solid maple shaft player , playing an equelly skilled LD shaft player , the equipment is not what will make the difference in the game.

What i see is alot of new players who think dropping 250 dollars on an LD shaft is going to make them a better player , instead of taking the time to develope thier game and fundementals and practice.

I am not bashing LD shafts , If thats a players preference and thats what works best for them then its obviously money well spent

But thinking that an LD shaft is going to make suddenly make them play two or three balls better than a hard maple shaft is not going to happen
Click to expand...

I agree with what you're saying for the most part. That said...I think if two equally skilled beginners started playing pool, one with a maple shaft, and the other with an LD shaft...when they start trying to learn potting balls with english...the LD shaft user may have a bit of an edge as far as the learning curve goes.

FTR...when I first went to an LD shaft, it was because I wanted a skinnier diameter shaft, so I went with the "Z" shaft. At 11.75mm, it was the right diameter for me at the time. If I had tried to use a 11.75mm solid maple shaft, I probably would have missed a lot more balls when english was used due to the shaft being much too whippy. So basically I paid $200 for a shaft to get the right combination of low deflection/diameter of shaft/stiffness.

I have read a lot of people criticize LD shafts for being too whippy. My experience has been that once you get below a certain diameter, say 12.50mm, the solid maple shafts are much whippier than a laminated LD shaft. YMMV.

Maniac
 
My opinion, which is worth nothing, is that new players should just get a decent straight cue and learn how to shoot. I advise them to stay away from english (we are talking very new players) and just learn how to pot balls and maybe, just maybe, think about position using speed and angles.

When someone becomes good enough to start thinking about using english to position for their next shot, I 100% suggest an LD shaft. People who are just starting to learn to use english can benefit greatly from LD shafts. It just uncomplicates things. The people who tend to dislike them are the long time players who hate to adjust their game... which is why I love pointing the new players towards LD... they have no preconceived notions.

The reverse is also true though... people who are used to non-LD shafts are free to hate LD shafts and I understand. Once you get used to playing a certain way it is hard to break free. That doesn't mean LD shafts are a rip-off, it just means they are a trend that costs a bit more but can also be a useful tool.
 
BWColeman said:
I know i am gonna get beat up and bashed over this one but here it goes.

I was reasding a thread yesterday and a fairly new player was asking about wheather or not to buy a low end playing cue and add an LD shaft as his buget was about 300-400 dollars.

I asked him have you ever played with an LD shaft and his answer was no.

My suggestion was take his buget and buy a decent player , Joss , McDermott, Pechaur or something along these lines , find a cue he liked and that fit his playing style and worry about adding an LD shaft later if he just had to have one

For me being a solid maple shaft guy , My personal opinion are LD Shafts are the best gimmick pool cue manufactures have come up with to seperate you from your money.

I have yet played with an LD shaft that i liked better than a solid maple shaft.

It seems new players and even some experinced players are all caught up in the newest gaget craze when it comes to pool technology.

Pool skill does not come your equipment , yes equipment plays a small part but a very small part , you take a player of Efren Reyes , Earl Strickland Caliber , they will beat you to death with a mop handle no matter if you have a 10K blackboar in your hand . with seperate LD shafts for every shot like a bag of golf clubs.

I think many players spend too much time worrying about the equipment and too little time working on the things that matter , fundamentals , stroke , and practice

This is Just my Opinion

Best of Rolls
Click to expand...

Yes, technology is a bad thing. :rolleyes: Always remember the 3% rule, only 3% will be at the top of just about every thing. The rest need all the help they can get.
 
PaulieB said:
My opinion, which is worth nothing, is that new players should just get a decent straight cue and learn how to shoot. I advise them to stay away from english (we are talking very new players) and just learn how to pot balls and maybe, just maybe, think about position using speed and angles.

When someone becomes good enough to start thinking about using english to position for their next shot, I 100% suggest an LD shaft. People who are just starting to learn to use english can benefit greatly from LD shafts. It just uncomplicates things. The people who tend to dislike them are the long time players who hate to adjust their game... which is why I love pointing the new players towards LD... they have no preconceived notions.

The reverse is also true though... people who are used to non-LD shafts are free to hate LD shafts and I understand. Once you get used to playing a certain way it is hard to break free. That doesn't mean LD shafts are a rip-off, it just means they are a trend that costs a bit more but can also be a useful tool.
Click to expand...

This is exactly how I feel. I made the switch to a LD shaft a few months ago and I would hate to go back. I wish that when I first decided it was time for a nice cue someone would have told me to get an LD shaft. Yes they are more expensive, but IMHO they are more forgiving. I compare them to cavity backed irons in golf. They are simply more forgiving on shots where I may have mishit the ball a little.
 
I am Old school

PaulieB said:
My opinion, which is worth nothing, is that new players should just get a decent straight cue and learn how to shoot. I advise them to stay away from english (we are talking very new players) and just learn how to pot balls and maybe, just maybe, think about position using speed and angles.

When someone becomes good enough to start thinking about using english to position for their next shot, I 100% suggest an LD shaft. People who are just starting to learn to use english can benefit greatly from LD shafts. It just uncomplicates things. The people who tend to dislike them are the long time players who hate to adjust their game... which is why I love pointing the new players towards LD... they have no preconceived notions.

The reverse is also true though... people who are used to non-LD shafts are free to hate LD shafts and I understand. Once you get used to playing a certain way it is hard to break free. That doesn't mean LD shafts are a rip-off, it just means they are a trend that costs a bit more but can also be a useful tool.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with your point , and a few others . I have been playing maple shafts since i first started playing and can be pretty persnickity when it comes to change.

I can see now how a new player with no preconcieved notions could benifit from learning with an LD shaft ( will they ever be for me , probably not ) but that does not mean in any way that a novice player could not benifit from using one when they begin learning english .

Gret points all
 
Happy new Year Coleman.I totally afree with you.I have been played the game since 1983 , i try the 314 shaft( 2nd gen) to my joss.All these years there were times that i play great games no diference if i play with my joss shaft or the predator.I come to the conclusion that a player must spend a lot of hours hittinng the whity just to understand that pool is a sport that has no learning limits ,no matter what the equipment are.There is always something new to learn.
Marketing at his best with the LD shafts__
A piece off advice to newcomers : play a lot off hours with a purpose every time find a coach-play with a better players and be your self always.
Best off wishes from the most beautiful country off the planet>
 
The thing that I noticed when I changed over to a LD shaft was my long shots were easier to make and it didn't require as much force to move the CB around as it did with my other shaft.. If I were to give him any advice it would be, as we all know, the shaft and tip are the most important parts of the cue so I would buy a decent butt section and ad a LD shaft before I ever started to shoot a lot, then he wouldn't have to make a small adjustment going from a standard shaft to a LD.---Smitty
 
A few facts:

Low Cue ball squirt, more commonly known as LD, is a proven and easily substantiated thing. LD is not hype, it is real.

Not all shafts that are labeled as "LD" are really all that much different than the normally constructed shafts. There is no regulation to separate the real LD from the claimed LD.

LD shafts are marketed. We are in business, and must advertise our products in order to stay in business. We advertise their features advantages and benefits. We don't claim they are something they are not.

Many people, for whatever reason, seem to think that LD cue shafts are marketed as being able to "make you play better" or something like that. This is an incorrect assumption.

Not all players will like LD shafts, and that's ok! Many will, so all is good.

About price comparison. If take a look at the costs to produce both a regular cue shaft and an LD cue shaft I think you'll find the profit margin much better on the regular shaft. The wood required for an LD shaft is not scrap. Believe me when I say I could easily cut my wood costs in half making regular shafts. And cut the labor even more. Quality regular shafts range in price from $125 to over $400, depending on who the maker is. Quality, real LD shafts are actually a very good deal. What makes this possible is economy of scale. We make lots of them to keep the prices down.

Last but not least, LD changes the aim line. Squirt is not something that allows you to do something that can't be done without it. The only shots, that I'm aware of, that are very difficult to shoot with an LD shaft is a jump shot. Yes, that includes the masse. all you really have to do is aim to miss the interfering ball instead of depending on the squirt to get the cue ball to go past it.


Just to throw in a little marketing, Watch for some really cool new stuff from OB Cues this year. Check out our current cues for our razor sharp "Infinity" inlays.

Happy New Year everybody! 2014 will be a great year!


Royce
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top