That's a fact, Jack! :wink:
Let's Bring The Discussion Of Pool Player As Job Over Here
- Thread starter watchez
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That's a fact, Jack! :wink:
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No, I totally understand that.
I was told by a poster that the top 25 players make a good living based on azbilliards money list. I disagreed.
For instance, Corey Deuel was 19th making $41,225 in 2013. And $41,225 is a fine living in some parts of the country. That is, unless you're flying to work, staying in hotels to work and paying $500 everytime you work and no idea if you'll get paid that day or not. Then, it's not a fine living. So $41,225 ends up being closer to 15-20k. That's all I said and Watchez told me I was wrong and I simply don't see how I'm wrong. He compared it to an everyday job and I don't think you can do that.
Obviously nobody forced Corey to do what he does. He chose the life and if he's happy with it, have it it hoss.
You forgot health care, retirement planning, paid vacations, disability insurance, etc.
I think Watchez was saying $15/day for the regular olé worker...not the pro pool players daily expense. But what do I know...carry on.
He is. That's why Im saying it's not a fair comparison. Of course everyone has expenses, when he goes to Turning Stone and "wins" $1200, it doesn't look as nice when he paid $1200 to be there. That is all I'm saying.
Actually no it doesnt do fine in other countries. If it did all of the pros chasing $3000 added events in the US would be in those other countries.
There is surely some fault for promoters. There are more things I can do as a promoter for sure. End of the day though if you are trying to sell ice to eskimo's you are not going to do as well as the guy selling central heating. 99.9.% of the people on earth just think watching anyone play pool is boring as hell. Including pool players and people on this site.
AZ has over 46,000 registered members. A free stream of the biggest players is lucky to get 2,000 viewers. That happens a couple times a year. So if you cant get 5% of the people who register on a pool site to watch for free just how many normal people do you think are even open to checking out two guys knocking balls around a table?
Entry fee, 4 to 5 days of hotel lodging, travel expenses, and food. Must come in first, second, or third to break even.
Looking at the money Corey won. He played in 11 tournaments in doing so -- the TAR event where he won $2,000 I believe he is paid expenses.
11 x $500 entree fees= $5500
11 x $1000 expenses for his trip = $11,000
That leaves him with $24,500 before he gets to write off all his expenses as a self employed person. I'd be happy to recommend him a good tax accountant.
He could also learn how to cut down his expenses. I am going to a tournament in Florida in 2 weeks. I rented a 6 bedroom house in a private resort for 5 days for $1000. This place is a palace. Heated swimming pool, hot tub, flat screen TV in every room. 4 bathrooms. Oh there is even a pool table in the house. Splitting it with 10 people so it is costing me $100 to stay there for 5 days.
Watchez is the teacher.
First of all, he played in more than 11 last year. Also, those are the tournaments he cashed in.
I'm counting 20 events:
DCC 1p
DCC 9ball
DCC banks
4 bears
US Open 1pocket
US Open 10ball
US Open 8ball
US BB 10ball
US BB 8ball
US BB 9ball
Southern Classic 1p
Southern Classic 9ball
Southern Classic banks
Ultimate 10ball
SBE 10ball
Maryland 14.1
world 14.1
turning stone xx
us open 9ball
world 9ball
DCC, US Open 1p/8ball/10ball, US Bartable, and southern classic/ultimate 10ball only count as 1 flight since they were lumped together, so 11 different flights (one international), 20 different entry fees, and roughly 70-80 nights in a hotel.
Again - he doesn't have to stay in a hotel. He chooses to stay there.
His flights shouldn't be $500 round trip to anywhere in the US if he is making preparations and scheduling his life beforehand. I flew over a half a dozen times last year and never paid close to $500 for a round trip flight. I also reach out to people I know all the time that travel for business and ask if they want to sell their miles to me. And he can drive from Columbus to the DCC, Maryland, the US Open and I am sure I am missing a couple of more.
The DCC, the entry fees aren't $500 an event. Same with Southern Classic and Reno BB events.
I'd like to know what event he played in he didn't cash.
And this doesn't list the regional events he played in and cashed or won either.
His flights shouldn't be $500 round trip to anywhere in the US if he is making preparations and scheduling his life beforehand. I flew over a half a dozen times last year and never paid close to $500 for a round trip flight. I also reach out to people I know all the time that travel for business and ask if they want to sell their miles to me. And he can drive from Columbus to the DCC, Maryland, the US Open and I am sure I am missing a couple of more.
The DCC, the entry fees aren't $500 an event. Same with Southern Classic and Reno BB events.
I'd like to know what event he played in he didn't cash.
And this doesn't list the regional events he played in and cashed or won either.
And don't forget food and miscellaneous expenses. Eating out can be quite expensive. Even if you get a small fridge in the room, you still have to buy some items like mayo, salt and pepper, bread, juice, et cetera.
Miscellaneous expenses always crop up. Have a headache? Then you pay $1 for one ibuprofen pill, because where you are staying at, you cannot purchase a discount bottle of 100 for $10.
Also, to start out traveling, one needs good luggage, which ain't cheap.
Some tournaments have a dress code, and many today don't allow athletic shoes, so you have to have a good pair of leather shoes, collared shirts, and slacks (no jeans) on hand. Finding a pair of comfortable good-fitting leather shoes isn't easy for some players.
And then there's those infamous savers, though if the player will have to pay tax on the whole kaboodle even if he does save. Savers are more expensive than one can imagine. If a player wins $10,000 in a week-long tournament and saves for 10 percent. They have to pay taxes on the entire $10,000, while the guy that got the free $1,000 saver, his money is tax-free, so to speak. The expenses for the week-long tournament, $1,000 for hotel, $100 a day for food and beverages and snacks, $300 for entry fees, $500 for travel, and $300 for miscellaneous. And then if you want to support the event and buy a T-shirt or a hat, well, that's more expense. \
I have not even suggested the gambling monies, but at most pool events, a lot of players like to get in a little action.
I've always said that professional pool is a rich man's high. Like C.J. said, it's living the life of a millionaire on a welfare budget. :embarrassed2:
Southern Classic banks, Southern Classic 9ball, Ultimate 10ball, world 14.1 championship, US Open 10ball, US Open 8ball. There may be more.
Ok I give up, you're right Watchez. Corey is doing just great playing tournaments at a net $20k/year. Twice the poverty level, good shootin.
So we are back to square one, AGAIN !...An entire thread with pretty much everybody in agreement..Most highly skilled professional pool player's, make less money than a garbage collecter.. Maybe less than an asst. mgr., at MacDonalds !
Very few are naïve enough to think otherwise, yet, before the week is out, there will be another thread on the exact same subject...Methinks, if as much time were devoted to finding a solution, as there are in these meaningless threads...
..we MAY have come up with a remedy ! (if there is one)
LATE EDIT; Nice house Watchez, does the owner know you'll be staying there with 9 or10 other broke-dick, drunk,
pilled-up pool degenerates ?
Very few are naïve enough to think otherwise, yet, before the week is out, there will be another thread on the exact same subject...Methinks, if as much time were devoted to finding a solution, as there are in these meaningless threads...
..we MAY have come up with a remedy ! (if there is one)
LATE EDIT; Nice house Watchez, does the owner know you'll be staying there with 9 or10 other broke-dick, drunk,
pilled-up pool degenerates ?
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So we are back to square one, AGAIN !...An entire thread with pretty much everybody in agreement..Most highly skilled professional pool player's, make less money than a garbage collecter.. Maybe less than an asst. mgr., at MacDonalds !
Very few are naïve enough to think otherwise, yet, before the week is out, there will be another thread on the exact same subject...Methinks, if as much time were devoted to finding a solution, as there are in these meaningless threads...
..we MAY have come up with a remedy ! (if there is one)
Problem? What problem? There is no problem. The top 25 are doing just fine playing tournaments.
So we are back to square one, AGAIN !...An entire thread with pretty much everybody in agreement..Most highly skilled professional pool player's, make less money than a garbage collecter.. Maybe less than an asst. mgr., at MacDonalds !
Very few are naïve enough to think otherwise, yet, before the week is out, there will be another thread on the exact same subject...Methinks, if as much time were devoted to finding a solution, as there are in these meaningless threads...
..we MAY have come up with a remedy ! (if there is one)
Welcome to AzBilliards Discussion Forum, Dick, where subject matters are cyclical.
Next on the menu, who's the best player in the world? After that, we'll have a little aiming strategy, and for dessert, Bonus Ball woes.
You say the problem is that people just don’t enjoy watching pool. Do you believe there is a solution to the problem out there somewhere?
Intresting insight
"The mini tours aren’t cheap to play in, despite there being no caddies to pay. Each tour costs $1,500 to join, and there is an entry fee—usually around $1,200—for the individual tournaments. Ben’s father, Jim, estimated it would cost at least $50,000 for his son to play on them for a year.
Jim set about raising the money in two ways. First he asked 100 friends of the family to contribute $300 toward Ben’s living expenses. This money was not going to be spent on golf nor was it construed as an investment. It was just a $30,000 gift to pay his son’s rent and keep him fed while he chased the dream."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelnoer/2012/02/08/ben-martin-pga-tour/
"The mini tours aren’t cheap to play in, despite there being no caddies to pay. Each tour costs $1,500 to join, and there is an entry fee—usually around $1,200—for the individual tournaments. Ben’s father, Jim, estimated it would cost at least $50,000 for his son to play on them for a year.
Jim set about raising the money in two ways. First he asked 100 friends of the family to contribute $300 toward Ben’s living expenses. This money was not going to be spent on golf nor was it construed as an investment. It was just a $30,000 gift to pay his son’s rent and keep him fed while he chased the dream."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelnoer/2012/02/08/ben-martin-pga-tour/
I dont think so for mainstream appeal. It would take a solid structure, a lot of money and people who knew what they were doing to run it. Even then chances are it would still fail as do most start up entertainment sports. Its taken decades for pro soccer to get any sort of success in the US and their are some very smart very rich people involved in that. The NHL is still always talking about gaining acceptance and bringing in new people to survive and grow.
I think pro pool's only hope is to become a solid niche sport by going after the league players full force. To do anything though requires structure and organization. Something pool has been historically very very bad at. The reason that is IMO is because the juice just isn't worth squeeze for anyone to invest the time money and effort it would take.
Think of a structure with amateur events funding and providing fans for pro events. A structure for a player to go from novice to pro with a known bar to entry at the top level. Of course there are many amateurs who say "I want none of my money or effort to go towards funding any pro's." That attitude is born out of the last thirty years of conduct by the pro players. So you have what we have now. Everyone struggling to do the best they can in little groups often working at odds with each other.
Until there is a structure and organization in place that holds players and promoters accountable nothing will change.
I have heard him myself telling everyone in ear shot that he is beating all of these players and he is playing with the POS cue.
Your comment is without merit.
Ken