Jay Swanson Memorial Tournament (Question)

jmurphy

jmurphy

SWEET
Silver Member
I was reading the Flyer for the 2014 Jay Swanson Memorial Tournament

It is open to 192 players
Entry Fee is $88 and sucked out of that $88 is a $28 Reg./Greens Fee per person
with a full field and no one paying the extra $5 late fee the Reg./Greens Fees come out to be $5,376 sucked out of the tournament purse.

Now they claim that with a full field that $4,000 will be added to the tournament purse.
Of course you have to keep in mind that $5,376 has been sucked out of the tournament purse.

Now I don't expect CSI to work for free or Hard Times to lose out either. Having said that doesn't this tournament have sponsors like OB & Kamui etc......?
Where is there sponsorship money?
Wouldn't it be nice if sponsorship money could cover the cost of running the tournament so the player's entry fee money could actually go toward the player payouts so that the prize purse would look something more like
$88 X 192 = $16,896 + $4,000 added money = $20,896 tournament purse

Instead of $88 X 192 = $16,896 - $5,376 = $11,520 + $4,000 added money = $15,520 tournament purse.


Almost forgot Added to the $5,376 Reg./Greens Fee is that all the Fans are charged to get in the door at Hard Times to watch the tournament & the extra $1,000s in concessions money generated.
Don't get me wrong I do want Hard Times & CSI to do well for running the tournament. I only bring this up because I would love to see the player's money be paid back to the players and have the Sponsors & Fans cover the cost of running the tournament.
 
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jmurphy said:
I was reading the Flyer for the 2014 Jay Swanson Memorial Tournament

It is open to 192 players
Entry Fee is $88 and sucked out of that $88 is a $28 Reg./Greens Fee per person
with a full field and no one paying the extra $5 late fee the Reg./Greens Fees come out to be $5,376 sucked out of the tournament purse.

Now they claim that with a full field that $4,000 will be added to the tournament purse.
Of course you have to keep in mind that $5,376 has been sucked out of the tournament purse.

Now I don't expect CSI to work for free or Hard Times to lose out either. Having said that doesn't this tournament have sponsors like OB & Kamui etc......?
Where is there sponsorship money?
Wouldn't it be nice if sponsorship money could cover the cost of running the tournament so the player's entry fee money could actually go toward the player payouts so that the prize purse would look something more like
$88 X 192 = $16,896 + $4,000 added money = $20,896 tournament purse

Instead of $88 X 192 = $16,896 - $5,376 = $11,520 + $4,000 added money = $15,520 tournament purse.


Almost forgot Added to the $5,376 Reg./Greens Fee is that all the Fans are charged to get in the door at Hard Times to watch the tournament & the extra $1,000s in concessions money generated.
Don't get me wrong I do want Hard Times & CSI to do well for running the tournament. I only bring this up because I would love to see the player's money be paid back to the players and have the Sponsors & Fans cover the cost of running the tournament.
Click to expand...

Man, Ok... F' it they should stop having the tournament then you would have nothing to complain about other than there being no tournaments around to go too.... same old / same old for 40 years...
 
jmurphy said:
I was reading the Flyer for the 2014 Jay Swanson Memorial Tournament

It is open to 192 players
Entry Fee is $88 and sucked out of that $88 is a $28 Reg./Greens Fee per person
with a full field and no one paying the extra $5 late fee the Reg./Greens Fees come out to be $5,376 sucked out of the tournament purse.

Now they claim that with a full field that $4,000 will be added to the tournament purse.
Of course you have to keep in mind that $5,376 has been sucked out of the tournament purse.

Now I don't expect CSI to work for free or Hard Times to lose out either. Having said that doesn't this tournament have sponsors like OB & Kamui etc......?
Where is there sponsorship money?
Wouldn't it be nice if sponsorship money could cover the cost of running the tournament so the player's entry fee money could actually go toward the player payouts so that the prize purse would look something more like
$88 X 192 = $16,896 + $4,000 added money = $20,896 tournament purse

Instead of $88 X 192 = $16,896 - $5,376 = $11,520 + $4,000 added money = $15,520 tournament purse.


Almost forgot Added to the $5,376 Reg./Greens Fee is that all the Fans are charged to get in the door at Hard Times to watch the tournament & the extra $1,000s in concessions money generated.
Don't get me wrong I do want Hard Times & CSI to do well for running the tournament. I only bring this up because I would love to see the player's money be paid back to the players and have the Sponsors & Fans cover the cost of running the tournament.
Click to expand...


Those green fees are absolutely crazy to take over 5k out if the purse is horrible an they should be embarrassed! No wonder why pool is going to hell it's people an places like hard times that makes it tough on the players
 
nb92 said:
Man, Ok... F' it they should stop having the tournament then you would have nothing to complain about other than there being no tournaments around to go too.... same old / same old for 40 years...
Click to expand...

The focus should be on increasing sponsorship money plus what the fans contribute to cover the cost of running the tournament.
The players have no business paying the promoters, it's the promoter's responsibility to raise the money to run the tournament.
Added money should be truly added money don't take over $5k of the player's fees and put back $4K and call it added money.
That type of arithmetic gets ya broke.:thumbup:
 
Hard Times is a business that is giving up prime table time for the tournament. They have rent, employees and other expenses to pay. So does CSI. They can't make ends meet just selling Doritos and hot dogs! Not many businesses would welcome taking losses for the benefit of pool players or anyone for that matter. It has to pencil out for everyone. Martin
 
rackemup20 said:
Those green fees are absolutely crazy to take over 5k out if the purse is horrible an they should be embarrassed! No wonder why pool is going to hell it's people an places like hard times that makes it tough on the players
Click to expand...

It's also tough on the people that do the tournament and the room owner.
I've seen a lot of rooms going under, and players still called them greedy.

If streaming becomes more popular, maybe sponsors aren't far behind.

I don't see players around at the end of the month offering to help out
with the rent.
 
jazznpool said:
Hard Times is a business that is giving up prime table time for the tournament. They have rent, employees and other expenses to pay. So does CSI. They can't make ends meet just selling Doritos and hot dogs! Not many businesses would welcome taking losses for the benefit of pool players or anyone for that matter. It has to pencil out for everyone. Martin
Click to expand...

You are missing the whole point.
I said several times that I don't expect CSI or Hard Times to do anything that cost them money. My point is that the player's entry fess is not the place for promoters or pool room owners to look for covering the cost of the tournament.

How can you look someone in the eye and say that you are adding $4K when you are subtracting over $5K from the player's entry fees?

The Fans are doing their part at roughly $10 per head to get in the door plus spending $$$ in concessions. it's freaking time the sponsors pony up to promote the sport.
Now it could be that the sponsors are kicking in and it's just hidden money being pocketed, who knows?
 
jazznpool said:
Hard Times is a business that is giving up prime table time for the tournament. They have rent, employees and other expenses to pay. So does CSI. They can't make ends meet just selling Doritos and hot dogs! Not many businesses would welcome taking losses for the benefit of pool players or anyone for that matter. It has to pencil out for everyone. Martin
Click to expand...

This is why pool is where its at! Great post! People have no clue what it costs to put something like this together. The people that complain about the green fees are the ones always looking to get some free table time, order a glass of water, and maybe even swipe that piece of new chalk!

Pool players,,, SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOT 100% OF THEM, JUST 95% SUCK! And that's what is ruining the sport
 
liakos said:
This is why pool is where its at! Great post! People have no clue what it costs to put something like this together. The people that complain about the green fees are the ones always looking to get some free table time, order a glass of water, and maybe even swipe that piece of new chalk!

Pool players,,, SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOT 100% OF THEM, JUST 95% SUCK! And that's what is ruining the sport
Click to expand...

Once again just another person who is missing the whole point of this thread..........

It's the promoter's responsibility to RAISE the money to cover the cost of running the tournament. Be creative for a change hit the streets, make some calls, groom a few sponsors and of course have the fans do their part to cover the expenses of running the tournament.
It's damn difficult for a Full Time Professional Pool Player to earn a living and looking to the players to cover the expenses makes it that much harder to grow the sport.
 
I think YOU are the one missing the point...

jmurphy said:
Once again just another person who is missing the whole point of this thread..........

It's the promoter's responsibility to RAISE the money to cover the cost of running the tournament. Be creative for a change hit the streets, make some calls, groom a few sponsors and of course have the fans do their part to cover the expenses of running the tournament.
It's damn difficult for a Full Time Professional Pool Player to earn a living and looking to the players to cover the expenses makes it that much harder to grow the sport.
Click to expand...

If the promoters are unable to raise this money from alternate sources are they supposed to just NOT hold the tournament???

I mean it's not like the flyer doesn't explain that there are registration fees.

No one is being misled IMO.

IF the flyer says 28 dollar registration fee as part of the registration for the tournament, then the payout monies are the $60.

You know that coming into the tournament.

Then they are adding $4000 on top of the $60 per person. Whether the added money is more or less than the registration fees is moot.

If they were being dishonest about it, you wouldn't even KNOW about that until after the tourney is over and the payouts have occurred.

This tournament is a full 192 players every year.

It's the best two day tourney period. Some of the best players, the best atmosphere, it's a lot crammed into two days but it is one hell of an experience.

If it was so bad I would think they would have trouble filling it up, but they don't. There's almost always a waiting list to get in.

I remember the first year you couldn't register the day of because it had filled up in advance, there were a lot of pissed off people that should have planned in advance.

IF you want to have a tourney that adds $4000 on top of all player paid amounts, then try to promote a tourney yourself and see how far you get.

Jaden
 
I always find it interesting when somebody does the math and challenges the prize fund. The point is simple: Everybody knows going into it what the terms are. They know the entry fee and the payouts. A fee is just that: a fee. Players are not paying tournament prize funds. They are paying an entry fee to play in the tournament.

Everything is disclosed. If somebody doesn't like it, the solution is very simple: Don't play in it.
 
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It is marketing 101 and without this method of attracting players, there would be no tournament. Pool is not in a place where the sponsorship money is large enough to support a tournament of this size. It has to come from the field (players).

The room owners typically do not make money on tournaments. They give up a lot of table time to accommodate tournament play, and even with the green fees, the room usually takes a loss. What I mean by loss is less than the room would normally make without the tournament.

This is the way of the world. It is how the lottery works; it is how poker works, and it is how Vegas keeps their lights on.

Sponsorship comes after there is a medium for which the sponsors' investment can bring a return. Without a large audience who is willing to purchase the sponsors' products, there will not be much sponsorship money offered, imo.

So, if there is to be a tournament at all, the field will have to produce the bulk of the prize fund, and the "greedy room owners" will have to stomach the usual losses and the occasional break even surprises.
 
You can get all the action you want...

POVPOOL said:
Is this a bad place to bark for action?
Click to expand...

If my refi goes through before Friday, you can get all the action you want from me on table one. I've got to be careful though or Frank's gonna be taking a piece of my end :D:grin:

Jaden
 
Hard Times does not even have a beer and wine license so they are limited in their revenue options. CSI is doing a great job in putting on this tournament. For the S. California pool scene this pool tournament is fantastic. It has run for I believe 18 years and we should all thank CSI for putting it on.
 
It's an odd feeling: I only read the OP's original post...yet I know exactly everything that's been said in the remaining posts. :boring2:
 
Essentially Hard Times is the only game in town in the Los Angeles area. They can do whatever they want when hosting events. Same goes for other major tournaments around the country. For the LA players, we only have this event to play in yearly. In Northern California, several venues host events without the costly green fee's. They are Hard Times Sacramento and the California Billiard Club now in Fremont. It's tough on an owner who is trying to balance hosting events and the expenditures required to stay in business. I do give credit to Mark Griffin for continuing the "Swanee" annually. I know for a fact he takes a lot of criticism from us but you know what, he puts on a good show. He also is trying to keep the Bar Table Championships alive in our broken economy. Until we have more competition (pool rooms) for the players dollars this trend will continue. Our other options are to join the APA and/or BCA and play in leagues like the rest of the world. Now you really would have some legitimate complaints about green fee's.
 
jmurphy said:
I was reading the Flyer for the 2014 Jay Swanson Memorial Tournament

It is open to 192 players
Entry Fee is $88 and sucked out of that $88 is a $28 Reg./Greens Fee per person
with a full field and no one paying the extra $5 late fee the Reg./Greens Fees come out to be $5,376 sucked out of the tournament purse.

Now they claim that with a full field that $4,000 will be added to the tournament purse.
Of course you have to keep in mind that $5,376 has been sucked out of the tournament purse.

Now I don't expect CSI to work for free or Hard Times to lose out either. Having said that doesn't this tournament have sponsors like OB & Kamui etc......?
Where is there sponsorship money?
Wouldn't it be nice if sponsorship money could cover the cost of running the tournament so the player's entry fee money could actually go toward the player payouts so that the prize purse would look something more like
$88 X 192 = $16,896 + $4,000 added money = $20,896 tournament purse

Instead of $88 X 192 = $16,896 - $5,376 = $11,520 + $4,000 added money = $15,520 tournament purse.


Almost forgot Added to the $5,376 Reg./Greens Fee is that all the Fans are charged to get in the door at Hard Times to watch the tournament & the extra $1,000s in concessions money generated.
Don't get me wrong I do want Hard Times & CSI to do well for running the tournament. I only bring this up because I would love to see the player's money be paid back to the players and have the Sponsors & Fans cover the cost of running the tournament.
Click to expand...

Just so you know, CSI makes nothing from this tournament! All CSI gets is $3 per entry. That's it! For that $3, CSI takes all of the entries in our office, does the draw, advertises, etc.

Mark Griffin continues to have this tournament simply to keep the memory of Jay Swanson alive.

Bill Stock
CueSports International
 
liakos said:
This is why pool is where its at! Great post! People have no clue what it costs to put something like this together. The people that complain about the green fees are the ones always looking to get some free table time, order a glass of water, and maybe even swipe that piece of new chalk!

Pool players,,, SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOT 100% OF THEM, JUST 95% SUCK! And that's what is ruining the sport
Click to expand...

It's the room owners that make it look bad. Example they are adding 4k to the tournament but they r charging $5488 in green fees so again it's kinda to me false advertising an the owner sounding like he's doing something really good. Lol
 
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