TAR & Bonus Ball

[joelpope]

Some thoughts and comparisons between TAR & Bonus Ball as well as between "planet pool" and mainstream business.

Some positives (+) and negatives (-) below:

TAR (JCIN)
+ a visionary leader who is not afraid to take risks
+ an enduring love of the game
+ street cred
+ contacts within the industry
+ knowledge and experience with the industry
+ the beginnings of a brand
+ positive reputation with industry
+ presumably a list of people willing to pay to watch pool
- a pool studio for video taping and live streaming that is expensive to maintain and is under utilized
- lack of capitalization
- an unproven and questionable entertainment format. By this I mean that if the PGA (probably the best capitalized individual sport on TV) developed a TAR like approach and tried to sell a three day one on one match between Adam Scott #2 in the world and Henrik Stenson #3 in the world where you watched them play from hole to hole for 3 straight rounds very few people would be interested. Especially if it was pay per view. And I am talking Golf & #2 versus #3 in the world, so, why would it work for pool?


Bonus Ball
+ reasonably well capitalized
+ interesting proposition of team competition that may lend itself better to TV for the masses
- a pool studio for video taping and live streaming that is expensive to maintain and under utilized
- lack of street cred
- questionable understanding of the industry
- poor industry relations due to rocky and somewhat aggressive launch


I lived in the air-conditioned, carpeted jungle of a Fortune 500 company for quite a while. Despite the dog eat dog environment one thing remained constant... leave your ego at the door and figure out how to make money. The venture had to succeed in order to pay all the salaries, bonuses & such that supported your lifestyle. This "group success focus" in order for individuals to prosper oftentimes led to compromise and strange bed fellows. And, it almost always led to profits and success.

Look at XM & Sirius satellite radio.... absolute competitors trying to drive each other out of business that merged to try to survive. Look at all the mergers in corporate America. Groups and individuals compromise and enemies join forces to survive and prosper. When 2 organizations have complimenting strengths and weaknesses there is much to be gained by joining forces to expand strengths and eliminate redundancies.

Why shouldn't "planet pool" work the same way as mainstream business? If it was an MBA program exercise where the background and current status of TAR and Bonus Ball was presented as a business problem there would be a compelling argument to merge the two and utilized the complimentary strengths of the organizations and people involved.

The one thing that is clear to me is that an entity made up of TAR and Bonus Ball would have far more to bring to market and far superior skill sets and resources than either have today individually.

It most likely won't happen... it is hard. It takes great effort and a greater amount of humility to listen, compromise and cooperate.

Something to think about

 

[Kid Dynomite]

Some thoughts and comparisons between TAR & Bonus Ball as well as between "planet pool" and mainstream business.

Some positives (+) and negatives (-) below:

TAR (JCIN)
+ a visionary leader who is not afraid to take risks
+ an enduring love of the game
+ street cred
+ contacts within the industry
+ knowledge and experience with the industry
+ the beginnings of a brand
+ positive reputation with industry
+ presumably a list of people willing to pay to watch pool
- a pool studio for video taping and live streaming that is expensive to maintain and is under utilized
- lack of capitalization
- an unproven and questionable entertainment format. By this I mean that if the PGA (probably the best capitalized individual sport on TV) developed a TAR like approach and tried to sell a three day one on one match between Adam Scott #2 in the world and Henrik Stenson #3 in the world where you watched them play from hole to hole for 3 straight rounds very few people would be interested. Especially if it was pay per view. And I am talking Golf & #2 versus #3 in the world, so, why would it work for pool?


Bonus Ball
+ reasonably well capitalized
+ interesting proposition of team competition that may lend itself better to TV for the masses
- a pool studio for video taping and live streaming that is expensive to maintain and under utilized
- lack of street cred
- questionable understanding of the industry
- poor industry relations due to rocky and somewhat aggressive launch


I lived in the air-conditioned, carpeted jungle of a Fortune 500 company for quite a while. Despite the dog eat dog environment one thing remained constant... leave your ego at the door and figure out how to make money. The venture had to succeed in order to pay all the salaries, bonuses & such that supported your lifestyle. This "group success focus" in order for individuals to prosper oftentimes led to compromise and strange bed fellows. And, it almost always led to profits and success.

Look at XM & Sirius satellite radio.... absolute competitors trying to drive each other out of business that merged to try to survive. Look at all the mergers in corporate America. Groups and individuals compromise and enemies join forces to survive and prosper. When 2 organizations have complimenting strengths and weaknesses there is much to be gained by joining forces to expand strengths and eliminate redundancies.

Why shouldn't "planet pool" work the same way as mainstream business? If it was an MBA program exercise where the background and current status of TAR and Bonus Ball was presented as a business problem there would be a compelling argument to merge the two and utilized the complimentary strengths of the organizations and people involved.

The one thing that is clear to me is that an entity made up of TAR and Bonus Ball would have far more to bring to market and far superior skill sets and resources than either have today individually.

It most likely won't happen... it is hard. It takes great effort and a greater amount of humility to listen, compromise and cooperate.

Something to think about

I just can't see it! Too much drama and WAY too much history between the two organizations. Mark Griffin is part owner of TAR and Justin just would not be disloyal to Mark.

Fat Chance

KD.

 

[jhanso18]

Some thoughts and comparisons between TAR & Bonus Ball as well as between "planet pool" and mainstream business.

Some positives (+) and negatives (-) below:

TAR (JCIN)
+ a visionary leader who is not afraid to take risks
+ an enduring love of the game
+ street cred
+ contacts within the industry
+ knowledge and experience with the industry
+ the beginnings of a brand
+ positive reputation with industry
+ presumably a list of people willing to pay to watch pool
- a pool studio for video taping and live streaming that is expensive to maintain and is under utilized
- lack of capitalization
- an unproven and questionable entertainment format. By this I mean that if the PGA (probably the best capitalized individual sport on TV) developed a TAR like approach and tried to sell a three day one on one match between Adam Scott #2 in the world and Henrik Stenson #3 in the world where you watched them play from hole to hole for 3 straight rounds very few people would be interested. Especially if it was pay per view. And I am talking Golf & #2 versus #3 in the world, so, why would it work for pool?


Bonus Ball
+ reasonably well capitalized
+ interesting proposition of team competition that may lend itself better to TV for the masses
- a pool studio for video taping and live streaming that is expensive to maintain and under utilized
- lack of street cred
- questionable understanding of the industry
- poor industry relations due to rocky and somewhat aggressive launch


I lived in the air-conditioned, carpeted jungle of a Fortune 500 company for quite a while. Despite the dog eat dog environment one thing remained constant... leave your ego at the door and figure out how to make money. The venture had to succeed in order to pay all the salaries, bonuses & such that supported your lifestyle. This "group success focus" in order for individuals to prosper oftentimes led to compromise and strange bed fellows. And, it almost always led to profits and success.

Look at XM & Sirius satellite radio.... absolute competitors trying to drive each other out of business that merged to try to survive. Look at all the mergers in corporate America. Groups and individuals compromise and enemies join forces to survive and prosper. When 2 organizations have complimenting strengths and weaknesses there is much to be gained by joining forces to expand strengths and eliminate redundancies.

Why shouldn't "planet pool" work the same way as mainstream business? If it was an MBA program exercise where the background and current status of TAR and Bonus Ball was presented as a business problem there would be a compelling argument to merge the two and utilized the complimentary strengths of the organizations and people involved.

The one thing that is clear to me is that an entity made up of TAR and Bonus Ball would have far more to bring to market and far superior skill sets and resources than either have today individually.

It most likely won't happen... it is hard. It takes great effort and a greater amount of humility to listen, compromise and cooperate.

Something to think about

One of the best posts I've read on this forum. Also could be applied to other parts and pieces, not just TAR and BB.

I thought to myself as a new comer to the game 4-5 years ago, why can't we all play nice for the purpose of moving the game forward. It's what we all want as enthusiasts. Over time I've seen just how jaded, and broken the community is. I wish I had the time and means to bring various things under one roof, and force people to play ball or go home. I still think that one or two options could have real success.

Thanks for your insight Joel!

All the best,

 

[watchez]

I don't see JCIN and Nathan working together - ever.

 

[poolhustler]

great post, but unfortunately dies with .......

....."leave your ego at the door."

:frown: :frown: :frown:

 

[sjm]

Let's leave the personalities out of this and consider the question of whether the WPBL could simultaneously oversee/own a concern focusing on one-on-one challenge matches between two top players.

I think there is some sense in the original post. A few of the synergies, which may or may not be enough to make the idea work, are obvious:

Ownership of a top flight arena that can be used for both ventures
Challenge matches could be done while top players are already in town for the WPBL
Production staff could be the same for both ventures, reducing production costs.

No idea whether such a joint venture would work, but it's a least worth talking about.

Then again, the WPBL management team has tended to take the view that pool games other than bonus ball were the reason pool was failing, that their new game changes everything. For them to get involved with another game now might, consequently, be difficult.

 

[joelpope]

I just can't see it! Too much drama and WAY too much history between the two organizations. Mark Griffin is part owner of TAR and Justin just would not be disloyal to Mark.

Fat Chance

KD.

Not excluding Mark in any way, the joint intellect, resources, customer base and market components of all three are better than with any two

My point is build on synergies and strengths while economizing on shared resources

 

[joelpope]

I don't see JCIN and Nathan working together - ever.

One of the offshoots of a merger is the elimination of costs where redundancies exist between the merging organizations.

Leadership has to make hard decisions about who stays and who does not

 

[jhanso18]

One of the offshoots of a merger is the elimination of costs where redundancies exist between the merging organizations.

Leadership has to make hard decisions about who stays and who does not

In merger situations, how often does a part owner get pushed out?

 

[joelpope]

In merger situations, how often does a part owner get pushed out?

Minority owners.... Quite often. Sometimes with compensation, really depends on ownership structure and deal structure

Majority owners, that would be a buy out versus merger

 

[Johnnyt]

Not excluding Mark in any way, the joint intellect, resources, customer base and market components of all three are better than with any two

My point is build on synergies and strengths while economizing on shared resources

One of the best posts about how a big part of pool can work. You sir are a very smart man. It's a shame so many bridges have been burned between the three groups.

I don't think Nate has any skin in Bonus Ball, so he wouldn't have to be part of the picture. I think the key here is for Larry (BB) and Mark G. to bury the hatchet. I would love to see it happen and end with world class players (2) matching up with an under card on TV, Bonus Ball going strong and on TV, and 16 player invites semi and finals on TV. Johnnyt

 

[kittykat]

This is a pipe dream! Nathan thinks he knows it all but has not even touched the surface of television producing. Justin would pound the crap out of him in about a week!

Mark is a good guy and Larry has been famous for taking investors money and wasting it. This is not his first business failure with investors money! Mark pays his bills! This marriage would never happen!

The studio is a complete white elephant! No seating really, no parking, no marketing to fill a crummy 100 seats and Chiborak refused to work with Diamond and chose a free Rasson table. That was another sign of no money and unwilling to make something happen with others in the industry. Who knows the whole story?

Well financed...that statement is very wrong. A regular season that was basically folded and a eleven game play-off is all the six or seven investors could muster. Embaressing train wreck! Bragging about a million dollar payment, get real, this was never going to happen.

TV??? Do you guys know how much revenue the WPBL would get if the were actually on TV? Zero! ESPN3 is not TV. I can watch all pool streamed on tv. You just need to do some reasearch! ESPN3 is a web channel...give me a break! Sorry but I have been told nightmares about this whole WPBL thing! Best thing will be for the doors to close and save more good money being poured into bad shite!

 

[joelpope]

This is a pipe dream! Nathan thinks he knows it all but has not even touched the surface of television producing. Justin would pound the crap out of him in about a week!

Mark is a good guy and Larry has been famous for taking investors money and wasting it. This is not his first business failure with investors money! Mark pays his bills! This marriage would never happen!

The studio is a complete white elephant! No seating really, no parking, no marketing to fill a crummy 100 seats and Chiborak refused to work with Diamond and chose a free Rasson table. That was another sign of no money and unwilling to make something happen with others in the industry. Who knows the whole story?

Well financed...that statement is very wrong. A regular season that was basically folded and a eleven game play-off is all the six or seven investors could muster. Embaressing train wreck! Bragging about a million dollar payment, get real, this was never going to happen.

TV??? Do you guys know how much revenue the WPBL would get if the were actually on TV? Zero! ESPN3 is not TV. I can watch all pool streamed on tv. You just need to do some reasearch! ESPN3 is a web channel...give me a break! Sorry but I have been told nightmares about this whole WPBL thing! Best thing will be for the doors to close and save more good money being poured into bad shite!

GOOD GOD! You could suck the light out of the sun.

Thanks for your valuable suggestion... Quite productive.

I'm assuming you are alone tonight on Valentine's Day and have time to spread a little sunshine.

 

[Black-Balled]

GOOD GOD! You could suck the light out of the sun.

Thanks for your valuable suggestion... Quite productive.

I'm assuming you are alone tonight on Valentine's Day and have time to spread a little sunshine.

Haha. Mucho funnyo.

Planet Pool is dead. I saw it happen. First it caught a Burgos, then an apt.

 

[Fast Lenny]

GOOD GOD! You could suck the light out of the sun.

Thanks for your valuable suggestion... Quite productive.

I'm assuming you are alone tonight on Valentine's Day and have time to spread a little sunshine.

No it is actually just Barry Bremner pretending to be a women, it is sad actually.

 

[Fast Lenny]

This is a pipe dream! Nathan thinks he knows it all but has not even touched the surface of television producing. Justin would pound the crap out of him in about a week!

Mark is a good guy and Larry has been famous for taking investors money and wasting it. This is not his first business failure with investors money! Mark pays his bills! This marriage would never happen!

The studio is a complete white elephant! No seating really, no parking, no marketing to fill a crummy 100 seats and Chiborak refused to work with Diamond and chose a free Rasson table. That was another sign of no money and unwilling to make something happen with others in the industry. Who knows the whole story?

Well financed...that statement is very wrong. A regular season that was basically folded and a eleven game play-off is all the six or seven investors could muster. Embaressing train wreck! Bragging about a million dollar payment, get real, this was never going to happen.

TV??? Do you guys know how much revenue the WPBL would get if the were actually on TV? Zero! ESPN3 is not TV. I can watch all pool streamed on tv. You just need to do some reasearch! ESPN3 is a web channel...give me a break! Sorry but I have been told nightmares about this whole WPBL thing! Best thing will be for the doors to close and save more good money being poured into bad shite!

The arena is 2/3 to 3/4 full almost every night now. Nathan has put on the best live billiard video production in the US besides Matchroom coming here with a huge budget for Mosconi Cup, the proof is in the video. If you are not Barry you are the closest thing to Bremner because that is where you get all your info from and the same mindset. Give it a rest and stop hating, they paid Barry Bremner off so they could get rid of him because he caused more harm then good. I would like to play Barry a challenge match for some money much like Barton and Lou are doing but he is all bark and no bite.

 

[kittykat]

I got all my info from Barry Bremner. That is no secret. It also is no secret that he was the one who developed the game of Bonus Ball and sold his shares to the WPBL because he knew, ( as did Nathan) that Larry was not going to have the million dollars he promised all the players. As a matter of fact, it even surprised him that they ran out of cash after two weeks and conned the players to play for another little bit before going on hiatus.

The game is exciting to play and although it has been changed from when Bremner had it a fast offensive game to the slower, more defensive and confusing game, it is still really good. I just don't like it when people twist the truth. When he puts out his ebook, the truth will be black and white.

I've seen him playing this summer, but not lately. I hear he is playing very well now that Tommy Kennedy has corrected his game. You might just be sucking the hind tit Lenny. I saw you play at the arena. He moved back to Canada but he showed me his new game that he has developed that blows Bonus Ball away. He actually hopes the WPBL makes it but simple mathimatics spells defunct the minute there six or seven investors say enough is enough! I'll pass your message on!

Kitty