Simonis 960
- Thread starter Greg/Diamond
- Start date
Greg
I dont believe that room owners will be up for this idea. Most are just now getting used to putting 860 on there bar tables. There liking the idea of faster tables and more balls going in. Most wouldnt want to go to slower cloth just for this reason. I do about 150 bar tables every year. 80 % with 860. Now on a personal opinion. Yes I would like it. Because you would have to use your stroke more to get the cue ball around the table. But dealing with the room owners I am sure they would still want 860 on there tables. Its all about making the money with owners. Faster cloth equals more balls pocketed equals more money in the table!! Faster cloth also equals players with out a good stroke can still get around the table.
Of course a room owner or vendor has the right to use any cloth they want, but I'm not convince that a marginally slower cloth will result in less coin drop. In fact it might be just the opposite. A somewhat slower cloth may allow for a more controlled cue ball resulting in more balls pocketed and more racks run. Also more players who like slower cloth and are enjoying themselves may play more often and longer. I say needs to be tested.
On another note many 7ft tables are on time. Especially in pool rooms with leagues. Where enjoyment means more.
It would be nice to have a 7' table play like a scaled down 9' table. With slower cloth, I could use close to the same stroke and speed for position on both tables.
Bingo. I agree. Johnnyt
If they make this cloth I will definitely switch my oversize 8' to it from the 860 that's on it now. My cloth is over two years old and it seems almost as fast as when it was first put on. I'm constantly overrunning my intended position with the 860, even though my table is considerably bigger than a BB. I want good quality cloth, but slower would be better for me.
IIRC a member who plays the game said it is very fast. It looks slow in play because the tiny balls don't have the mass to have a lot of momentum, so they just kinda die when they slow down.
Thank you. Johnnyt
Anyone claiming fast cloth makes the game too easy, isn't making sense.
The game is infinitely easier on slower cloth. You can hold any cut, you don't overrun shape,
you don't need much touch. Hitting 20% too hard on slow cloth, won't affect you as much
as it would on fast cloth. Basically it gives you a much bigger margin for error on your speed control.
You need very good touch to move the cue ball with precision on fast cloth in tight quarters,
where being a few inches off can leave you hooked or way too thin.
I'm in the minority but I have no problem with a fast barbox. I enjoy a finesse game.
I don't get people's apparent need to muscle the ball around like they're macho
and have to win the biggest stroke contest. Anyway, it's not like I need to be Earl Strickland
to draw acrossa little 7 foot table.
If you guys feel the barbox is too easy, the 9 footer is right over there.
I think for the good of pool in general, let's move towards a simple, consistent standard.
860 by default on everything except carom tables, and be done with it.
The game is infinitely easier on slower cloth. You can hold any cut, you don't overrun shape,
you don't need much touch. Hitting 20% too hard on slow cloth, won't affect you as much
as it would on fast cloth. Basically it gives you a much bigger margin for error on your speed control.
You need very good touch to move the cue ball with precision on fast cloth in tight quarters,
where being a few inches off can leave you hooked or way too thin.
I'm in the minority but I have no problem with a fast barbox. I enjoy a finesse game.
I don't get people's apparent need to muscle the ball around like they're macho
and have to win the biggest stroke contest. Anyway, it's not like I need to be Earl Strickland
to draw acrossa little 7 foot table.
If you guys feel the barbox is too easy, the 9 footer is right over there.
I think for the good of pool in general, let's move towards a simple, consistent standard.
860 by default on everything except carom tables, and be done with it.
NO, and Somonis is not the only cloth to put on any table. Johnnyt
Whenever I played on Diamond BB I always felt like I had to dispose of my stroke and just tap balls around, more to do with the cushion speed than the cloth imo as it is not this way on a 9ft, there seems to be an imbalance between bed speed and rail speed for a 7ft table they just don't seem in sync. Killing the the CB off a rail is always a real pain from distance.
This is exactly how I feel. Please let's keep it consistent.
There are give and takes to both slow and fast cloth. While moving the cue ball around the table is harder on slow cloth it's my opinion that the pockets are more forgiving as the object ball "bites" the pocket facings more and pulls the ball in. I think the opposite with fast cloth, easier to move the cue ball but it makes the pockets a little tougher than slow cloth (once the cloth is worn in). I think you see a lot more balls "double up" in the pocket with fast cloth than slow. JMO.
Greg may be onto something here with a "happy medium" cloth....
EDIT- And before someone says "you said it's better for operators because games go faster on fast cloth". That is because of speed alone. The balls travel further, have more collisions and have more chance of reaching a pocket, whether it be on the break or slopped in. That's why I noted it being so much of a factor with rail bangers.
Greg may be onto something here with a "happy medium" cloth....
EDIT- And before someone says "you said it's better for operators because games go faster on fast cloth". That is because of speed alone. The balls travel further, have more collisions and have more chance of reaching a pocket, whether it be on the break or slopped in. That's why I noted it being so much of a factor with rail bangers.
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I was going to post on this thread earlier but got busy with work.
You are not in the minority in my opinion, I couldn't agree more with your particular point of view. I very much prefer a faster table myself. Small errors are accentuated which puts a premium on precise cue ball control.
In contrast to some of the other posts, I would venture to say that an accomplished player with a smooth, powerful stroke would actually prefer a faster table. I'm sure most would agree that SVB has a particularly smooth and powerful stroke, yet he seems to fair well on fast bar boxes. :thumbup:
Steve H.
I just want to take the time to say thank you Greg. Its wonderful to have someone with your passion and drive to improve involved with pool.
I believe that it would be good. I think that the more choices that you have, the better. That is a unique trait of pool. We have many different games and all with different rules. The diversity in games and rules keeps people interested and avoids boredom.
Greg, I would add a vote for the return of a few big cue balls also. I'm guessing that they wouldn't be compatible with your tables though. I hated playing with those things, but sure loved to watch the masters that could work magic with them... OK, maybe the big cue balls are taking it too far.
Respect, Courage, and Commitment!
Greg, I would add a vote for the return of a few big cue balls also. I'm guessing that they wouldn't be compatible with your tables though. I hated playing with those things, but sure loved to watch the masters that could work magic with them... OK, maybe the big cue balls are taking it too far.
Respect, Courage, and Commitment!
Do you believe that 960 could also result in longer life expectancy of the cloth? Heavier cloth equals more wear? That would certainly appeal to room owners, even if the cost were higher, because of reduced labor costs. I have no indication that the first statements are correct. I just remember the drawbacks for room owners considering nappy vs 760 in the early 90's.
Respect, Courage, and Commitment!