Great mechanics but horrible shot making, can it happen?

hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
By horrible shot making I mean missing a ball less than a foot from the pocket with only a few feet between the cueball and the object ball.

I ran into a guy this weekend playing, he had what looked to be an OK cue, had a good stance, a nice level stroke, did not do anything funny with his body or head. Yet he would miss shots that looked so easy you'd have to be a rank beginner to miss. I did not play with him, but the shots he'd miss with that good stance and stoke dumbfounded me totally.

Before anyone says he was trying to look bad to get a game, this is not a "palyers" room, the most gambling that happens is a game of 3-6-9 for a buck a ball every week LOL. He was also playing with a few friends that came in later and looked the same, got down on the ball, looked to be lined up with the shot from where I was, and would miss by an inch from less than a foot away.

I just don't see how you can get good enough to look that good in your stoke, yet not be able to make a simple shot. Has anyone ran into this before?
 
hang-the-9 said:
By horrible shot making I mean missing a ball less than a foot from the pocket with only a few feet between the cueball and the object ball.

I ran into a guy this weekend playing, he had what looked to be an OK cue, had a good stance, a nice level stroke, did not do anything funny with his body or head. Yet he would miss shots that looked so easy you'd have to be a rank beginner to miss. I did not play with him, but the shots he'd miss with that good stance and stoke dumbfounded me totally.

Before anyone says he was trying to look bad to get a game, this is not a "palyers" room, the most gambling that happens is a game of 3-6-9 for a buck a ball every week LOL. He was also playing with a few friends that came in later and looked the same, got down on the ball, looked to be lined up with the shot from where I was, and would miss by an inch from less than a foot away.

I just don't see how you can get good enough to look that good in your stoke, yet not be able to make a simple shot. Has anyone ran into this before?
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You should have come and introduced yourself...
 
I see this all the time..............

hang-the-9 said:
By horrible shot making I mean missing a ball less than a foot from the pocket with only a few feet between the cueball and the object ball.

I ran into a guy this weekend playing, he had what looked to be an OK cue, had a good stance, a nice level stroke, did not do anything funny with his body or head. Yet he would miss shots that looked so easy you'd have to be a rank beginner to miss. I did not play with him, but the shots he'd miss with that good stance and stoke dumbfounded me totally.

Before anyone says he was trying to look bad to get a game, this is not a "palyers" room, the most gambling that happens is a game of 3-6-9 for a buck a ball every week LOL. He was also playing with a few friends that came in later and looked the same, got down on the ball, looked to be lined up with the shot from where I was, and would miss by an inch from less than a foot away.

I just don't see how you can get good enough to look that good in your stoke, yet not be able to make a simple shot. Has anyone ran into this before?
Click to expand...

Many players have the skill level with the cue and the stroke way up there. On a scale of 1 to 9 they are up around 7 to 9.

But the skill level as far as the eyes being right are around 3 to 5.

You can have the straightest shooting gun but if the sights are not right on you will always miss the target the same way.

This is most of the trouble with players that are rated 3's in APA . The eyes are so far off that they can't see the shot correctly.

Once a player learns where these eyes need to be manually instead of instinctually the results are unreal.

What happens here is the non dominant eye is being allowed to work like the dominant eye just a little bit giving the wrong picture to the brain.

If the player could hit a million balls a week they could get there naturally.

Or you could just learn how this is done with the eyes and they results are great for everyone.

Now the person can improve because they can actually envision the shot correctly.

This is what I teach.

Have this person call me and I will do my FREE phone lesson with them. 715-563-8712

You will see that the results will be rediculously good.
 
I saw this one time. In a players room this one guy, probably 20, had an amazing stroke. It was silky smooth and loose, like Bustys. The guy was also of Philippine heritage to boot.

He played almost every day, in a room full of top players. But he never got past a low C level in the couple years he was coming in.
 
rellek said:
Some people just can't aim.
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This. We have a guy on our 8ball APA team that has a great stance, solid stroke, and makes sure his PSR is the same each time, but he can't run 2 balls, because he flat out can't aim.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Sure, seen it lots of times. Some people are just not very naturally talented, or have some sort of issue with their eyes.

Oddly enough the perfect mechanics and poor play combo seem more common in women players. I think maybe women are better at getting instruction from the start than men. If you see rank beginners playing completely wrong, with unstable stances, bridges that are terrible etc. it is hard not to say something. But if they are male you quickly learn not to say anything, as they usually respond negatively or even angrily to even the most polite suggestions. They usually work it out for themselves though, but it takes some time.

Women on average tend to respond a bit more positively to suggestions and therefore have better mechanics through the early learning phase. They still miss shots, but their mechanics look great at least. That is my theory on the matter.
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I'm actually hoping to see him there again as I really wanted to find out how he got good mechanics with such poor aim. But I was hesitant as to how to talk to him. "hey how are you? So.. why do you suck so bad at making shots?" LOL had a tough time thinking about a way to find out what was going on there without sounding like a jerk :smile:
 
hang-the-9 said:
I'm actually hoping to see him there again as I really wanted to find out how he got good mechanics with such poor aim. But I was hesitant as to how to talk to him. "hey how are you? So.. why do you suck so bad at making shots?" LOL had a tough time thinking about a way to find out what was going on there without sounding like a jerk :smile:
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how about
gee your stance and stroke look great
did you take lessons?
after he answers this you can ask him his aiming system....:rolleyes::)
 
hang-the-9 said:
I'm actually hoping to see him there again as I really wanted to find out how he got good mechanics with such poor aim. But I was hesitant as to how to talk to him. "hey how are you? So.. why do you suck so bad at making shots?" LOL had a tough time thinking about a way to find out what was going on there without sounding like a jerk :smile:
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It might work out with bangers that you can ask him to play a few games together (for fun of course). If he has an interest in the game beyond just the social aspect of it, he will see that you can play, and might start asking you questions. Then you can get into a mini discussion, and you can even lead it in a direction you want, without coming across as a know it all (since he started asking questions after seeing you play). Of course it might not work this way, but sometimes it can.

Good luck.
 
hang-the-9 said:
I ran into a guy this weekend playing, he had what looked to be an OK cue, had a good stance, a nice level stroke, did not do anything funny with his body or head. Yet he would miss shots that looked so easy you'd have to be a rank beginner to miss.
Click to expand...

Was his name Stevie Wonder???

Maniac
 
genomachino said:
This is most of the trouble with players that are rated 3's in APA . The eyes are so far off that they can't see the shot correctly.
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Sorry Gene, I can't agree with that. Most 3's in APA have relatively poor or very poor fundamentals. Their aiming may not be very good and/or their visual alignment may be poor but it is mostly irrelevant as they can't make a proper bridge, their stance/alignment is horrible and they couldn't deliver a straight stroke 1 out of 10 times if their life depended on it.

I'd go as far as to say that most APA skill levels suffer more from stroke and fundamentals flaws than they do from aiming flaws.
 
after reading some of the responses in the "how to shoot this shot" thread who the heck knows what goes through some players minds but I now have a much better understanding of why they miss :p
 
Let me explain this further.............

hang-the-9 said:
By horrible shot making I mean missing a ball less than a foot from the pocket with only a few feet between the cueball and the object ball.

I ran into a guy this weekend playing, he had what looked to be an OK cue, had a good stance, a nice level stroke, did not do anything funny with his body or head. Yet he would miss shots that looked so easy you'd have to be a rank beginner to miss. I did not play with him, but the shots he'd miss with that good stance and stoke dumbfounded me totally.

Before anyone says he was trying to look bad to get a game, this is not a "palyers" room, the most gambling that happens is a game of 3-6-9 for a buck a ball every week LOL. He was also playing with a few friends that came in later and looked the same, got down on the ball, looked to be lined up with the shot from where I was, and would miss by an inch from less than a foot away.

I just don't see how you can get good enough to look that good in your stoke, yet not be able to make a simple shot. Has anyone ran into this before?
Click to expand...

Imagine putting a rifle under your right eye. Now close your right eye and try to shoot it with your left eye but leave the eye in the same place.

We know that won't work because your left eye is not lined up on the sights.

Again This obviously will not work.

This is exactly what is happening with players like this. The non dominant eye is lined up on the natural sight of the shot but the player cannot tell.

The more off the eyes the worse the player shoots.

But this actually happens to every player. just not to this degree.

When I do mini lessons at poolhalls I like to start it off by showing a 3 rated player how to get the eyes lined up.

Most 3's that have played for a long time and havn't improved much have the non dominant eye trying to do the aiming.

Usually a 3 cannot make a straight in shot from about 6 feet long.

After watching them miss this shot about 7 or 8 times i tell everyone there, that in about 15 minutes i will have this person make this shot 5 to 10 times in a row.

The reaction to my statement is usually pretty funny.

The player has never failed to make it 5 to 10 times in a row.

I've done this over 200 times for sure, maybe more.

To help a 3 do this almost seems like a miracle to them and the other players.

The skill level of the player pretty much coincides with how well they naturally get the eyes in the most correct position.

I've been trying to tell the world this for about 5 years now but only the lucky ones have listened. and learned how to do this manually.

Depending on the brain to sort this out is hit and miss to say the least.

If you can line the sights up on the target with a gun anyone can hit the target.

it's the same with pool.

The shill level with the cue is always way ahead of the eyes.

In this case it is very obvious.
 
There's a guy in our weekly tournament this reminds me of. He plays twice a week for God knows how many months now. I could leave him with three balls for a Hondo and I'm come out winner every time. He made it to finals one night, winning every match on his opponent scratching on 8 or knocking it in early. His opponent in finals let him win just to boost him up a little. The guys got heart I'll give him that...
 
I hesitate writing this but here it goes.

If this is the Saturday extravaganza at J's and it was scotch doubles, it could have been me. However, there is no piano at J's but there is one at the B. Cafe next to the Snooker table. I don't play much at the B. Cafe because I have a hard time with the lighting (two lights per table with IMHO a dim high efficiency bulb in each). At least they are not bright enough for my liking. A couple of those players this last Saturday in that rotating team game are A/A- players (tournament proven) and the others are probably B level except for the beginner. :smile: Next time, feel free to jump in as it is a bunch of fun and you will be surprised how easy it is to lose your rhythm playing doubles. BTW - it's 1/1/2 progressive.

To Geno's point and if it was me, I have been fighting my eyes. My line changes depending on where I place my head with respect to the cue during the same shot. I need to move my head more to the right. Recently, I have found a longer bridge and moving further back seems to help. Juror still out on this. I am still experimenting to find the optimum spot. Sometimes getting up or looking at the shot again from a more upright view helps. Another funny thing, it can vary from day to day. Hit the spot make the ball one day and the next day hitting the spot and not making it the next. I worked real hard to hone the mechanics to eliminate all the things that could cause or explain the misses. It all helped and made me realize there was something else going on. So, I set up a series of reference shots and found out that what I was seeing was not the correct straight line from my eye down the stick to the CB to the spot of the OB dead center into the pocket. I have noticed that I see two images out of my right eye by itself. If is not as pronounced when I looked through both eyes. I am going to have an eye exam in the near future to see if something is going on that can be corrected.

If it wasn't me, sorry for taking up this space and I won't detract from this thread.

BTW - if it was me, no offense will be taken. If wasn't, the other guy might not appreciate it. :D
 
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