How strong is strong but not too strong

7

7forlife

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So i couldn't figure out how to word the title but here is was i meant.

So i'm moving around watching some pool and thinking and figured i'd ask the internet. How strong does a player have to be to even be considered as "strong" but not strong enough to move up a level. We're talking all walks of players

how strong can a C be to be called "he's a really strong C" but not quite a B

how strong can an Open player be without being called an Open Pro (this one for me is kind of touchy cause i've seen players lately be called a pro when i was like "when did he become a pro" but any way)

So how would you go about explaining this or as a tournament director how would you manage this, what the cut off point?


aaaaaaaaaaand, GO!
 
I think consistency is what usually separates two players of equal skill sets.
Unless consistency is a skill, then never mind.
 
I would consider a strong C to be a player that has all the physical tools to be a B player, but everything just hasn't fallen together yet and he still loses to actual B players most of the time for whatever reason, probably mental.
 
And does the same go for all the other players? When would you move an A to the open class or the AA as some places have
 
So it would be based on their win average and not if they cash, or does one compliment the other
 
what if that persons wins only come against theie equals. Say for example this player crushes his fellow C,A or what have you but loose to their higher rank player, or even perhaps crack upder the pressure of the semis and never cash. it would be like a pro who makes it in the final 6 or four but never won the tourney.

do you raise this player cause they are too strong for their level and let them do their development in a new brack, perhaps because the are "too strong" for their fellow ranked players
 
7forlife said:
do you raise this player cause they are too strong for their level and let them do their development in a new brack, perhaps because the are "too strong" for their fellow ranked players
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In a word, I would say yes. Sometimes it is a gray area where they are too strong for one level, but not strong enough to be competitive in the next level up. It happens sometimes, especially if you don't have a lot of levels. Whether you let them stay in the level they are too strong for, or move them into the next higher level where they aren't very competitive is really up to the person running the tournament or league or whatever it is. But I would say that what is most commonly done is that once they are too strong for their level, and overly dominate it, they are moved up, whether they are competitive in the next level or not. You generally will be one of the bottom guys every time you are raised to a new level and you just have to work your way up like you did in the last level.
 
This issue is why I stopped playing pool years ago.

Its far too easy to sandbag and mess with averages, etc. There's just no easy answer to this question for anyone trying to fudge the system IMO.

I'm never going to be "open strong" so I'm just not interested. Play straight up or not at all - And since I relatively suck, its not at all.

For all the comments about tools and consistency, etc - I agree, but this assumes that no one is missing a shot on purpose to sandbag.
 
7forlife said:
So i'm moving around watching some pool and thinking and figured i'd ask the internet. How strong does a player have to be to even be considered as "strong" but not strong enough to move up a level. We're talking all walks of players

how strong can a C be to be called "he's a really strong C" but not quite a B
Click to expand...

How would we know on the internet? None of us have any room to move up any higher. Us internet players are all at the very top of the game, can't you read that from our posts? :thumbup:
 
It's all about consistency.

A "B" player hitting a gear one night and playing "A" speed, does not mean they are an A player.
 
When I saw the thread title, I figured the subject was coffee, and I decided to make me some strong, but not too strong coffee.

More to the point of the thread, I don't think that moving up means that you will be average in the new class. You should move up to "A" if you are an "A" on your average day.
 
Until there's a proven measuring stick or ??? it will always be a nebulous moving target. Seemingly the snooker world has it figured out....till the game matures and evolves into a sport, its business as usual in the ''Pool Shark'' pond.
 
7forlife said:
what if that persons wins only come against theie equals. Say for example this player crushes his fellow C,A or what have you but loose to their higher rank player, or even perhaps crack upder the pressure of the semis and never cash. it would be like a pro who makes it in the final 6 or four but never won the tourney.

do you raise this player cause they are too strong for their level and let them do their development in a new brack, perhaps because the are "too strong" for their fellow ranked players
Click to expand...

Cracking under pressure factors into skill. Also, If there is a player like that, you probably have too wide a gap between your rankings.
 
playa9 I do agree with you but I also very much agree with some of the guys who replied after.

There really is no easy answer for this to some extent "not counting sandbagging", just a straight up player who often gets labelled as "wow, this guy is strong for a B" so then why is he still a B or when is he going to go up to a B+ or A depending on the league. I have more so seen this happen with the ladies where they are C's for ever and getting all kinds of spots sometimes cashing but remain at the C classification.

I was just asking this cause it crossed my mind recently but then realized that I fell victim to it (kind of) in the past. When I started as a C+ most didn't think that I should be a C+, but I believe in practice and love to do it, so as time pass by when you match up against a B or above player and beat them with some good play on a day that you happen to be playing good the complaints start coming out "Why is this guy a C+?" as though you're suppose to stay at a level your whole life, or just because that person hasn't advanced in months or years. So end result after the complaints come from the right people is you get moved up because your peers can't stand loosing to you any more.
 
7forlife said:
playa9 I do agree with you but I also very much agree with some of the guys who replied after.

There really is no easy answer for this to some extent "not counting sandbagging", just a straight up player who often gets labelled as "wow, this guy is strong for a B" so then why is he still a B or when is he going to go up to a B+ or A depending on the league. I have more so seen this happen with the ladies where they are C's for ever and getting all kinds of spots sometimes cashing but remain at the C classification.

I was just asking this cause it crossed my mind recently but then realized that I fell victim to it (kind of) in the past. When I started as a C+ most didn't think that I should be a C+, but I believe in practice and love to do it, so as time pass by when you match up against a B or above player and beat them with some good play on a day that you happen to be playing good the complaints start coming out "Why is this guy a C+?" as though you're suppose to stay at a level your whole life, or just because that person hasn't advanced in months or years. So end result after the complaints come from the right people is you get moved up because your peers can't stand loosing to you any more.
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No rating will ever be perfect. The only solution to playing with a "handicap" in one of those tournaments is to NOT play. If you're going to, bite your tongue and if you have an issue with anything, you speak of it after. No T.D. is perfect, nor should you expect them to be. ESPECIALLY at an amateur-run tournament. Gauging someone's skill level is one of the toughest things possible, because it will fluctuate all the time. People will always complain no matter what. It's pretty funny now that I've played somewhere basically every weekend for the past 5 months that no matter where you go, you're bound to find someone complaining or someone making an excuse.

How are you going to determine a C to a C+ if a C goes to 5 games and a C+ goes to 6? There's literally no difference whatsoever. But wait --- there has to be, right?
 
Yes there has to be and that would be a player who is between levels, just as other have mentioned rating are going to be based on an average. Perhaps the C+ player can run a few more balls than the C or perform a few more shots better, but he's no B. And as you mentioned it's up to those running the tourney to decide what levels there will be.

I happen to like it for the above mentioned reasons, a player being between levels. This allows for better turn out on an amateur level and a gradual increase in skill levels. Amateurs are not going to come out in droves just to get their A$$ handed to them in a bracket that they don't belong.
 

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