Who knows the story of Efren surfacing in America?

Celtic said:
I have always expected there is earlier happenings then the Red's tournament that likely occurred.

It makes little sense for a world beater and gambler to jump off the plane from the Philippines, enter a pro event, and win it.

I have no doubt that Red's was something of a "coming out" thing for Mr. Caesar Morales and not the start of his USA experience.

I would love to hear about his true earliest matches in the USA when he was completely unknown and simply matching up under the radar. Anyone after Red's knew to a degree what they were getting into. I want to hear about "Efren" getting spotted the 6 out by some short stop who could not beat Efren if he was "getting" that.

I am guessing a guy like Buddy and his backers would have gave a pretty decent spot to Efren prior to Red's when people really had no clue who he was.

Or was he really "that" unknown? Did the top guys in the world have rumors of a few of these phenoms that existed overseas? Parica was already around and he knew Efren, and Parica was already a feared player in the USA and thus the pros knew there were some monsters developing over there.

I would love to hear about what Efren did "before" Red's.
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Parica was the beginning...but there were rumors of even better Filipino players that hadn't made it over yet. It's always been my understanding that Efren's name was known, but he hadn't been seen in the U.S. yet when he came to Red's...he got all the action he could as Cesar Morales, but the cat got out of the bag before he left. He came back as Efren, couldn't hide from anybody after that. Maybe Efren came earlier, or maybe he had tons of action in the run up to Red's. Hopefully Jay Helfert will chime in, he saw the whole Philippine invasion from the start....:)
 
I watched him play when he was 'Caesar Morales.' He was never alone. He never even had to speak. He was always surrounded by the Filipino syndicate. We didn't even know if he understood English. You couldn't get near him. He was well protected.

I never saw him make a game for himself in those early days. That was all done for him. He just played --- and boy could he play.
 
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FranCrimi said:
I watched him play when he was 'Caesar Morales.' He was never alone. He never even had to speak. He was always surrounded by the Filipino syndicate. We didn't even know if he understood English. You couldn't get near him. He was well protected.

I never saw him make a game for himself. That was all done for him. He just played.
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Fran: Where these guys from the L.A. area? Do you know where he landed first? Did they run any of the other newly arrived Filipinos, like Busty or Andam? I always wondered about that...I was always curious how the "invasion" worked and how they all ended up in Pulyat's stable...how the syndicate worked here and in the Philippines. Where they connected? Competing syndicates? Would make a great book/movie...

I was born about 10 years too late...by the time I was gambling/playing I only got to hear the stories. :frown:
 
bdorman said:
After the tournament they played for $20,000. Efren got out to an early lead (I think running racks of 9-ball), let's say 10-1, race to 20. Someone challenged to double the bet, which they did. Efren made a mistake, Buddy got to the table and won 20-14. The $40k loss was the lion's share of what Efren had won that week.
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I'm not much of a gambler, but I question the details of this story. Doubling the bet to $40k such that Buddy wins 19 racks before Efren could win 10 (at that point of the match)? I don't doubt at all that Buddy beat Efren for the cash, but doubling the bet under those specific conditions doesn't seem quite realistic, especially considering they've already had a glimpse of how Efren played.
 
jsp said:
I'm not much of a gambler, but I question the details of this story. Doubling the bet to $40k such that Buddy wins 19 racks before Efren could win 10 (at that point of the match)? I don't doubt at all that Buddy beat Efren for the cash, but doubling the bet under those specific conditions doesn't seem quite realistic, especially considering they've already had a glimpse of how Efren played.
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Yeah, I agree. Freddy the Beard (Get Well Freddy!!) was there and was in with Keith when Efren played him.

Freddy said "Buddy was getting over a drunk and Efren hadn't slept in over a day. However, as good as he was playing, his loss to Buddy never made sense to me. Efren offered everybody there the 15 ball in rotation. When he played in the race to 13 finals against Wade Crane. The filipinos were handing out a 3 game spot to anybody who wanted to bet on Wade. I went for it and lost. I couldnt believe anybody could spot Wade 3 games in a short race.
What I do know is that Efren and his people wanted to play again, and mysteriously, Buddy never played him again --ever. What does that tell you?"
 
What many people do not know is that the Pinoys had great players as far back as the late 1800s.
The World Champion at English Billiards HW Stevenson had been beating his opponents pretty handily and decided to go on a world tour to show his prowess.
In an account of his world travels, the champion told of being beaten badly by several players in the Phillipines.
He later went to Australia and played 12 year old Walter Lindrum , who also beat him up.
He quit playing.
 
kvinbrwr said:
There's a thread currently that is pretty much mimicking the stories I had heard about Efren surfacing in America. The way I've heard it (I think) Efren surfaced at a pool tourney called Red's and played as Cesar Morales, won, and proceeded to take on all comers gambling (including Earl and Hall maybe?) and mowed everyone down. Maybe ending up giving world beaters weight?

Anyway, that's sort of the way I heard and I'm sure there are guys here that saw some of this first hand? Maybe Jay wouldn't believe what he was hearing in LA and dispatched someone to play Efren (maybe getting a spot?) (was it Keith ?) and they got wacked (but I might have just made that up).

Was Efren alone?

I'd like to hear about it.

Thanks

Kevin
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I know the whole story but I ain't telling........at least not now. :smile:
I'm just too busy.

P.S. I see a lot of baloney on here already. For shame!
 
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Watched Efren at the Sands-Reno in '85

In 1985 at the Reno Sands tournament, the only bet that could be made was how many games someone might get against him in a race to 9. I was sitting right behind the two Filipinos with the briefcase (or briefcases) of money, when Efren played Ed Kelly. Cole Dickson walked up and asked to bet $1000 that Ed would get to 7. They put their heads together and replied "You bet $1000 Ed has to get to 8, you bet $2000 Ed has to get to 7." So Cole left and came back a few minutes later and said, "Ok $2000 Ed gets to 7." Efren won 9-7, Ed Kelly was the only player to get to 7 against Efren in that tournament. Efren played Earl in the finals. My memory might not be perfect but it went something like this. Efren wins the lag and breaks and runs 3. He makes a ball on the next break and appears to have a shot on the one. He over cuts the one and leaves it in the middle of the foot rail. The cue ball goes three rails and snuggles up to the back of the ball closest to the head rail. Earl misses, Efren runs out and then breaks and runs two more. The next break he plays almost the same safety again, leaving the one in the middle of the foot rail and the cue ball married to the back of the ball closest to the head rail. Now Earl starts to be himself and the crowd starts needling him to break his cue.......
 
gregcantrall said:
In 1985 at the Reno Sands tournament, the only bet that could be made was how many games someone might get against him in a race to 9. I was sitting right behind the two Filipinos with the briefcase (or briefcases) of money, when Efren played Ed Kelly. Cole Dickson walked up and asked to bet $1000 that Ed would get to 7. They put their heads together and replied "You bet $1000 Ed has to get to 8, you bet $2000 Ed has to get to 7." So Cole left and came back a few minutes later and said, "Ok $2000 Ed gets to 7." Efren won 9-7, Ed Kelly was the only player to get to 7 against Efren in that tournament. Efren played Earl in the finals. My memory might not be perfect but it went something like this. Efren wins the lag and breaks and runs 3. He makes a ball on the next break and appears to have a shot on the one. He over cuts the one and leaves it in the middle of the foot rail. The cue ball goes three rails and snuggles up to the back of the ball closest to the head rail. Earl misses, Efren runs out and then breaks and runs two more. The next break he plays almost the same safety again, leaving the one in the middle of the foot rail and the cue ball married to the back of the ball closest to the head rail. Now Earl starts to be himself and the crowd starts needling him to break his cue.......
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Are you sure this wasn't 1986 rather than 1985?
 
jay helfert said:
I know the whole story but I ain't telling........at least not now. :smile:
I'm just too busy.

P.S. I see a lot of baloney on here already. For shame!
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Jay: Please do tell! There've been crazy stories circulating for years. I'm sure most are B.S., but the real story is probably cooler.
 
Keith McCready said:
i have the real story. peolple on here are to mean.
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Keith, you truly are a living legend! Whatever you do, don't let these low life bottom feeding scumbags put you down! You're a wealth of knowledge! You're an icon!!! There's probably a half a million people out there that would love to be you just for an hour!
 
West Point 1987 said:
Fran: Where these guys from the L.A. area? Do you know where he landed first? Did they run any of the other newly arrived Filipinos, like Busty or Andam? I always wondered about that...I was always curious how the "invasion" worked and how they all ended up in Pulyat's stable...how the syndicate worked here and in the Philippines. Where they connected? Competing syndicates? Would make a great book/movie...

I was born about 10 years too late...by the time I was gambling/playing I only got to hear the stories. :frown:
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It would make a great book, but I don't know any more than what I observed. Other people got to be close with Efren over the years. They probably know the whole story.
 
jsp said:
I'm not much of a gambler, but I question the details of this story. Doubling the bet to $40k such that Buddy wins 19 racks before Efren could win 10 (at that point of the match)? I don't doubt at all that Buddy beat Efren for the cash, but doubling the bet under those specific conditions doesn't seem quite realistic, especially considering they've already had a glimpse of how Efren played.
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As I mentioned in my reply, this is my foggy memory of a story told by someone commentating during a match. I've probably got the exact scores and dollar amounts wrong, but it's not like I thought I'd be quizzed later on the material.

This much I remember: played after the tournament at Hall's request. Efren takes early lead. Bet doubled (I don't remember by whom). Hall won.

And I'm giving you this second-hand. I don't vouch for the commentator's accuracy.
 
bdorman said:
As I mentioned in my reply, this is my foggy memory of a story told by someone commentating during a match. I've probably got the exact scores and dollar amounts wrong, but it's not like I thought I'd be quizzed later on the material.

This much I remember: played after the tournament at Hall's request. Efren takes early lead. Bet doubled (I don't remember by whom). Hall won.

And I'm giving you this second-hand. I don't vouch for the commentator's accuracy.
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An old post of Keith's says that they pooled their money to have Buddy play Efren, $4k. They played two sets and Buddy won them both, iirc.
 
NK_Sniper said:
Thanks for the link. They should really make a documentary/biography of Efren.

This is a great interview to watch with Shane and Efren. Shanes asks Efren a lot of interesting questions and sometime towards the middle or end of it (ain't able check for it), he was asked to explain the Ceasar Morales story: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kL9ena6j6M

According to him, Ceasar Morales was a real person and was actually one of his close friends. He also said he had to use Morales' real passport to travel to the US (guess they both looked similar for that to work out).
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Efren could not qualify for a US visa as a visitor .
He had below high school education and did not speak English.
So, he used CM's passport.
 
Scott Lee said:
That's true. Efren ended up getting only a pittance of the actual money won. His Filipino backers took the rest. Efren learned quickly (and rightly so) to trust very few poolplayers...go figure...poolplayers being untrustworthy! LOL :eek: :grin:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Efren told my wife when they were sitting talking in the pool room through a guy who would interpret. She asked him something about playing at home. He told her before he came to the US he usually played for about $2.00 a game in the Philippines. I don't think he had the slightest idea the value of the money he was winning here. He probably didn't even know what was taken from him at the time. I am sure he learned pretty quickly.
 
Keith McCready said:
i have the real story. peolple on here are to mean.
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Precisely true.

Must have been amazing to be right at the top of the US pool scene and have some guy just show up that was way more than stiff competition, I can imagine nobody believed it at first.
 
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