SJM's Slant on the CSI 8-ball Scandal
- Thread starter sjm
- Start date
I hear you, and that would make it a kind of country vs. country match which would be cool. But the problem is that it would further encourage shenanigans in the round robin stage.
I'm starting to feel like elimination-style tournaments are just the better choice for a variety of reasons.
lol. Maybe with your help we can get this on "Conspiracy Theory" with Jesse Ventura.
There is no "testing the waters" or "fishing expedition" going on and you do not have so much as a scintilla of evidence to support such a wild claim. It is just your speculation.
Mark is busy with huge tournaments and thousands of players and will then have to oversee that wrap up of hundreds of tables at the Rio that were brought in. He will provide his explanation in due course. Hold your water. If it'll make it easier for you I'll tell you some stories about Roswell, Hanger 18, and Area 51.
Lou Figueroa
One must conclude that Ralf wanted 3rd place money rather than 5th place money and wasn't prepared to forfeit the difference in prize money. Seem to recall that you got $750 per match won if you were eliminated in the round robin, so had Ralf forfeited to Dennis, he'd have gone 1-2 and collected a total of $750 in the event. In contrast, he was paid 3rd place money, which I believe was $2,500. Hence, the cost of the forfeit would have been $1,750, not a figure to sniff at.
He's almost convinced me of his position! If he tries a fourth font style, size, or color in his next post, I just might see the light!
Ralf had worst rack differential -5 after 2 matches. If he forfeit or lost to Orcollo hill hill in last match, Ralf would be bottom of table. Shane would win group followed up Orcollo and Cheng and lastly Ralf
Prizemoney for 8 ball event same as for 10 ball event
http://www.azbilliards.com/tours_an...vitational-10-ball-championship-2014/results/
Which means Ralf would have gotten $500 for bottom of table but if he wins group and gets into semifinals he gets at least $2500 so an extra $2000. There is talk that CSI offered extra $250 for final match win so Ralf purse could have been $2750
There was mention by a source that Ralf got the cheque bit we do not know how much.. was it for full $2750 ? Shane was 2nd in group and won his last group match that means he gets about $1750. He was runner up to Baby Ko and it is $5250 for runner up. If Ralf got $2750 Shane's share would be $2500 plus his own 2nd in group prize $1750 so Shane gets about $4250
But it is not confirmed that Ralf really got the cheque. :grin:
All I can say is that I'm glad I wasn't there. I had flown home the night before for an important meeting with the city of Carson, CA. It all sounds like a total mess for everyone involved. So many differing opinions, all coming from people who I respect, leads me to believe there is no easy answer to this situation.
My feeling is it's over and done with, and let it go at that. All of the principals involved will learn a lesson in the future. I don't want to get involved in deciding who's right and who's wrong here. Let's just say they are all 'right' and all 'wrong' at the same time. No one can be the winner in a situation like this. Everyone loses when there is no clear correct way to handle something.
Sometimes you just have to man up and admit there was a fuc-up and let it go at that. Everyone involved has equal responsibility for the individual decisions they made during this incident. I wouldn't be so quick to point my finger at anyone! Sometimes it can be very difficult to decide the right thing to do in the heat of the moment. We are not all Solomon wise!
I don't think any of the parties involved acted with malice. It all happened somewhat in the spur of the moment and sometimes we say and do things on the fly that we would not have done given time to contemplate. ALL of us have done that and we know it. I can't tell you how many times I have said (or not said) something that I regretted later.
I will tell you this, there have been times as a tournament director, that a fair decision during a game was impossible to make and that I asked the players who broke the balls. When they told me I said "Rack 'em up and start the game over!"
My feeling is it's over and done with, and let it go at that. All of the principals involved will learn a lesson in the future. I don't want to get involved in deciding who's right and who's wrong here. Let's just say they are all 'right' and all 'wrong' at the same time. No one can be the winner in a situation like this. Everyone loses when there is no clear correct way to handle something.
Sometimes you just have to man up and admit there was a fuc-up and let it go at that. Everyone involved has equal responsibility for the individual decisions they made during this incident. I wouldn't be so quick to point my finger at anyone! Sometimes it can be very difficult to decide the right thing to do in the heat of the moment. We are not all Solomon wise!
I don't think any of the parties involved acted with malice. It all happened somewhat in the spur of the moment and sometimes we say and do things on the fly that we would not have done given time to contemplate. ALL of us have done that and we know it. I can't tell you how many times I have said (or not said) something that I regretted later.
I will tell you this, there have been times as a tournament director, that a fair decision during a game was impossible to make and that I asked the players who broke the balls. When they told me I said "Rack 'em up and start the game over!"
Last edited:
true. Ko probably said after they put Shane on, "whatever. let's play."
Don't put words in my mouth. I don't agree Ko should be forced to play. It is not a moral injustice that I am fine with. If it was me, an American, I would not and see Mr Griffin in court. But since Ko is not I can understand his dilemma. Get off your high horse.
And what "truth" am I unwilling to see? A Dump is a Dump and youre advocating that. If Shane did that it is he that should be banned from play not others who have upset Mark so.
It is not a matter of opinion so you don't have to agree with me or respect me in any way. A Dump suggestion is not to be respected. Im sorry you might be a great person or a great supporter of pool but to suggest a Dump is out of line. No sanctioning body would allow it. But this is not a sanctioned event by any other than Mr Griffin. Im not against him or you. I just want to call it like it is. Its Marks deal so he can call it like he sees it. Right or Wrong it doesn't matter does it?
Look Ive been around pool since the 60's and seen a lot of dumps. I was there when they dumped Phil Spector and every one knew it was going on. A dump for profit or for politics is the worse solution to the problem. The best thing for Shane was to walk away and say Im going back to South Dakota, I have a plane to catch, you play him.
I definitely see the possibility of players corroborating in the group stages BRRussell. Maybe they should consider a full round robin. That way the fans get to see every possible match up. Each players plays 15 matches. Could easily be done with playing 3 matches a day over 5 days.
Poor decisions made by Ralf as a pro player and Mark as a pro promoter.
But now the bigger question: Was there indeed a threat of "no play no pay" made to Ko? Unfortunately we may never find out...
I wouldn't be surprised if the Taiwanese pros never want anything to do with CSI in the future after this incident. And that's a shame because clearly CSI benefited greatly by having a good relationship with them. The Taiwanese pros have enough money games and tourneys around Asia, and definitely a lot more respect. They certainly don't need any of the hot mess this incident has created.
But now the bigger question: Was there indeed a threat of "no play no pay" made to Ko? Unfortunately we may never find out...
I wouldn't be surprised if the Taiwanese pros never want anything to do with CSI in the future after this incident. And that's a shame because clearly CSI benefited greatly by having a good relationship with them. The Taiwanese pros have enough money games and tourneys around Asia, and definitely a lot more respect. They certainly don't need any of the hot mess this incident has created.
Ya and we saw even better pool and better streaming in the world events all on the up and up and free to boot
1
Also may have ripple effect on other players in attendance. Ralf and Orcollo unlikely to come back. Other remaining 5 players may be spooked.
If they have 2nd edition next year (and that is an IF), they probably have better luck getting other players who did not come this year like Mika, Niels, Lee Van, etc :grin-square:
Last edited:
All I can say is that I'm glad I wasn't there. I had flown home the night before for an important meeting with the city of Carson, CA. It all sounds like a total mess for everyone involved. So many differing opinions, all coming from people who I respect, leads me to believe there is no easy answer to this situation.
My feeling is it's over and done with, and let it go at that. All of the principals involved will learn a lesson in the future. I don't want to get involved in deciding who's right and who's wrong here. Let's just say they are all 'right' and all 'wrong' at the same time. No one can be the winner in a situation like this. Everyone loses when there is no clear correct way to handle something.
Sometimes you just have to man up and admit there was a fuc-up and let it go at that. Everyone involved has equal responsibility for the individual decisions they made during this incident. I wouldn't be so quick to point my finger at anyone! Sometimes it can be very difficult to decide the right thing to do in the heat of the moment. We are not all Solomon wise!
I don't think any of the parties involved acted with malice. It all happened somewhat in the spur of the moment and sometimes we say and do things on the fly that we would not have done given time to contemplate. ALL of us have done that and we know it. I can't you how many times I have said (or not said) something that I regretted later.
I will tell you this, there have been times as a tournament director, that a fair decision during a game was impossible to make and that I asked the players who broke the balls. When they told me I said "Rack 'em up and start the game over!"
So right. Sometimes a simple "Im sorry, I effed up. Ill be better next time", is so much better. But to suggest that to "dump" a way out or that Orcollo "dumped" is the real corrupt thought.
We all have thanks to what CSI and Mr Griffin is doing. Tish happens. So lets get on with it and look forward to 2015.
Indeed.... :thumbup:
They happen to have several interpreters with them that can explain the English wording very well.
From my impressions based on having spoken to some the Taiwanese players - both in attendance this year and some that weren't.
The storyline coming out of this event was supposed to be the emergence of the Taiwanese players on a big American stage. Their strong play, rumored to us for years, was codified in our eyes by their brilliant play over the course of this tournament.
Instead, we are left with a terrible taste in our mouths as a result of this mess.
The Chinese have been loath to travel here for major events. It is a long way for them to get over here, and there is much more "incentive" (money and prestige) back overseas.
After the treatment of Ko this past week, I would be surprised if they would elect to participate in any events such as this in the future.
Instead, we are left with a terrible taste in our mouths as a result of this mess.
The Chinese have been loath to travel here for major events. It is a long way for them to get over here, and there is much more "incentive" (money and prestige) back overseas.
After the treatment of Ko this past week, I would be surprised if they would elect to participate in any events such as this in the future.
Honestly, aside from the US Open 10 Ball last year, there isn't any events that are I consider "big American stage." While that field was tough, the prize money was only 15,000. Chang Jung Lin came to the US Open 9 ball two years ago and quietly placed 5th. I believe that was his first time coming to the US, and probably one of the first few times he ever touched a Diamond table. Ko, I believe was there too. There was a streamed match of him that year earlier in the tournament when David Alcaide played perfect pool and beat him. While the US Open 9 Ball may seem like a big prestigious event here in the US, it probably doesn't mean as much to the Asian players aside from the prize money.