Players not being paid at US Open

A mess

Shoulda, woulda, coulda, ain't the first time and might not be the last time players are not paid. If the players from the US Open all got together and boycotted the US Open and reached out to another promoter with a commitment to attend a similar event with a different name, then maybe a competent and honest businessman with a proven track record would step up. It really looks like it is time for another big name and trusted person in the pool world to run and establish a North American 9 ball tournament that has a different name from the US Open. It has to start with the players, the problem plagued US Open won't last if only a very few top players attend. But, as long as "Pro Players" allow them selves to be disrespected and cheated out of owed monies on a yearly basis there is no incentive to change. I encourage every one associated with the US Open to stand together and force a change for the good of the pool world.
 
Bob Jewett said:
That's nice but for some of the foreign players it is a requirement of the IRS that he either withhold taxes or submit a 1099 with the player's TIN (taxpayer ID number).
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Bob,

I believe it should be a W8 BEN (not a 1099).


Eric
 
watchez said:
Post dating the checks for the beginning of November would make more sense to me than Oct 28th. Barry is probably waiting for his credit card purchases throughout the week (and month of October) to reconcile and be deposited in his account the beginning of the month. What funds he has coming in 7 days later I could only guess maybe a payment from Accu-Stats after the dust clears from all the PPV money.

His poor planning and business model of robbing Peter to pay Paul costs him countless of dollars each year. Maybe if you put money in the players pockets they might stick around and spend it in your business.
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Correct, however, there are probably other reasons why Barry needs to buy additional time to make all the checks right (i'm hoping) How would this do as an option for the players who need to make flights to go back home..to either another country or even to another state because of obligations that needed to be met. Why couldn't some one be appointed to be the "power of attorney" overseeing all players that aren't receiving their check but need to leave for whatever reason? A person with the highest integrity..like Pat Fleming? Pat would then do all the necessary work for the players and would guarantee payment..plus make arrangements for them to get their money.:cool: Of course for a small fee.:D I would think a 5% charge of the money owed would be some what in line.:kiss: I wouldn't have a problem with it, how about you?

Just something to think about for next year.:smile:

Bill Incardona
 
The bigger problem here is that holding tournaments is a money-losing exercise. Only crazy people are going to do it.

We need to get some humility. Instead of added money, tournaments need to have SUBTRACTED money, so the promoters take a bigger cut - or any cut - from running it. We have only a couple of major tournaments left in the US, and in this thread we have people clamoring for the biggest and most important one to be shut down.

Until our expectations are reset for pro pool tournaments, only crazy people will ever run them.
 
I'm not defending it, but there are actually big bowling tournaments that do the same thing. The ones with big added prize funds that rely on concessions and merchandise sales will post date 2 checks for the winners that you normally cash a week apart. It gives them a chance to see which area they are going to pull the prize money from ( bar, proshop cafe). I agree that the players should have known up front and I really hope that the funds are available when they cash these checks.

I'm sure if his reputation wasn't what it is people would be taking it a little easier on him but with his reputation being what it is I just hope the players get paid.
 
wincardona said:
Correct, however, there are probably other reasons why Barry needs to buy additional time to make all the checks right (i'm hoping) How would this do as an option for the players who need to make flights to go back home..to either another country or even to another state because of obligations that needed to be met. Why couldn't some one be appointed to be the "power of attorney" overseeing all players that aren't receiving their check but need to leave for whatever reason? A person with the highest integrity..like Pat Fleming? Pat would then do all the necessary work for the players and would guarantee payment..plus make arrangements for them to get their money.:cool: Of course for a small fee.:D I would think a 5% charge of the money owed would be some what in line.:kiss: I wouldn't have a problem with it, how about you?

Just something to think about for next year.:smile:

Bill Incardona
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This isn't a logistics issue we are dealing with here it's much simpler than that -- he doesn't have the money. He never has the money.

He has to scramble around every year to try and come up with the money.

It will be the same thing next year, as the long as the players continue to get paid -- even if they have to wait months -- they will continue to show up.

I suspect the players figure it's better to play in the tourney and get paid late than it is to not play at all.

Eventually, BB will run out of ways to come up with the money and that will conclude the tournament. That final year is when everybody will get screwed. Until then they will just continue to roll the dice. If I was in their shoes I would probably do the same.
 
Ak Guy said:
Shoulda, woulda, coulda, ain't the first time and might not be the last time players are not paid. If the players from the US Open all got together and boycotted the US Open and reached out to another promoter with a commitment to attend a similar event with a different name, then maybe a competent and honest businessman with a proven track record would step up. It really looks like it is time for another big name and trusted person in the pool world to run and establish a North American 9 ball tournament that has a different name from the US Open. It has to start with the players, the problem plagued US Open won't last if only a very few top players attend. But, as long as "Pro Players" allow them selves to be disrespected and cheated out of owed monies on a yearly basis there is no incentive to change. I encourage every one associated with the US Open to stand together and force a change for the good of the pool world.
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Would so much rather BB gave it up and then sold the rights or whatever and then the tradition, past champions, records etc come with it. 1000 percent better then leaving that all behind imo
 
wincardona said:
Correct, however, there are probably other reasons why Barry needs to buy additional time to make all the checks right (i'm hoping) How would this do as an option for the players who need to make flights to go back home..to either another country or even to another state because of obligations that needed to be met. Why couldn't some one be appointed to be the "power of attorney" overseeing all players that aren't receiving their check but need to leave for whatever reason? A person with the highest integrity..like Pat Fleming? Pat would then do all the necessary work for the players and would guarantee payment..plus make arrangements for them to get their money.:cool: Of course for a small fee.:D I would think a 5% charge of the money owed would be some what in line.:kiss: I wouldn't have a problem with it, how about you?

Just something to think about for next year.:smile:

Bill Incardona
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You want to charge the people being robbed [ because that's what it is] 5%? How bout the players pay the entry fees a week later? This is crazy talk.
 
BRussell said:
The bigger problem here is that holding tournaments is a money-losing exercise. Only crazy people are going to do it.

We need to get some humility. Instead of added money, tournaments need to have SUBTRACTED money, so the promoters take a bigger cut - or any cut - from running it. We have only a couple of major tournaments left in the US, and in this thread we have people clamoring for the biggest and most important one to be shut down.

Until our expectations are reset for pro pool tournaments, only crazy people will ever run them.
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Bingo. There is precious little money coming from sponsors, the live gate is relative peanuts, and the PPV money is wildly exaggerated. It's a niche game/sport that lots of people play but don't take that seriously, and people have completely unrealistic expectations.
 
BasementDweller said:
This isn't a logistics issue we are dealing with here it's much simpler than that -- he doesn't have the money. He never has the money.

He has to scramble around every year to try and come up with the money.

It will be the same thing next year, as the long as the players continue to get paid -- even if they have to wait months -- they will continue to show up.

I suspect the players figure it's better to play in the tourney and get paid late than it is to not play at all.

Eventually, BB will run out of ways to come up with the money and that will conclude the tournament. That final year is when everybody will get screwed. Until then they will just continue to roll the dice. If I was in their shoes I would probably do the same.
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He doesn't have the money because everyone expects him to just donate tens of thousands of dollars to the charity that is pro pool.

I'm curious: If next year the payouts are 75% of the entry fees, no added money, what will people say? Will they say Barry has his act together now, or will they complain that he's ripping people off?
 
The problem is Barry's not adding his own money, he's adding future earnings once received from the current event. If Barry has such great business acumen to run his pool hall and this great event for so long, doesn't he have any money in the bank?
 
Somehow it just dawned on him that less seats would mean less revenue? Fans and Sponsors were avoiding the Opens lately anyway because of his antics. Everyone knew it but him somehow. Just more horse crap. I doubt enough revenue will ever come in to fully pay off the checks though.
 
Hungarian said:
The problem is Barry's not adding his own money, he's adding future earnings once received from the current event. If Barry has such great business acumen to run his pool hall and this great event for so long, doesn't he have any money in the bank?
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He better not because if he does and just refuses to fund it for the alleged few weeks that are needed, than he really is a first class &%$$@@! I'd guess he is broke.
 
wincardona said:
Correct, however, there are probably other reasons why Barry needs to buy additional time to make all the checks right (i'm hoping) How would this do as an option for the players who need to make flights to go back home..to either another country or even to another state because of obligations that needed to be met. Why couldn't some one be appointed to be the "power of attorney" overseeing all players that aren't receiving their check but need to leave for whatever reason? A person with the highest integrity..like Pat Fleming? Pat would then do all the necessary work for the players and would guarantee payment..plus make arrangements for them to get their money.:cool: Of course for a small fee.:D I would think a 5% charge of the money owed would be some what in line.:kiss: I wouldn't have a problem with it, how about you?

Just something to think about for next year.:smile:

Bill Incardona
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Or Pat could do it for free since he is making all that money off the players with his PPV and DVD sales.
 
watchez said:
Or Pat could do it for free since he is making all that money off the players with his PPV and DVD sales.
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Gee Willikers, Watchez. Pat ain't making a killing on these DVDs. Number one, he gives the players royalty checks, meaning a percentage of the sales. Number two, he only goes to two events a year now due to the exhorbitant cost of moving all of the equipment and paying staff, et cetera.

Here's something to ponder. Someone could charge 10 percent for paying the players right away. They could give the player 90 percent of the monies owed and collect the full 100 percent later. I wouldn't mind giving up 10 percent to get paid right away. No different than a saver. :D
 
any life left in this horse?

I suppose many posters on this thread don't read the prior posts, so I wanted to put my last 2 cents into this:

1) I agree, it's not good, not to be paid immediately after, but if all checks clear, then all is well. (If I was traveling a long distance and was depending on winnings to get me home, I think that kind of thinking speaks for itself)
2) The man contributes many dollars out of his pocket for this event; he has done so in the past, and if all goes well, purportedly $70K plus into this one; most people griping and condemning on this thread are just putting 2 cents in.
3) The idea of escrow or third party has been suggested over and over, but in the end, it's Barry's money, so I doubt he's gonna let you control it unless he agrees to it
4) It's already been said by many, about somebody else doing the US OPEN
instead; fine, you go find somebody willing to put money and effort into a
business venture such as this.
5) So, the bottom line as I see it, it's Barry's US Open, and unless you can convince him to delegate the money handling to somebody else, he will obviously continue to do things whatever way he chooses.
 
jay helfert said:
I hear all of you loud and clear. Once again, to the best of my knowledge the bottom two thirds of the field from 17th thru 48th has been paid in full already. If this is not the case I would like to hear about it. I personally saw Roberta handing money to many of these players. It was all cash with zero deductions!

As for the higher finishers (1st thru 16th), most of them received checks (a few may have gotten cash as well) that were dated Oct. 28, a little more than one week out. A few of the top finishers (1st, 2nd and 3rd) received more than one check. They were dated one to two and three weeks out. If all these checks clear on time then this discussion becomes a moot point. If they don't clear I will be in agreement with all of you.

I do know that all players in the last two U.S. Opens have been paid in full in a timely matter, thanks in part to the intervention of Johnny Archer. This is Barry's opportunity to make good on his own. As I told him on Sunday, if he fails to make good on the checks then his event is in serious jeopardy, as most players will not return. This will also be the case if they bounce and he makes good at a later date. That would also be unacceptable in my eyes as well.

The difference this year then in past years is that two thirds of the field has already been paid in full and the remaining third walked away check in hand. If they ALL clear, then no harm no foul in my book. This is probably Barry's last chance to save his tournament. I know it's my final go round if he does not keep his promise. I got his personal assurance before I would go back that all players would get paid either at the event or shortly thereafter by check. Like you, I hope this is the case and we don't hear about checks bouncing. I know there is a lot of money coming due on Oct. 28, so that is the key date in my mind.

I know that I am giving Barry the benefit of the doubt here, but I for one would like to see the U.S. Open continue. It is the premier pool event in our country right now. In business I've learned to separate personalities from performance. There are some very eccentric characters who are astute businessmen. Take Donald Sterling for instance or Donald Trump. Some of the stuff they say and do defies description, since it's just so stupid. But yet they are very successful at what they do. Barry happens to own and run one of the most successful poolrooms in America and I can't think that's an accident.

Look this is a guy who thought it was funny for us to put on a pseudo boxing match prior to the start of the tournament. Part of me wished that there were no balloon-like gloves and maybe some eight ouncers to spar with. My father was a lightweight champion (132 pounds) in college at Buffalo U. and he taught me how to defend myself when I was a kid. I'm not a stranger to boxing. But after it was all over I realized that this is Barry's humor, to poke fun at himself and all his own foibles. So I took it in stride and went about my business. On the first day of the tournament someone opened a door quickly that hit me in the head, opening a deep gash above my eye. It took some doing just to staunch the flow of blood and I wore a bandage all week. It looks like there will be a small scar there forever. Maybe I should get a purple heart for this one. Barry delighted in telling everyone that he did this to me and I went along with it. It was our standing joke all week.

I hope for Barry's sake that he gets it right this time and everyone is satisfied sooner rather than later. I'd hate to see the U.S. Open go away.

P.S. Yes, I got paid in cash just before I left on Sunday. But my pay was somewhere down in the middle of the field range. I may have earned about $25-30 an hour for this gig! :rolleyes:
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Amen Brother Jay, As I said before I do believe Barry has good intentions and he would love for the OPEN to go smooth.
Jay I do hope that Barry does what he told you he was going to do and everybody will be happy!
 
BRussell said:
He doesn't have the money because everyone expects him to just donate tens of thousands of dollars to the charity that is pro pool.

I'm curious: If next year the payouts are 75% of the entry fees, no added money, what will people say? Will they say Barry has his act together now, or will they complain that he's ripping people off?
Click to expand...

If he's taking 250 out of a 1000? Damn right he's ripping them. But , the sheeple will show up anyway.
 
Hmm

wahcheck said:
I suppose many posters on this thread don't read the prior posts, so I wanted to put my last 2 cents into this:

1) I agree, it's not good, not to be paid immediately after, but if all checks clear, then all is well. (If I was traveling a long distance and was depending on winnings to get me home, I think that kind of thinking speaks for itself)
2) The man contributes many dollars out of his pocket for this event; he has done so in the past, and if all goes well, purportedly $70K plus into this one; most people griping and condemning on this thread are just putting 2 cents in.
3) The idea of escrow or third party has been suggested over and over, but in the end, it's Barry's money, so I doubt he's gonna let you control it unless he agrees to it
4) It's already been said by many, about somebody else doing the US OPEN
instead; fine, you go find somebody willing to put money and effort into a
business venture such as this.
5) So, the bottom line as I see it, it's Barry's US Open, and unless you can convince him to delegate the money handling to somebody else, he will obviously continue to do things whatever way he chooses.
Click to expand...

It sounds as if Barry will be writing one more check to you for your PR services.
 
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