Jeff Olney, What a stand up guy. NOT!!!!!!!!!!

[alstl]

Exactly ^^^^^^^
I sure had enough in my pocket to pay for MY new cue.
I myself am not just some kid wanting a new cue that I couldn't afford. But am a man with a family, with 2 kids and a wonderful wife. And a Job that pays me actual MONEY. and has for a long time.

Maybe, just MAYBE I was selling the other cues to buy something else.
Or, I only have one case, and needed to make room for the new one.
Really Don't matter what I was selling them for. But you detectives should waste time trying to figure it out.

And Keep bumping this thread up for me. Thanks

Brad, your brother did have 200.00 at one time but used the 200.00 down to pay for the other cue. as far you want to talk about me. that's fine nit, the last dealing I had with you done I did 70.00 worth of work for you sanding some oversized shaft down for over an hour and put on a kaumi black tip you said you would only pay 25.00 and than take over 6 months to pay for it NIT.

Another part of your story turns out to be fiction. Brad didn't get banned for saying another cue played better than an Olney. Olney banned him because he is bad action.

I reiterate, I don't know you but profane posts in conjunction with those of your buddies along with your story which has more holes in it than Swiss cheese tell me all I need to know. If you walk around with $1,000 dollars in your pocket it seems odd you didn't make a down payment so he would hold the cue.

There are a hundreds, probably thousands of Olney cues in circulation and the only guy I hear who had a problem is you. He had a history with you and your brother and based upon that history when you didn't show up he sold the cue, which you had zero money invested in, to someone who did have the cash.

If you were inclined to learn a lesson it would be the rest of the world isn't going to wait for you to get your act together. It's called taking responsibility for your own actions.

 

[Bishop]

Brad, your brother did have 200.00 at one time but used the 200.00 down to pay for the other cue. as far you want to talk about me. that's fine nit, the last dealing I had with you done I did 70.00 worth of work for you sanding some oversized shaft down for over an hour and put on a kaumi black tip you said you would only pay 25.00 and than take over 6 months to pay for it NIT.

Another part of your story turns out to be fiction. Brad didn't get banned for saying another cue played better than an Olney. Olney banned him because he is bad action.

I reiterate, I don't know you but profane posts in conjunction with those of your buddies along with your story which has more holes in it than Swiss cheese tell me all I need to know. If you walk around with $1,000 dollars in your pocket it seems odd you didn't make a down payment so he would hold the cue.

There are a hundreds, probably thousands of Olney cues in circulation and the only guy I hear who had a problem is you. He had a history with you and your brother and based upon that history when you didn't show up he sold the cue, which you had zero money invested in, to someone who did have the cash.

If you were inclined to learn a lesson it would be the rest of the world isn't going to wait for you to get your act together. It's called taking responsibility for your own actions.

But not a word from you about the lack of policies in place that would clearly outline time frame for delivery, final payment or course of action for late or non-payment.

Nothing in place that protects the buyer as well as the business.

Basically you're unwilling to hold this business responsible for anything let alone a complete lack of structure and clear way of doing business.

Congratulations on being part of the problem not the solution.

 

[poolhustler]

Brad, your brother did have 200.00 at one time but used the 200.00 down to pay for the other cue. as far you want to talk about me. that's fine nit, the last dealing I had with you done I did 70.00 worth of work for you sanding some oversized shaft down for over an hour and put on a kaumi black tip you said you would only pay 25.00 and than take over 6 months to pay for it NIT.

Another part of your story turns out to be fiction. Brad didn't get banned for saying another cue played better than an Olney. Olney banned him because he is bad action.

I reiterate, I don't know you but profane posts in conjunction with those of your buddies along with your story which has more holes in it than Swiss cheese tell me all I need to know. If you walk around with $1,000 dollars in your pocket it seems odd you didn't make a down payment so he would hold the cue.

There are a hundreds, probably thousands of Olney cues in circulation and the only guy I hear who had a problem is you. He had a history with you and your brother and based upon that history when you didn't show up he sold the cue, which you had zero money invested in, to someone who did have the cash.

If you were inclined to learn a lesson it would be the rest of the world isn't going to wait for you to get your act together. It's called taking responsibility for your own actions.

So you are telling the OP he should take responsibility of his actions, but Jeff can F**K over whoever he wants?? Makes perfect sense to me....

 

[Luck1st]

Brad, your brother did have 200.00 at one time but used the 200.00 down to pay for the other cue. as far you want to talk about me. that's fine nit, the last dealing I had with you done I did 70.00 worth of work for you sanding some oversized shaft down for over an hour and put on a kaumi black tip you said you would only pay 25.00 and than take over 6 months to pay for it NIT.

Another part of your story turns out to be fiction. Brad didn't get banned for saying another cue played better than an Olney. Olney banned him because he is bad action.

I reiterate, I don't know you but profane posts in conjunction with those of your buddies along with your story which has more holes in it than Swiss cheese tell me all I need to know. If you walk around with $1,000 dollars in your pocket it seems odd you didn't make a down payment so he would hold the cue.

There are a hundreds, probably thousands of Olney cues in circulation and the only guy I hear who had a problem is you. He had a history with you and your brother and based upon that history when you didn't show up he sold the cue, which you had zero money invested in, to someone who did have the cash.

If you were inclined to learn a lesson it would be the rest of the world isn't going to wait for you to get your act together. It's called taking responsibility for your own actions.

I don't walk around with $1000 in my pocket at all times, sometimes it's 2000 or $3000.
But on a serious note. Keep posting in this thread, your keeping it at the top of page #1.
Which is Bad for Jeff, not me.
What about me stating multiple times that don't you understand....... I offered Jeff money to work on the cue. He declined since the cue had been taking so long.

And if you would have read MY brothers side of it. Jeff offered to let Brad pay him the $25 the next time he would stop up. And Jeff knew that it could be Months before Brad came back.

 

[ykndoit]

Brad, your brother did have 200.00 at one time but used the 200.00 down to pay for the other cue. as far you want to talk about me. that's fine nit, the last dealing I had with you done I did 70.00 worth of work for you sanding some oversized shaft down for over an hour and put on a kaumi black tip you said you would only pay 25.00 and than take over 6 months to pay for it NIT.

Another part of your story turns out to be fiction. Brad didn't get banned for saying another cue played better than an Olney. Olney banned him because he is bad action.

I reiterate, I don't know you but profane posts in conjunction with those of your buddies along with your story which has more holes in it than Swiss cheese tell me all I need to know. If you walk around with $1,000 dollars in your pocket it seems odd you didn't make a down payment so he would hold the cue.

There are a hundreds, probably thousands of Olney cues in circulation and the only guy I hear who had a problem is you. He had a history with you and your brother and based upon that history when you didn't show up he sold the cue, which you had zero money invested in, to someone who did have the cash.

If you were inclined to learn a lesson it would be the rest of the world isn't going to wait for you to get your act together. It's called taking responsibility for your own actions.

Hey Buddy, how about you Pm me your phone number so we can chat. Maybe you can hear a lot better than you can read. Cuz your reading comprehension skills suck ass!!!!
There is help for you out there though.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Hey, I likes pictures. Altho, I usually purchase Play Boy for the editorials.

 

[Texdance]

To the guy who thinks people seldom walk around with a grand in cash, I say Jeez, get real, we could take a poll and half the guys on AZB would admit to carrying $500-$2000 as a matter of habit, or whenever expecting to gamble, or to buy a cue, or headed to a gun show or gun store.

This thread is fascinating, I have read every post. Those who reply fall into Types:

Type OP+ thinks the OP's OP tells the tale accurately, and has been wronged (which is hard to deny since JO himself has basically agreed with the OP and not tried to rebut his statements point by point.)

Type OP++ agrees with the OP in every particular and is outraged, outraged I say, boy! Oh my! How could a cue maker sell this guy's custom designed cue right out from under him late on a Sunday night, without warning the OP that he was in jeopardy of losing his creation. Badddddd Cue maker, baaddd badd bad bad!

Type C- wants to give JO some sort of benefit of doubt, but that doubt is pretty thin, since JO himself does not effectively deny the OP version of events;

Type D- thinks JO hung the moon, although they have never dealt with him. Basically they just like pretty pictures of cues, and what someone said about something, sometime, must be true or they would not have writ it.

Type FF has dealt with JO, or simply loves his cues, or pictures of his cues. Since these individuals have not been burned yet, it is therefore impossible that JO will ever do them wrong, in any way, ever, for the rest of time, Amen.

Type BBB thinks this is a pure business disservice to a customer, and offers clear business directions toward better cue maker and cue buyer relations, which would lead to more sales and higher profits for the cue builder, and more satisfied customers among the cue buying public. Several of the Type BBB posts are educational, not that any AZB readers think they need educating, since we know it all already.

Type ZZZ sez they, too, have had bad dealings with JO, but they don't get much notice, not the guy still waiting for his cue order after six years, nor the guy whose order sheet JO tossed in the trash can as that potential customer walked out the door, because JO made a snap judgment about the customers wealth, or lack of it. To his credit, JO never told that guy he trash canned his order, instead he politely keeps stringing him on every so often in order to make the buyer still think 'his' cue is 'in the queue' - it is a practical joke, get it, JO leads the customer to think his expensive cue is on order, and just for fun strings him along every few months for years, not letting on that JO trashed that order a long, long time ago. Funny, get it, right? No? You damn custom cue customers have no sense of humor at all.

Type StewPid: This type has never read anything with comprehension, 'comprehension' being a three syllable word he does not comprehend (nor does he comprehend any word with over three syllables, whatever syllables are). Type StewPid cherry picks a few words from several posts, puts them into his own flat earth worldview, then entertains and aggravates the forum with laughably ignorant replies.

I simply wonder why some Type StewPid poster would get on the OPs case, asserting the OP was too broke to buy the cue, when he had years advance notice, plenty of time to save up his allowance, sell his scooter, or dig for pennies in the sofa cracks. On the other hand, he does not fault JO for failing to have change for a hundred dollar bill on the day the bro tried to pay a $25 invoice with such a rare and large form of currency as a hunnerd.

And why don't people get it that the buyer *did* put down a deposit, which he never asked to be returned; the builder decided to switch the deposit toward the 'extra cues' while retaining his obligation to complete the order, all to alleviate his own guilt at being so slow in producing anything for the OP.

Does anyone give the OP credit for buying extra cues at JOs request? or for waiting
14 to 20 months for those cues which were supposed to be done in a month each?

One slight miss: OP says 3-4 years, while the timeline in the first post looks more like 24-34 months if I am reading it correctly.

Oddly, JO revived a year old thread in the Cue and Case gallery, showing photos of his cue work; some of those cues have features very similar to the one the OP ordered. See below:

Post #197, 10/19/2014
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=330310&page=5

Post #206, 10/22/2014
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=330310&page=6

Let's have a funeral for this thread. It has been informative and to me entertaining, but even Cats had to end its Broadway run eventually.

 

[jeff olney]

I don't walk around with $1000 in my pocket at all times, sometimes it's 2000 or $3000.
But on a serious note. Keep posting in this thread, your keeping it at the top of page #1.
Which is Bad for Jeff, not me.
What about me stating multiple times that don't you understand....... I offered Jeff money to work on the cue. He declined since the cue had been taking so long.

And if you would have read MY brothers side of it. Jeff offered to let Brad pay him the $25 the next time he would stop up. And Jeff knew that it could be Months before Brad came back.

All, I have ever done was given people good deals on cues, Brian you were great to deal with when making your cue, Matt and Brad were a big head ache. I didn't feel the need to tell you I had bills to pay because you were going to pick up the cue. You say you were excited about getting the cue but couldn't pick up the cue, you could have found a way or had somebody pick it up for you 123 hour went by I sold it I messed up by not waiting a little longer. as far as not having money down on the cue you used it for the other cue I said it would be ok, you wanted to buy you son a racing helmet I thought I was doing you a favor.The pau ferro sat in my shop 3 to 4 weeks waiting for you to pick it up 50.00 I did tell you I you if you didn't want the cue someone else would buy it. You guys got some great deals on cues I screwed up by not giving you more time, you got me down and just cant stop kicking. Sunday night at 8:19 you finally called I first thing out of your mouth you FORGOT I will save the voice mail for any one who wants to hear it. Want to kick me while I am down, I don't really have time to fight well I will make time. I will make a top ten list start my own thread what I have to put up. with, why I am always running behind. I am ready, Dale will be # 1 by a mile and you guys will find out what he is really all about.I dont need to lie, the truth will make your jaw hit the floor. last time I hurt his little feeling he whine and pouted for 3 years didn't see him post much. Ready Dale I sure am. Jeff

 

[buddha162]

All, I have ever done was given people good deals on cues, Brian you were great to deal with when making your cue, Matt and Brad were a big head ache. I didn't feel the need to tell you I had bills to pay because you were going to pick up the cue. You say you were excited about getting the cue but couldn't pick up the cue, you could have found a way or had somebody pick it up for you 123 hour went by I sold it I messed up by not waiting a little longer. as far as not having money down on the cue you used it for the other cue I said it would be ok, you wanted to buy you son a racing helmet I thought I was doing you a favor.The pau ferro sat in my shop 3 to 4 weeks waiting for you to pick it up 50.00 I did tell you I you if you didn't want the cue someone else would buy it. You guys got some great deals on cues I screwed up by not giving you more time, you got me down and just cant stop kicking. Sunday night at 8:19 you finally called I first thing out of your mouth you FORGOT I will save the voice mail for any one who wants to hear it. Want to kick me while I am down, I don't really have time to fight well I will make time. I will make a top ten list start my own thread what I have to put up. with, why I am always running behind. I am ready, Dale will be # 1 by a mile and you guys will find out what he is really all about.I dont need to lie, the truth will make your jaw hit the floor. last time I hurt his little feeling he whine and pouted for 3 years didn't see him post much. Ready Dale I sure am. Jeff

Jeff, my advice to you is to call Brian, make him another cue, and just STFU in this thread. Do not post a top ten list, do not post anymore to this thread, in fact don't even log into AZ to read this thread. Make things right with Brian and focus on making cues. Further engagement in this or any other thread where your cue deals went south will only hurt you.

If you follow these steps, you might salvage some of your lost reputation.

Sincerely (very, very sincerely),
-roger

 

[JC]

You're right there could be some dishonesty or incomplete story telling from either party but in the end no matter the particulars you don't move someone's order after a few days because "you need to get paid".

Deposit or no deposit. No other business operates this way. Don't accept orders if this is how you do business, its misleading and dishonest. Someone's poor financial state is not an excuse to move someone else's order.

All that was stated(without dispute) was that the cue maker made a series of calls inside of week...then sold off.

Who operates that way? Its seems pretty clear that since he had another buyer he wasn't going to give the OP any benefit of the doubt or make an real legitimate attempt to deliver the cue. He was looking for any excuse he could find to take the cash he needed right then and there. Sounds like a personal problem to me.

If this were a small claims court he would have had to make a concision effort to deliver and that usually consists of at least one round of certified mail and certainly not inside of a week.

If you are the person selling then you can all by yourself control the outcome of the transaction. This is why scores of good cue makers never seem to have problems. It's broadly known as "integrity".

JC

 

[mantis99]

All, I have ever done was given people good deals on cues, Brian you were great to deal with when making your cue, Matt and Brad were a big head ache. I didn't feel the need to tell you I had bills to pay because you were going to pick up the cue. You say you were excited about getting the cue but couldn't pick up the cue, you could have found a way or had somebody pick it up for you 123 hour went by I sold it I messed up by not waiting a little longer. as far as not having money down on the cue you used it for the other cue I said it would be ok, you wanted to buy you son a racing helmet I thought I was doing you a favor.The pau ferro sat in my shop 3 to 4 weeks waiting for you to pick it up 50.00 I did tell you I you if you didn't want the cue someone else would buy it. You guys got some great deals on cues I screwed up by not giving you more time, you got me down and just cant stop kicking. Sunday night at 8:19 you finally called I first thing out of your mouth you FORGOT I will save the voice mail for any one who wants to hear it. Want to kick me while I am down, I don't really have time to fight well I will make time. I will make a top ten list start my own thread what I have to put up. with, why I am always running behind. I am ready, Dale will be # 1 by a mile and you guys will find out what he is really all about.I dont need to lie, the truth will make your jaw hit the floor. last time I hurt his little feeling he whine and pouted for 3 years didn't see him post much. Ready Dale I sure am. Jeff

I am glad to hear Jeff is finally sailing he made a mistake here. I am sure this job comes with lots of headaches, and people understand that you can make a mistake. Just suck it up, publicly apologize to the guy instead of still trying to seat the blame on him, say you don't plan on making the mistake again, and get to making cues with people on here seeing you as a reasonable guy. If you just keep fighting in the thread and placing blame on other people for a mistake you made, it will only continue to look bad. Sure he should have made the pickup on Sunday, but you still shouldn't have sold the cue at that time. Also, you sold it before Sunday was even up. If you needs money that bad, you should have called him and let him know he cue had a short deadline instead of selling it. the tomato mistake in this scenario is yours. Just own it and move on.

 

[Jaden]

honestly at this point I don't think that's enough...

I am glad to hear Jeff is finally sailing he made a mistake here. I am sure this job comes with lots of headaches, and people understand that you can make a mistake. Just suck it up, publicly apologize to the guy instead of still trying to seat the blame on him, say you don't plan on making the mistake again, and get to making cues with people on here seeing you as a reasonable guy. If you just keep fighting in the thread and placing blame on other people for a mistake you made, it will only continue to look bad. Sure he should have made the pickup on Sunday, but you still shouldn't have sold the cue at that time. Also, you sold it before Sunday was even up. If you needs money that bad, you should have called him and let him know he cue had a short deadline instead of selling it. the tomato mistake in this scenario is yours. Just own it and move on.

HE should be agreeing to make the other guy that he sold the cue to another cue, do whatever he has to, including up to paying the $500 extra dollars the guy is asking for it and sell it to the rightful owner.

That's really the only move at this point in my eyes that can make up for the lapse in judgement that this is.

Jaden

 

[danieldakota53]

Cue making has turned into a public outcry. I have read many threads since joining this forum on this subject. It baffles me the way the majority of business is handled on and through this forum.

My opinion, times have changed considerably when doing business in this day and age. To buy any type of merchandise over the internet without a written contract or website to protect such purchase is not a very smart thing to do. Their are to many gray areas that can appear on either end with out such websites or written contracts in place.

The entire deal here is a result of this. Such person purchased said cue for X amount of dollars, said craftsman (cue maker) built custom cue to customers designs and upon completion, craftsman (cue maker) sold such cue due to countless opportunities from said buyer were passed upon and said cue was sold. Customer feels not enough time were given to obtain and pay for said custom cue, and starts a thread on open forum complaining of such.

I am rather sure I have the information correct.

Now here is my opinion based on my background and also many dealings in the cue industry. There are way to many people building cues as a business with no business licenses. Way to many people buying and selling cues with no licenses to be making profit on such sales. A cue maker can easily protect himself as can the buyers with a simple contract of the cue desired,details,dates of all transactions, and a completion date of said cue. It's that simple.

Neither party here has a right to complain as both were very unprotected in such terms. Who is more right than the other is just a matter of opinion that this thread will never solve. Cue maker has a right to do what ever he wants, morally speaking, with his merchandise as he is the soul owner , in most cases, of such goods. Only thing that changes that is a contract showing payment for such goods, details, ect. for the buyer to have to protect himself, lock in said pricing and details, and a down payment, which most all businesses do now a days for custom crafted goods.

I say if you buy off the internet or by an understanding(hand shake so to speak) these days with out such protections in place, you are allowing yourself to be at risk no matter what. So many cue makers live week by week for income, or at least month by month, they barely get by. Some cue makers are great businessmen and do just fine. Notice i said most live week to week or month by month.

I would say do yourself a favor, find a maker that you like, check his designs and products, check his credentials, not word of mouth, and buy from a respectable business owner, not an unlicensed craftsman. You both will benefit from this and threads like this will not be written,well for the most part I hope, on the open forums in such a terrible manner.

 

[Luck1st]

Cue making has turned into a public outcry. I have read many threads since joining this forum on this subject. It baffles me the way the majority of business is handled on and through this forum.

My opinion, times have changed considerably when doing business in this day and age. To buy any type of merchandise over the internet without a written contract or website to protect such purchase is not a very smart thing to do. Their are to many gray areas that can appear on either end with out such websites or written contracts in place.

The entire deal here is a result of this. Such person purchased said cue for X amount of dollars, said craftsman (cue maker) built custom cue to customers designs and upon completion, craftsman (cue maker) sold such cue due to countless opportunities from said buyer were passed upon and said cue was sold. Customer feels not enough time were given to obtain and pay for said custom cue, and starts a thread on open forum complaining of such.

I am rather sure I have the information correct.

Now here is my opinion based on my background and also many dealings in the cue industry. There are way to many people building cues as a business with no business licenses. Way to many people buying and selling cues with no licenses to be making profit on such sales. A cue maker can easily protect himself as can the buyers with a simple contract of the cue desired,details,dates of all transactions, and a completion date of said cue. It's that simple.


Neither party here has a right to complain as both were very unprotected in such terms. Who is more right than the other is just a matter of opinion that this thread will never solve. Cue maker has a right to do what ever he wants, morally speaking, with his merchandise as he is the soul owner , in most cases, of such goods. Only thing that changes that is a contract showing payment for such goods, details, ect. for the buyer to have to protect himself, lock in said pricing and details, and a down payment, which most all businesses do now a days for custom crafted goods.

I say if you buy off the internet or by an understanding(hand shake so to speak) these days with out such protections in place, you are allowing yourself to be at risk no matter what. So many cue makers live week by week for income, or at least month by month, they barely get by. Some cue makers are great businessmen and do just fine. Notice i said most live week to week or month by month.

I would say do yourself a favor, find a maker that you like, check his designs and products, check his credentials, not word of mouth, and buy from a respectable business owner, not an unlicensed craftsman. You both will benefit from this and threads like this will not be written,well for the most part I hope, on the open forums in such a terrible manner.

So,,, the fact that Jeff wrote my design down on one of his order forms and took my initial down payment of $200 and wrote that down on the form was not any sort of binding contract?????????

All me, Matt,and my brother ever wanted was..... Our high end cues that we ordered.
Never hounded Jeff about the time it was taking. Never complained. Just delt with it. We knew that Jeff would come through. Since we had been long time costomers.

We understood that he had taken on to much work. 6-7 years to get a custom cue was his new lead time. We just wanted our Olney cues from the custom cue maker form our HOME state. We liked the fact we could say that.

I

 

[danieldakota53]

So,,, the fact that Jeff wrote my design down on one of his order forms and took my initial down payment of $200 and wrote that down on the form was not any sort of binding contract?????????

All me, Matt,and my brother ever wanted was..... Our high end cues that we ordered.
Never hounded Jeff about the time it was taking. Never complained. Just delt with it. We knew that Jeff would come through. Since we had been long time costomers.

We understood that he had taken on to much work. 6-7 years to get a custom cue was his new lead time. We just wanted our Olney cues from the custom cue maker form our HOME state. We liked the fact we could say that.

I

No sir, it's not.

 

[danieldakota53]

Things like a written receipt on his company letter head, copies of such orders, detailed times of work being done and delivery dates. Both were at fault is what I am saying. I understand you made a down payment from your earlier post, I also seen where such deposit was refunded to use to fund other things. I am in no way saying this is solely your fault. I commented both were at fault due to checks and balances most businesses do use to protect themselves.

The thing I am troubled with is why you keep posting about it when it is very cut and dry. On your part, do not deal with said cue maker in the future if you feel you were wronged in any way. As to pursue this tells me you are either looking for a discounted item,free item, or something of the sort in the future.

And for the maker, do not deal with any customer in the future you do not feel comfortable with making goods for. You both go on your separate ways and never cross paths again.

Is there something I am missing to the point of your post I have not covered?

 

[ykndoit]

Things like a written receipt on his company letter head, copies of such orders, detailed times of work being done and delivery dates. Both were at fault is what I am saying. I understand you made a down payment from your earlier post, I also seen where such deposit was refunded to use to fund other things. I am in no way saying this is solely your fault. I commented both were at fault due to checks and balances most businesses do use to protect themselves.

The thing I am troubled with is why you keep posting about it when it is very cut and dry. On your part, do not deal with said cue maker in the future if you feel you were wronged in any way. As to pursue this tells me you are either looking for a discounted item,free item, or something of the sort in the future.

And for the maker, do not deal with any customer in the future you do not feel comfortable with making goods for. You both go on your separate ways and never cross paths again.

Is there something I am missing to the point of your post I have not covered?

Several things.....

For starters, we NEVER wanted ANYTHING for free or discounted. We wanted a quality cue that "we helped design" from a local cue maker. You know, a "custom cue".

"Countless opportunities? This wasn't weeks or months that went by. 4 days, 4 days

Deposit wasn't refunded, it was used on a different cue suggested by the cue maker.

Built cue wasn't built to customers design, close, but not exact. But both parties agreed, so non issue really.

Lastly, this wasn't an "internet purchase". This was done 'in person' at 'his business'. The order was written down, with amount to be owed, and a down payment made.

What you are really missing is the lack of morals, integrity, and communication by the cue maker.

All I can say to you sir is, have this happen to you and see how you feel.
Order a custom cue and have a few years go by and you get a phone call saying your cue is getting close, what type of ferrule do you want, what color wrap? What tip do you want? You start to get that giddy feeling like you just kissed a girl for the first time. It's so close! Then, she tells you she wants to be your girlfriend, you say YES! You go see her only to have her kick you in the balls.......

 

[mantis99]

Cue making has turned into a public outcry. I have read many threads since joining this forum on this subject. It baffles me the way the majority of business is handled on and through this forum.

My opinion, times have changed considerably when doing business in this day and age. To buy any type of merchandise over the internet without a written contract or website to protect such purchase is not a very smart thing to do. Their are to many gray areas that can appear on either end with out such websites or written contracts in place.

The entire deal here is a result of this. Such person purchased said cue for X amount of dollars, said craftsman (cue maker) built custom cue to customers designs and upon completion, craftsman (cue maker) sold such cue due to countless opportunities from said buyer were passed upon and said cue was sold. Customer feels not enough time were given to obtain and pay for said custom cue, and starts a thread on open forum complaining of such.

I am rather sure I have the information correct.

Now here is my opinion based on my background and also many dealings in the cue industry. There are way to many people building cues as a business with no business licenses. Way to many people buying and selling cues with no licenses to be making profit on such sales. A cue maker can easily protect himself as can the buyers with a simple contract of the cue desired,details,dates of all transactions, and a completion date of said cue. It's that simple.

Neither party here has a right to complain as both were very unprotected in such terms. Who is more right than the other is just a matter of opinion that this thread will never solve. Cue maker has a right to do what ever he wants, morally speaking, with his merchandise as he is the soul owner , in most cases, of such goods. Only thing that changes that is a contract showing payment for such goods, details, ect. for the buyer to have to protect himself, lock in said pricing and details, and a down payment, which most all businesses do now a days for custom crafted goods.

I say if you buy off the internet or by an understanding(hand shake so to speak) these days with out such protections in place, you are allowing yourself to be at risk no matter what. So many cue makers live week by week for income, or at least month by month, they barely get by. Some cue makers are great businessmen and do just fine. Notice i said most live week to week or month by month.

I would say do yourself a favor, find a maker that you like, check his designs and products, check his credentials, not word of mouth, and buy from a respectable business owner, not an unlicensed craftsman. You both will benefit from this and threads like this will not be written,well for the most part I hope, on the open forums in such a terrible manner.

The point of this thread though is to create a buyer beware situation. What you propose with licenses and such will not happen, yet people will still but cues. At least people have a little better idea of how to protect themselves and who from. In my opinion, there have been so many of these threads, and usually from cue makers that previously had very good reputations, but fell on hard times, that I would not risk a significant investment at this time.

 

[JC]

Cue making has turned into a public outcry. I have read many threads since joining this forum on this subject. It baffles me the way the majority of business is handled on and through this forum.

My opinion, times have changed considerably when doing business in this day and age. To buy any type of merchandise over the internet without a written contract or website to protect such purchase is not a very smart thing to do. Their are to many gray areas that can appear on either end with out such websites or written contracts in place.

The entire deal here is a result of this. Such person purchased said cue for X amount of dollars, said craftsman (cue maker) built custom cue to customers designs and upon completion, craftsman (cue maker) sold such cue due to countless opportunities from said buyer were passed upon and said cue was sold. Customer feels not enough time were given to obtain and pay for said custom cue, and starts a thread on open forum complaining of such.

I am rather sure I have the information correct.

Now here is my opinion based on my background and also many dealings in the cue industry. There are way to many people building cues as a business with no business licenses. Way to many people buying and selling cues with no licenses to be making profit on such sales. A cue maker can easily protect himself as can the buyers with a simple contract of the cue desired,details,dates of all transactions, and a completion date of said cue. It's that simple.

Neither party here has a right to complain as both were very unprotected in such terms. Who is more right than the other is just a matter of opinion that this thread will never solve. Cue maker has a right to do what ever he wants, morally speaking, with his merchandise as he is the soul owner , in most cases, of such goods. Only thing that changes that is a contract showing payment for such goods, details, ect. for the buyer to have to protect himself, lock in said pricing and details, and a down payment, which most all businesses do now a days for custom crafted goods.

I say if you buy off the internet or by an understanding(hand shake so to speak) these days with out such protections in place, you are allowing yourself to be at risk no matter what. So many cue makers live week by week for income, or at least month by month, they barely get by. Some cue makers are great businessmen and do just fine. Notice i said most live week to week or month by month.

I would say do yourself a favor, find a maker that you like, check his designs and products, check his credentials, not word of mouth, and buy from a respectable business owner, not an unlicensed craftsman. You both will benefit from this and threads like this will not be written,well for the most part I hope, on the open forums in such a terrible manner.

You talk about "business license" like it's a federal program. Business license's mean squat. They are just a means for local governments to collect fees for their coffers and have little correlation to anything else. They are not a universal requirement to do business and vary greatly by locality. There is no relationship between a business license and a written contract.

Even though you say you are "rather sure" you got the facts straight you did not. You say the buyer was given "countless" opportunities to pick up the cue but in fact he was given Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I do not have a problem counting those. It's 4. And it's way too few for any item which took several years to prepare.

You say neither party has a right to complain? Just because you choose to do business on a handshake doesn't make screwing you ok and it doesn't necessarily make you a fool. I have transacted much larger things than this cue on a handshake before. People living hand to mouth are in every industry. And they will often be quick to pull shit like this and then try to justify it. I'm sure the OP of this thread will get over this soon enough but he is doing a service to the pool playing/cue buying public by relating what happened. If a man's handshake is no good the world has a right to know it.

Lastly, Olney's rambling gibberish "top ten" thread is a pretty good indicator of who's likely the party here relaying accurately what went down. My money's on the OP.

JC

 

[Luck1st]

Things like a written receipt on his company letter head, copies of such orders, detailed times of work being done and delivery dates. Both were at fault is what I am saying. I understand you made a down payment from your earlier post, I also seen where such deposit was refunded to use to fund other things. I am in no way saying this is solely your fault. I commented both were at fault due to checks and balances most businesses do use to protect themselves.

The thing I am troubled with is why you keep posting about it when it is very cut and dry. On your part, do not deal with said cue maker in the future if you feel you were wronged in any way. As to pursue this tells me you are either looking for a discounted item,free item, or something of the sort in the future.

And for the maker, do not deal with any customer in the future you do not feel comfortable with making goods for. You both go on your separate ways and never cross paths again.

Is there something I am missing to the point of your post I have not covered?

Not looking for any discounts or freebies.
Never the intention of my post.
Just serving as a public service to the Pool community of AZ Billiards.