Of course your initial post was self serving, and so is your second post. Trying to make cues that won't warp isn't something that you alone do.
Let's Talk About the "Southwest" Roll
- Thread starter HereWeGo
- Start date
Of course your initial post was self serving, and so is your second post. Trying to make cues that won't warp isn't something that you alone do.
Try to twist it all you want it is not what I said........ you are only parroting what TW erroneously assumed from my post.........
Kim
Thats why I said if its spinning true on both ends.
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I don't understand KJ's statement "If the pin is off at any point along it's 1-3/8" length to true center of the cue". Is he talking about a bent pin, a pin that was inserted at an angle to the centerline, or something else?
This is getting old and some just don't get it .
And probably will never get it.
Here's a SW spec .
.835" joint diam.
1.060" A-joint diam. ( bottom of the forearm ).
1.248" Bottom of the cue .
Use your brain and kinda figure out what's strange about it.
And probably will never get it.
Here's a SW spec .
.835" joint diam.
1.060" A-joint diam. ( bottom of the forearm ).
1.248" Bottom of the cue .
Use your brain and kinda figure out what's strange about it.
Yes, or if the center hole of that pin has been mangled .
Thanks, Joey! When that cue was new, and was spun between centers, would the A-joint still have wobbled?
No.
Between centers is not like rolling on the table .
SW does not send out cues that don't spin right on their lathes.
When you buy your dog at a puppy farm it is easy to get a dog with bad hips!
When you go to an AKA certified breeder the incidence of getting a bad hipped dog is very very low.
The devil alway lies in the detail.
When you go to an AKA certified breeder the incidence of getting a bad hipped dog is very very low.
The devil alway lies in the detail.
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Maybe this will help you grasp the concept.
This speaks along the same line that suggests that most CMs don't install the pin until the cue is turned to final dia.
During the turning/tapering sessions, the cue is centered on the front-end by the chamfered hole where the pin will
eventually be installed. The cue has a center-line and spins true. At this point, all is right with the world.
It's during the pin install process that the center-line COULD become compromised. It's not common but does happen.
No, the pin is not bent and could look perfectly true. Proofing that with a dial indicator will tell.
Drew-DD Custom Cues, alluded to this point. I'd like to expand upon that a bit.
We've only talked about the jnt. end of the cue regarding spinning btwn centers. The butt end is equally important.
Is the surface/ledge/chamfer that the tail-stock live center will ride on, PERFECTLY concentic to the body of the cue?
Any deviation at that end will cause the cue to oscillate as it's being spun. Make sure you start with a true center.
Using the center-hole in the wght.blt can give you a false reading also. Wght.blts get changed. Proof that center also.
What I'm suggesting is that there should be some confirmations made prior to spinning on centers
to insure that the resulting readings will be based on the cue spinning on TRUE centers.
Proof your setup, proof your centers and your results will be more accurate.
HTHs, KJ
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I agree. No matter how many different tapers on a butt and no matter if they are linear or parabolic, if they are all concentric............ the butt will roll true.......... if it wobbles when you roll it.......... it's warped...........
Kim
If you chucked the forearm of this cue, a few inches back from the pin, indexed that length of forearm (zero'd the runout), you could then index the pin to determine its concentricity to that length of forearm. If the pin is concentric and straight, yet the A-joint wobbles, wouldn't that conclusively determine the cue is warped?
This is something I dont see being brought up. After the cue is completed and the pin is installed, everything still runs true, bravo cue is concentric, along with the pin.
Now, after the butt end of the cue is bored out to accept the bumper I think most cm's would agree that the turning center that was there originally is now gone. So when a cue is put between centers after the fact, getting it centered once again is not as easy.
Even a couple thousandth's run out can cause a cue to wobble between centers.
Now, after the butt end of the cue is bored out to accept the bumper I think most cm's would agree that the turning center that was there originally is now gone. So when a cue is put between centers after the fact, getting it centered once again is not as easy.
Even a couple thousandth's run out can cause a cue to wobble between centers.
Just roll it on top of a pool able's rail.
Chucking demands an accurate collet too.
Where are you going to get a collet that matches SW's taper?
PS.
Between centers is not rolling. It's spinning .
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Do they core every one of there forearms and/or handles before doing the A-Joint?
Hmm. I guess you want a fight. No problem.
Overlooking your cheap shots for the moment, I'll repeat my earlier question so we can watch you duck it again. First, this is EXACTLY what you wrote:
So I ask again, how is your statement NOT 100% self-serving? You call my question an "erroneous assumption" - but glaringly fail to answer it.
TW
(PS: When someone else repeats that same very reasonable question they probably also are also trying to understand your twisted logic. Calling that "parroting" is simply a weak attempt to deflect the real point - a challenge to your claim of being a better (and cheaper) cuemaker than Southwest.)
And that's all well and good - except those conditions were NOT detailed in the original post, nor were they proposed before you stated absolutely that the cue was warped.
Under the conditions the original poster posed there are other, possibly more likely causes for the results he's witnessed.
TW
They don't . Niether did DPK . Did Schuler core his cues ?
They don't fill the bottom of the points' cavities with epoxy or bondo either .
When you get a Pau Ferro SW, you're getting a pau ferro hit .
When you get an ebony or purpleheart SW, you get ebony and ppleheart hit .
They don't run a puppy mill . They have one master machinist working for them. Nobody not qualified does any assembly.
Don't look for them to switch to one-piece core with epoxy filler and skinny forearms anytime soon. You might die waiting .
You'd probably die waiting for a linear tapered SW too.
Don't convince them to move near Gina or Tad's shops too where the weather/climate is just about as good as it gets for cue makers .
SW is world famous for their hit . Laurie isn't going to change that hit .
Tournament champions use SW . A few Taiwan greats use SW .
Every time I see this touted as the ultimate test of straightness it makes me cringe. I guess now is as good a time as any to debunk this pervasive myth.
Checking the straightness of a cue by rolling it with the butt end on a pool table's surface and joint running along the rail is NOT an accurate method - not even close. It relies on the following highly unlikely assumptions:
1) the table bed and the top of the rubber cushion are perfectly parallel to to each [in the horizontal plane] to a few thousandths tolerance; and
2) the fabric pulled tightly against the rubber cushion has perfectly equal tension along its length so it is not causing the rubber to bulge upward (or pucker downward) at any point; and
3) the cue is rolled perfectly perpendicular to the rail along the rail and that roll must be perfectly linear, even though the differential diameters of the butt and joint (and physics) dictate that it must actually travel in an arc.
I have seen hundreds (thousands?) of pool tables, and observed dozens being leveled and assembled. The tolerances for that work typically rely on a visual inspection of a bubble level and shimming rails with wooden wedges and old playing cards. The rubber cushions are bonded to the table rails with contact cement while the top edges are aligned horizontally by feel and by eye. The tension on the rail cloth is determined by feel while it is pulled tight and stapled in place.
In short, the tolerances of the table are nowhere near precise, and the handling of the cue during its rolling is even less so. I have never seen anyone roll a cue on the rail in any path that wasn't an arc. When the cue DOES roll in an arcing path the distance between the joint and buttcap contact points changes, simultaneously changing the angle of the cue and therefore the height of the tip - resulting in a tip that bobs up and down during the rolling process.
In fact, to roll it along a straight path would require either simultaneously sliding the joint sideways while also rolling it, OR letting the buttcap slip on the able surface during the process.
I have no idea how a person doing the rolling would accomplish either of those "cheats" while retaining any sort of precision, and anything other than perfect table conditions and perfect manipulation of the cue can cause a straight cue to look warped OR a warped cue to look straight.
TW