Mosconin stance

CJ Wiley said:
Willie made an appearance at the pool room I was co-owner in called Champs in Dallas. He was losing his mental falcuties at the time so I tried not to notice his "grumpiness"......after all, pool is enough to drive anyone insane. ;)

So, GoldenFlash, if you {only} had a choice between being friends and rooming with a player for ONE tournament would you pick Mosconi or Strickland?
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That's a tough one, at least I don't think Willie would try to bring a group of stray cats into the room to feed them. (ref. from thread by bflad)
 
I don't think Willie would try to bring a group of stray cats into the room

punter said:
That's a tough one, at least I don't think Willie would try to bring a group of stray cats into the room to feed them. (ref. from thread by bflad)
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Maybe if the cats had long tails, and the room was full of rocking chairs. ;)
 
alstl said:
https://vimeo.com/4957545

One of the better videos featuring Mosconi. He did use a slip stroke on some shots. As for his stance, see for yourself. It appears he didn't bend his knees much which probably works better for a man of his short stature.
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Folks:

Just FYI, the above video is NOT a continuous video. It's been edited.

Here's proof:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qRKw56oAA-E#t=1m

Watch carefully when Willie executes the breakshot, and the travel of balls *in the foot-end camera view, before the camera view switches to the overhead camera*. Pay particular attention to the foot-end lower-left (as you view it) pocket. You'll notice that just before the camera view switches from the foot-end of the table to an overhead view (about 1:07 on the timeline), that there are no balls anywhere near that foot-end lower-left pocket, nor are there any balls even remotely threatening that lower-left corner pocket. (Again, "lower-left" as you view the video; it's the right-side corner pocket as Willie views it.)

Yet, when the camera view switches to an overhead view (from 1:07 to 1:08), we see a ball racing towards that corner pocket, and rattles in it, setting up the opening combination shot that you see Willie take to begin his run.

And, you'll hear Willie say, "Now that's better!" I'd always wondered why Willie said that, and thanks to Dan White pointing out this camera-switch / ball-placement discrepancy, we can see that the video has been edited.

Just wanted to point that out. As for the slip-stroke thing, Iwontsayagoddamnedthing. I'll just let the viewers watch the video (pay attention to his grip hand when it's in camera view for the stroke), and make up their own minds. ;)

-Sean
 
GoldenFlash said:
He was surly, grouchy, whining constantly about everything in sight, talking constantly on my few little shots (he went into orbit when I gave it back to him on a shot and said....."don't dog it, you're the big wheel")
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I don't understand this. What do you mean by "talking constantly on my few little shots..."?
 
dropping the left hand

I've noticed that many of these really old guys (Irving Crane, Ray Martin, (even Jackie Gleason) in the movie would drop their left hand off the table and let it flop down to hang by their side after they pull the trigger on "stuck on the rail" shots.
Although the cue will still be in position on the table while the balls roll.
Wonder if that gives any kind of 'edge' on a rail shot?
Watch Mosconi do it when he's shooting with the cue ball on the rail.
Comments?
 
"Always bet on the guy with the out of state tag on his car"

CJ Wiley said:
Willie made an appearance at the pool room I was co-owner in called Champs in Dallas. He was losing his mental falcuties at the time so I tried not to notice his "grumpiness"......after all, pool is enough to drive anyone insane. ;)
So, GoldenFlash, if you {only} had a choice between being friends and rooming with a player for ONE tournament would you pick Mosconi or Strickland?
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I'd take Strickland. I don't think Earl would babble all night about "when he robbed Razor Totin' Jim out of a zillion way back when" etc. etc. etc.
For another thing Strickland is younger and would probably have a girl with him and she'd have a girlfriend who'd be desperate enough and eager enough to defile herself to the limit by taking up with me. :wink:
(I'm not too proud to take leftovers and discards...at my age it don't bother me at all) :)
Regards,
Flash.
 
Dan White said:
I don't understand this. What do you mean by "talking constantly on my few little shots..."?
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He was saying things like...."you'll never make that ball"....."you southern guys are such suckers"......"who told you that you could get on a table with me".
Stuff like that, just being a smart aleck.
He didn't like it so well when I gave him back a dose of his own medicine.
Old poolroom adage (from my hero Danny Jones)===> "Just remember, if the opponent is a talker....he's probably also a listener"
:cool:
 
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Met both Earl and Mosconi twice. I could listen to Earl for hours. Mosconi was an ass and a snob. Johnnyt
 
alstl said:
https://vimeo.com/4957545

One of the better videos featuring Mosconi. He did use a slip stroke on some shots. As for his stance, see for yourself. It appears he didn't bend his knees much which probably works better for a man of his short stature.
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Definitely see him using a short slip-stroke on some shots here.

I played Willie at the Billiard Den in Hollywood in 1968. It was 150 point and he ran 131 and out on me. The place was packed and he b1tched about everything and gave little credit to anyone. If someone moved while he was shooting or lit a match fifty feet from the table, Willie would stare at them with contempt in his eyes. Some good players were there that night (Pancho, Marvin and a couple of others) and they had little respect for the great Mosconi. They knew him from way back and didn't much care for him. Willie spoke down about any pool "hustler" like Fats or anyone else, and gave little credit to his opponents, other than Caras and Crane.

He liked me because I was no match for him and obviously very nervous. He didn't need to shark me, I was sharked the moment I set foot in that room and saw him practicing. Practicing for what I thought, to demolish me! He smirked at my ineptness at 14.1 and told me I better practice a little more next time. I was too much in awe to say anything back to him. Of course next time never came.
 
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just watched an old Youtube vid of Mosconi playing Jimmy Caras straight pool. Mosconi was probably way past his best and couldnt keep still on the shot, whereas Caras looked a much better player , with a very straight cue, and better mechanics. Caras won.
 
jay helfert said:
Definitely see him using a short slip-stroke on some shots here.

I played Willie at the Billiard Den in Hollywood in 1968. It was 150 point and he ran 131 and out on me. The place was packed and he b1tched about everything and gave little credit to anyone. If someone moved while he was shooting or lit a match fifty feet from the table, Willie would stare at them with contempt in his eyes. Some good players were there that night (Pancho, Marvin and a couple of others) and they had little respect for the great Mosconi. They knew him from way back and didn't much care for him. Willie spoke down about any pool "hustler" like Fats or anyone else, and gave little credit to his opponents, other than Caras and Crane.

He liked me because I was no match for him and obviously very nervous. He didn't need to shark me, I was sharked the moment I set foot in that room and saw him practicing. Practicing for what I thought, to demolish me! He smirked at my ineptness at 14.1 and told me I better practice a little more next time. I was too much in awe to say anything back to him. Of course next time never came.
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Ya know, the sports world is filled with grumpy folks. But, ya know, it diminishes him none in my eyes. Just like Early, he was probably all bark and no bite. It's a lot better then the cheaters, liars, rapists, thugs and drug dealers that the NFL deals with every day. Plus, Willie and Earl never played with Magic Chalk, I'd be grumpy as hell too ;)

Heck, I play in leagues with lots of grumpy folks... whatever, don't bother me cause I know how they are, just their personality or sometimes lack of personality ;)
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Ya know, the sports world is filled with grumpy folks. But, ya know, it diminishes him none in my eyes. Just like Early, he was probably all bark and no bite. It's a lot better then the cheaters, liars, rapists, thugs and drug dealers that the NFL deals with every day. Plus, Willie and Earl never played with Magic Chalk, I'd be grumpy as hell too ;)
Heck, I play in leagues with lots of grumpy folks... whatever, don't bother me cause I know how they are, just their personality or sometimes lack of personality ;)
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I never got to play football with anybody in the NFL.
What's it like?
 
CJ Wiley said:
Mosconi's technical attribute was how he positions his hand forward towards the balance point of his cue. Understanding how to utilize the cue's balance point is critical to playing at the upper levels of competition.

The cue is designed perfectly to transfer energy from the hand to the tip, which, in turn, allows the player to move the cue-ball effortlessly.....if the body's working synergistically with the cue, this is "the difference that makes the difference".

Fine tuning the stroking mechanics has advantages as far as the Kinesiology of his stroke.....which translates to accuracy and precision in his position play and shot-making ability.

Many players can improve 10-20% just by improving what they're doing in their stroke, stance and wrist motion. These things are not natural to the human body and must be learned, practiced and utilized on a consistent basis to master.
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I think that post blew a brain fuse in all the AZ Mythbusters.
 
317429_2194111735860_407883766_n.jpg not upright way back then
 
PoolBoy1 said:
His stance though hard to tell looks more perpendicular to cue and shooting arm not in preferred 90 degree angle of today. Any thoughts? Did he use a slip stroke? Most pros today are clones except for some head placement differences.
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I saw Mosconi play several times back in the 60's.

His grip was not perpendicular to the floor, but rather a bit forward. Short grip, short bridge. However, in his instruction books he did advocate a perpendicular position for the forearm. Do as I say, not as I do.

As to the slip stroke, I don't recall seeing him use one. I believe many people who say he did forget that because his grip was so short, on some shots when he had to stretch a bit, he had to adjust his grip back and that slight adjustment was mistaken as a slip stroke.

During a prior discussion on this topic I did a quick-pass, shot-by-shot analysis of many of the available videos of Mosconi and to the best of my recollection there was no slip stroke. However that doesn't stop some folks from finding one shot, somewhere on a video, that they claim is a slip stroke.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
I saw Mosconi play several times back in the 60's.

His grip was not perpendicular to the floor, but rather a bit forward. Short grip, short bridge. However, in his instruction books he did advocate a perpendicular position for the forearm. Do as I say, not as I do.

As to the slip stroke, I don't recall seeing him use one. I believe many people who say he did forget that because his grip was so short, on some shots when he had to stretch a bit, he had to adjust his grip back and that slight adjustment was mistaken as a slip stroke.

During a prior discussion on this topic I did a quick-pass, shot-by-shot analysis of many of the available videos of Mosconi and to the best of my recollection there was no slip stroke. However that doesn't stop some folks from finding one shot, somewhere on a video, that they claim is a slip stroke.

Lou Figueroa
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He looked fairly short and if he started at 11 he likely carried on his mechanics through his lifetime.
 
lfigueroa said:
I saw Mosconi play several times back in the 60's.

His grip was not perpendicular to the floor, but rather a bit forward. Short grip, short bridge. However, in his instruction books he did advocate a perpendicular position for the forearm. Do as I say, not as I do.

As to the slip stroke, I don't recall seeing him use one. I believe many people who say he did forget that because his grip was so short, on some shots when he had to stretch a bit, he had to adjust his grip back and that slight adjustment was mistaken as a slip stroke.

During a prior discussion on this topic I did a quick-pass, shot-by-shot analysis of many of the available videos of Mosconi and to the best of my recollection there was no slip stroke. However that doesn't stop some folks from finding one shot, somewhere on a video, that they claim is a slip stroke.

Lou Figueroa
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I have always doubted that Mosconi had anything to do with his , "book" ,other than sell them out of the trunk of his car.
 
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