The slip stroke; not its definition, but its purpose

[BillPorter]

In another thread, there was a long debate over whether Mosconi, on occasion, used a slip stroke. Without going into the somewhat tedious hair-splitting about the definition of a slip stroke, for me, it entails sliding your hand toward the butt of the cue during the final backstroke. When I tried it 50 years ago, I did it to put more juice or spin on the cue ball. My slip stroke involved sliding my grip hand 2, 3, or, at most, 4 inches back toward the butt of the cue. For me, it seemed to increase the amount of spin on the cue ball at the expense of accuracy.

Just wondered if any of you old slip strokers, or young ones for that matter, agree or disagree with the purpose of the stroke.

 

[JoeyInCali]

First, let's end the debate where WM had it or not.
He had it. Told to me by his ex-sparring partner Wayne Norcross.
Wayne is from PA and he copied his idol's stroke .
The purpose is obvious to me . Have a better practice stroke ( longer ) and by slipping , you're making the forearm perpendicular before tip hits the cue ball.

 

[lfigueroa]

In another thread, there was a long debate over whether Mosconi, on occasion, used a slip stroke. Without going into the somewhat tedious hair-splitting about the definition of a slip stroke, for me, it entails sliding your hand toward the butt of the cue during the final backstroke. When I tried it 50 years ago, I did it to put more juice or spin on the cue ball. My slip stroke involved sliding my grip hand 2, 3, or, at most, 4 inches back toward the butt of the cue. For me, it seemed to increase the amount of spin on the cue ball at the expense of accuracy.

Just wondered if any of you old slip strokers, or young ones for that matter, agree or disagree with the purpose of the stroke.

I always thought the purpose of the slip stroke was to eliminate inaccuracy caused by the back swing.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

First, let's end the debate where WM had it or not.
He had it. Told to me by his ex-sparring partner Wayne Norcross.
Wayne is from PA and he copied his idol's stroke .
The purpose is obvious to me . Have a better practice stroke ( longer ) and by slipping , you're making the forearm perpendicular before tip hits the cue ball.

So sorry but eye witness reports, including my own, and the video evidence, show otherwise.

Lou Figueroa

 

[xianmacx]

a little bit unrelated to the question, but at the derby I watched Josh Roberts play. He is a young player and although its subtle, he has a slip stoke. His is so smooth and effective. Great player.

 

[Jaden]

nope not the purpose...

First, let's end the debate where WM had it or not.
He had it. Told to me by his ex-sparring partner Wayne Norcross.
Wayne is from PA and he copied his idol's stroke .
The purpose is obvious to me . Have a better practice stroke ( longer ) and by slipping , you're making the forearm perpendicular before tip hits the cue ball.

The purpose of the slip stroke is to allow the unencumbered weight of the cue to do the work.

All kinds of bad stroke things happen when you force the cue through the ball, the slip stroke helps to ensure that the weight of the cue does the work and you don't force the cue through the ball.

Jaden

 

[oldroller]

That

The purpose of the slip stroke is to allow the unencumbered weight of the cue to do the work.

All kinds of bad stroke things happen when you force the cue through the ball, the slip stroke helps to ensure that the weight of the cue does the work and you don't force the cue through the ball.

Jaden

sounds right to me

 

[cuesblues]

The purpose of the slip stroke is to allow the unencumbered weight of the cue to do the work.

All kinds of bad stroke things happen when you force the cue through the ball, the slip stroke helps to ensure that the weight of the cue does the work and you don't force the cue through the ball.

Jaden

That is my opinion as well.
I think Efren is the best example of a player using a slip stroke to allow the weight of the cue to do all the work.
It's also another reason to buy a real good pool cue>>:smile:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The purpose of the slip stroke is to allow the unencumbered weight of the cue to do the work.

All kinds of bad stroke things happen when you force the cue through the ball, the slip stroke helps to ensure that the weight of the cue does the work and you don't force the cue through the ball.

Jaden

You don't buy into the "accelerate through the ball" principle?

pj
chgo

 

[cueball1950]

slip stroke

I have been playing pool for over 50 years, so i would consider myself an old timer... i am a south paw (lefty) and i have used the slip stroke thousands of times....most times not even realizing it.... i used it mainly for more control of the cue ball. Especially when playing 14.1 and on the break shot.....it can also put a little more force on the cue ball when needed, ie: follow through, drawing the cue ball....i feel that my slip stroke made my game some what better. some times i also used it playing 3 cushion billiards.. i had a friend who noticed my slip stroke and wanted me to teach it to him... i do not believe it is something that can be taught....mine just came naturally to me. and my slip was maybe 3 to 4 inches at most and also made the cue more level i believe.....thats my story and i am sticking to it...........mike

 

[Moet.1977]

Slip stroke

Busty has the best slip stroke out their and the most noticeable one.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

I always thought the purpose of the slip stroke was to eliminate inaccuracy caused by the back swing.

Lou Figueroa

When I was noodling around with it that was one of the biggest potential benefits I saw. When you let go of the cue for that instant, you are able to draw your hand back straight along the shot line. The way I stroke, I visualize the hand is doing the stroking and try not to think about the CB, stick, or even the tip.

From the transition point at the back of the slip stroke, you are able to simply aim your hand at the intended aiming point on the OB and the cue goes along for the ride. The tip gets sandwiched in between the cue and the CB. If your bridge placement was proper at address, the tip should strike the CB where you intended it to. That's a big should for me.

Other possible benefits:

- lends itself to the lightest of grips since you can't "grip and rip" it even if you tried

- aids in a very smooth transition from back to forward stroke

- increases cue speed without addition muscular effort

- helps you get through the ball better

The last one is really important to me, because I often have trouble getting through the ball with my stroke. I quit on it and don't realize until the shot is gone and the CB just fizzles out on me.

By starting at address with the hand forward on the grip and then slipping it back to the correct position mid-stroke, you arrive back at the CB slightly before you think you will. The presence of the CB is often subconsciously viewed as an obstacle to be avoided. We are conditioned not to collide with things in our path. By striking the ball by "surprise" earlier in the stroke, you end up accelerating throughout the entire stroking distance, instead of proceeding through the finish with the same velocity.

Is this "accelerating through the ball"? Of course not, that's been shown to be impossible, but you are accelerating into the ball the entire way. Not only can this give you a bit more power, but it can lead to greater consistency since you've eliminated the variable of changing rates of acceleration.

I discussed this point with Phil Capelle on FB a while back, and he could see the validity of the thinking, so I'm sticking with it.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

i do not believe it is something that can be taught....mine just came naturally to me.

I'm not sure if it can or can't, but I'm gonna revisit this stroke following the suggestions given here in Tor Lowry's excellent tutorial.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VODQn8GtrMA

 

[terryhanna]

In another thread, there was a long debate over whether Mosconi, on occasion, used a slip stroke. Without going into the somewhat tedious hair-splitting about the definition of a slip stroke, for me, it entails sliding your hand toward the butt of the cue during the final backstroke. When I tried it 50 years ago, I did it to put more juice or spin on the cue ball. My slip stroke involved sliding my grip hand 2, 3, or, at most, 4 inches back toward the butt of the cue. For me, it seemed to increase the amount of spin on the cue ball at the expense of accuracy.

Just wondered if any of you old slip strokers, or young ones for that matter, agree or disagree with the purpose of the stroke.

Bill your from Dallas area right ? Do you Remember an old school Dallas player Junior we called him Slipstroke
He was one of the best hustlers i ever saw he would stall around to get the bet high
and then snap off the cash lol
At one time he played pretty sporty but never let on to his true speed.
He would sneak around town and take down some big scores sometimes

 

[3RAILKICK]

First, let's end the debate where WM had it or not.
He had it. Told to me by his ex-sparring partner Wayne Norcross.
Wayne is from PA and he copied his idol's stroke .
The purpose is obvious to me . Have a better practice stroke ( longer ) and by slipping , you're making the forearm perpendicular before tip hits the cue ball.

If Wayne said it, I believe it.

See Wayne Norcross' silky smooth slip stroke on the attached video. ..a little tough to watch since camera is hand held...but you get the idea. The man can play. Was a Johnson City straight pool contestant years ago.

I believe this to be a 'slip stroke' , not a 'stroke slip' cue throw.

take a dramamine and watch the vid and draw your own conclusion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb6CKYqTC98

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

If Wayne said it, I believe it.

See Wayne Norcross' silky smooth slip stroke on the attached video. ..a little tough to watch since camera is hand held...but you get the idea. The man can play. Was a Johnson City straight pool contestant years ago.

I believe this to be a 'slip stroke' , not a 'stroke slip' cue throw.

take a dramamine and watch the vid and draw your own conclusion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb6CKYqTC98

Shot at 1:14 he appears to do both. Very slick.

 

[3RAILKICK]

When I was noodling around with it that was one of the biggest potential benefits I saw. When you let go of the cue for that instant, you are able to draw your hand back straight along the shot line. The way I stroke, I visualize the hand is doing the stroking and try not to think about the CB, stick, or even the tip.

From the transition point at the back of the slip stroke, you are able to simply aim your hand at the intended aiming point on the OB and the cue goes along for the ride. The tip gets sandwiched in between the cue and the CB. If your bridge placement was proper at address, the tip should strike the CB where you intended it to. That's a big should for me.

Other possible benefits:

- lends itself to the lightest of grips since you can't "grip and rip" it even if you tried

- aids in a very smooth transition from back to forward stroke

- increases cue speed without addition muscular effort

- helps you get through the ball better

The last one is really important to me, because I often have trouble getting through the ball with my stroke. I quit on it and don't realize until the shot is gone and the CB just fizzles out on me.

By starting at address with the hand forward on the grip and then slipping it back to the correct position mid-stroke, you arrive back at the CB slightly before you think you will. The presence of the CB is often subconsciously viewed as an obstacle to be avoided. We are conditioned not to collide with things in our path. By striking the ball by "surprise" earlier in the stroke, you end up accelerating throughout the entire stroking distance, instead of proceeding through the finish with the same velocity.

Is this "accelerating through the ball"? Of course not, that's been shown to be impossible, but you are accelerating into the ball the entire way. Not only can this give you a bit more power, but it can lead to greater consistency since you've eliminated the variable of changing rates of acceleration.

I discussed this point with Phil Capelle on FB a while back, and he could see the validity of the thinking, so I'm sticking with it.

For yucks...ask Phil Capelle about Wayne Norcross' slip stroke. Phil has been on the East coast for years now, but used to frequent the same room as Wayne in Orange county California before he moved. Good chance he knows Wayne's stroke and game.

..will have to watch more or Tor's video...might be helpful.

 

[Johnnyt]

IMO the slip stroke is all show and no go. That's the reason everyone has a different opinion of what it does. Just something else to confuse the new players that want to learn what can help them. Johnnyt

 

[BillPorter]

Bill your from Dallas area right ? Do you Remember an old school Dallas player Junior we called him Slipstroke
He was one of the best hustlers i ever saw he would stall around to get the bet high
and then snap off the cash lol
At one time he played pretty sporty but never let on to his true speed.
He would sneak around town and take down some big scores sometimes

Sorry, "Junior" doesn't ring a bell for me. I was around the Dallas pool scene in the early 1960s. In those days, Billy Stroud was one of the best 9 Ball players in the area. Other names I recall off the top of my head are Jack and Alfie Taylor, Georgia Slim (Robert Burrell), Jerry Trigg, Dick McMorran (San Jose Dick), Red Fischer, Tommy Lambert, Charlie Hooker, Vernon Linton, Maurice Coker, and Jack Potter. Titanic Thompson, though not much of a pool player, was a well known gambler. All of these guys I knew from hanging around Cotton Bowling Palace at Lemon and Inwood.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

For yucks...ask Phil Capelle about Wayne Norcross' slip stroke. Phil has been on the East coast for years now, but used to frequent the same room as Wayne in Orange county California before he moved. Good chance he knows Wayne's stroke and game.

..will have to watch more or Tor's video...might be helpful.

Phil's probably reading this right now. Lol. I know he lurks, but no way he'd throw himself into this snake pit, though. I'll sent him a FB message later and hope he responds.