Pacquiao learns from Behrman

jojopiff

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
$8400 to sanction? The WPA was there at the venue. Why the hell didn't they get there a week or so early to see what they were sanctioning and have them fix the problems before the tournament got under way? IMO the WPA does nothing but collect a fee so they can vacation once a month. Why did they even go to this tournament...they didn't do a darn thing? Where did the WPA come from? Who gave them this power? I say all promoters should refuse to sanction any tournaments. Selling points and do nothing. Gee, and they put mob members in jail. The WPA is not needed. Any promoter can invite who they want or everybody. Any info they would need is right on AZB, and if it's not, they can get it. Johnnyt

What do you mean? WPA said:

"If this is correct, then a “sanction fee” of $8,400 has been taken out of the prize fund. I can assure everyone that the WPA certainly did not receive any part of this money."

so... why are you complaining about that $8400 in respect to the WPA?

I sure don't speak for Johnnyt. But I believe he means (and I also wonder) what their $8400 charge is for. They don't make sure all the money is there and they don't make sure the tables are in good condition. So, it appears, as if they show up, collect their money and don't give a rats ass about the players being paid or playing on subpar equipment.
 

jeffj2h

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The AZB article mention some pros have spoken out on Facebook. Anyone know which? I'd like to see their opinions.
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
I sure don't speak for Johnnyt. But I believe he means (and I also wonder) what their $8400 charge is for. They don't make sure all the money is there and they don't make sure the tables are in good condition. So, it appears, as if they show up, collect their money and don't give a rats ass about the players being paid or playing on subpar equipment.

Thank you...that is what I meant. Johnnyt
 

spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Article below from cuesportnation
2 errors in article- Biado was down 9-2 not 7-2 and prizemoney was $200K not $300K.
:D

http://cuesportnation.com/news.htm

Controversy Overshadows Ko Pin Yi World 10 Ball Championship Win
By: Markus Noé

This past weekend the 2015 World 10 Ball Championships wrapped up in the Philippines. A first time World Champion was crowned as Ko Pin Yi from Chinese Taipei beat local Carlo Biado 11-9 in the finale. Biado to his credit showed a lot of heart in front of the hometown crowd as he was down 7-2 at one point and clawed his way back to make for a very entertaining match.

It was another poor showing for North American players, as none finished higher than the top 32. When I say North American players I really mean Canadians as I believe only Hunter Lombardo and Rodney Morris made the trip over to represent U.S.A. Alex Pagulayan (Can) was the only one to make it through the final 32 and lost an 11-10 to Liu Haitao(CHN).

Unfortunately as so often is the case in major pool tournaments lately, there has been more talk about mismanagement and poor playing conditions which has overshadowed the fact that this has been the first World 10 Ball Championship in several years. The biggest concern is that around $10,000 was taken from the $300,000 prize fund, it amounted to 5% less for each player. Obviously there is some wrong doing and and players who traveled 15-24 hours by plane are rightfully upset. Azbilliards has a story posted today with a detailed response from the W.P.A, which briefly states they do not really know what happened, but an investigation will ensue.

Now understandably so this event had its flaws. However I do feel what many "Western" players and media have been doing this past week on social media is counter-intuitive to the betterment of the sport. From day one, even before the announcement of the missing money, players have been on social media complaining about everything from the conditions, the heat, the referees and the list is seemingly infinite. I reiterate by saying "Western" players because you just do not see this kind of lack of professionalism from the Asian players.

You would think that players would be more appreciative of the fact that Manny Pacquiao donated all of this money to try and give something to the pool community. On Azbilliards they are basically crucifying the Pacquiao's. I believe that Manny Pacquiao who is less than a year into his involvement, deserves a lot more room to grow before he is condemned as another shady promoter.

In all fairness what happened last week does not compare to the shenanigans that has plagued the U.S. Open, for what feels like the entirety of its existence. Financially you could not find a better candidate than "Pacman" to help grow the sport internationally. He is a millionaire a hundred times over and does not need to make a dime off any of these pool promotions. Let's be honest we need it because there is no money to be made off of pool at the moment.

Using logic the "Pacman" is not directly involved with the day to day operations of the World 10 Ball or any event his name is attached to. Besides his hectic training schedule he is also a high ranking politician. Thus he relies on people to take care of this stuff for him, and well he picked the wrong people. If the organizers of the U.S. Open are allowed chance after chance I think as players and media we not only have the ability but also the responsibility to be more supportive by easing up on a first time promoter who obviously has the right intentions. Whether you are a player, media, promoter or anyone that plans to make a living off of pool - our fates are all intertwined. Maybe once everyone gets to that level of thinking than we can collectively bring pool back to the mainstream. As is stands now with the bickering, complaining and lack of professionalism our sport is exactly where it deserves to be.
 

david(tx)

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would suggest you read the letter from Ian Anderson posted on the AZ Home page. He lays it all out pretty well as to what happened to the missing 5% extra taken from the players in the WPA Ten Ball event. The WPA had nothing to do with the Doubles tournament either.

I strongly suspect the problem lies not with Manny but with the people he entrusts the money too. I have heard he is often taken advantage of by his "hangers on." We all know full well this scenario, which has been the financial downfall of many successful athletes. I sure wish his wife Jinkee would take charge of these things, but I also suspect she isn't a big pool fan, because that caused some problems for Manny in the past.

I just hope that Manny gets an earful about all this, because he is a really good guy with a big heart. He needs to find people he can trust to be in charge of stuff like this, that's all.




I strongly suspect the problem lies not with Manny but with the people he entrusts the money too. I have heard he is often taken advantage of by his "hangers on." We all know full well this scenario, which has been the financial downfall of many successful athletes.


Don't know why any one would blame Manny P, he is the one fronting the money. It appears that the Ian guy wants a benefit without getting his hands dirty , the reality is the WPA has a weak structure of accountability in its organization . The WPA should be in control of the funds and responsible for the payouts , if they/he are going to sanction it . Just like in the case of the US Open 9 Ball event .People are looking for credibility in their events and a one man band can't provide it. The title of the thread shouldn't compare Manny P to Barry B , they should compare the WPA to Barry B.
 

david(tx)

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I strongly suspect the problem lies not with Manny but with the people he entrusts the money too. I have heard he is often taken advantage of by his "hangers on." We all know full well this scenario, which has been the financial downfall of many successful athletes.


Don't know why any one would blame Manny P, he is the one fronting the money. It appears that the Ian guy wants a benefit without getting his hands dirty , the reality is the WPA has a weak structure of accountability in its organization . The WPA should be in control of the funds and responsible for the payouts , if they/he are going to sanction it . Just like in the case of the US Open 9 Ball event .People are looking for credibility in their events and a one man band can't provide it. The title of the thread shouldn't compare Manny P to Barry B , they should compare the WPA to Barry B.

I'd also like to add that no one is going to turn over their money to an organization with one officer like the WPA, would you ?Someone living in a 3rd world country controlled by a ruling family itself .If the WPA has other unpaid officers then someone credible from within the org. needs to be at every event to give confidence to the players who are usually in a financial hole already .
 

smashmouth

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here's the WPA Tournament Sanctioning Catalogue: http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/tournament_sanctioning_catalogue

It includes a section titled "What benefits does the organiser receive from his sanction"

ty....seems like a lot of bs


1. The date will be reserved and must be respected by the WPA members.
2. (Category A) A WPA representative is present. He arrives 2 days before the event and leaves 1 day after the event (the accommodation costs will be paid by the organiser). His main task is to support the organisation and the participants.
3. The WPA representative is at the venue for technical support.
4. The event information is distributed by the WPA and its members.
5. The use of the WPA logo for publicity purposes is allowed.
6. Points are awarded for the world ranking.
7. The WPA makes the medals available. (Category A)
8. For Category A events only: if requested, referees can be provided. The costs will be divided between three partners: the organiser, the WPA and the continental federation which is supplying the referee(s)
 

Jerry Forsyth

Well-known member
Allow me to clear a few misconceptions. First, the WPA WAS there a week ahead of time. But this is a small island city so getting new tables to the venue in time was impossible. The WPA had three representatives at the event and their Sport Director was the one who intervened and got the bad referees thrown out.

Manny was there. You can see him in the photos of the finals.

The WPA did not receive the 5% “sanction” fee. That was taken by the Pacquiao family member who were in charge of the event- his brother Bobby and wife Lorelei.

What the pool world gets from the WPA is a member in the IOC. Without the WPA the Olympic committee would not have pool listed as an Olympic discipline and would never consider it for the games. This is done through the ‘Parent’ of the WPA, the WCBS, which represents pool, carom and snooker to the IOC.

“There is no money in pool tournaments”. Very true. “Fans’ do not attend them so sponsors have no reason to support them.

No one is condemning Manny. It has been made very clear that it is his brother and sister-in-law who committed the misdeeds. However, it is ultimately Manny’s responsibility to make the money good. His name is on the events, his name is on the contracts. He is responsible. We do not crucify people by speaking the truth about them. Those who wish to avoid bad publicity should act accordingly.

“The WPA should take charge of these events and handle the payouts.” OK. So find me just one promoter who will agree to do this. Bet you can’t.

The WPA does not just have one officer. It has six.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
No Stroke

Allow me to clear a few misconceptions. First, the WPA WAS there a week ahead of time. But this is a small island city so getting new tables to the venue in time was impossible. The WPA had three representatives at the event and their Sport Director was the one who intervened and got the bad referees thrown out.

Manny was there. You can see him in the photos of the finals.

The WPA did not receive the 5% “sanction” fee. That was taken by the Pacquiao family member who were in charge of the event- his brother Bobby and wife Lorelei.

What the pool world gets from the WPA is a member in the IOC. Without the WPA the Olympic committee would not have pool listed as an Olympic discipline and would never consider it for the games. This is done through the ‘Parent’ of the WPA, the WCBS, which represents pool, carom and snooker to the IOC.

“There is no money in pool tournaments”. Very true. “Fans’ do not attend them so sponsors have no reason to support them.

No one is condemning Manny. It has been made very clear that it is his brother and sister-in-law who committed the misdeeds. However, it is ultimately Manny’s responsibility to make the money good. His name is on the events, his name is on the contracts. He is responsible. We do not crucify people by speaking the truth about them. Those who wish to avoid bad publicity should act accordingly.

“The WPA should take charge of these events and handle the payouts.” OK. So find me just one promoter who will agree to do this. Bet you can’t.

The WPA does not just have one officer. It has six.

No Stroke....Please give us all your response to JF's above response to your OP. I'd like to hear ''your side of the story''. To help us all understand your reasoning to Compare MP to BB.
 

david(tx)

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Allow me to clear a few misconceptions. First, the WPA WAS there a week ahead of time. But this is a small island city so getting new tables to the venue in time was impossible. The WPA had three representatives at the event and their Sport Director was the one who intervened and got the bad referees thrown out.

Manny was there. You can see him in the photos of the finals.

The WPA did not receive the 5% “sanction” fee. That was taken by the Pacquiao family member who were in charge of the event- his brother Bobby and wife Lorelei.

What the pool world gets from the WPA is a member in the IOC. Without the WPA the Olympic committee would not have pool listed as an Olympic discipline and would never consider it for the games. This is done through the ‘Parent’ of the WPA, the WCBS, which represents pool, carom and snooker to the IOC.

“There is no money in pool tournaments”. Very true. “Fans’ do not attend them so sponsors have no reason to support them.

No one is condemning Manny. It has been made very clear that it is his brother and sister-in-law who committed the misdeeds. However, it is ultimately Manny’s responsibility to make the money good. His name is on the events, his name is on the contracts. He is responsible. We do not crucify people by speaking the truth about them. Those who wish to avoid bad publicity should act accordingly.

“The WPA should take charge of these events and handle the payouts.” OK. So find me just one promoter who will agree to do this. Bet you can’t.

The WPA does not just have one officer. It has six.

The WPA should take charge of these events and handle the payouts.” OK. So find me just one promoter who will agree to do this. Bet you can’t.


Then what is the value of WPA sanctioning ?The value of org. is weak in pool.If it weren't for revenue sharing , MLB would fold.The politics of each sport/game are different. It seems without a benefactor the WPA is doomed.Pool had one for a while but it seems he was a crook.
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No Stroke....Please give us all your response to JF's above response to your OP. I'd like to hear ''your side of the story''. To help us all understand your reasoning to Compare MP to BB.

It was a tongue in cheek title. There was no comparison made. Do you really think i thought Manny had a sitdown w BB and learned the advantages of stiffing people and then implemented the plan?
 
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Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
It was a tongue in cheek title. There was no comparison made. Do you really think i thought Manny had a sitdown w BB and learned the advantages of stiffing people and then implemented the plan?

But why even jokingly trash and inaugural event, when MP has the ability to change the entire professional pool landscape????? We should embrace his efforts and his willingness to do something for the players, and give em the benefit of the doubt before we sucker punch em, even if it was not intended.
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
But why even jokingly trash and inaugural event, when MP has the ability to change the entire professional pool landscape????? We should embrace his efforts and his willingness to do something for the players, and give em the benefit of the doubt before we sucker punch em, even if it was not intended.



So I should be exactly like you? I would appreciate your specific life lessons on everything so i can finally get this thing right!:)
 

jojopiff

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
But why even jokingly trash and inaugural event, when MP has the ability to change the entire professional pool landscape????? We should embrace his efforts and his willingness to do something for the players, and give em the benefit of the doubt before we sucker punch em, even if it was not intended.

It appears the facts of the event are:

1. Money was short
2. Some referees were clueless
3. Equipment was subpar

One can be appreciative and hopeful that MP will do great things for our sport without turning a blind eye to what are clearly unacceptable practices.

The reasons (excuses) for these shortcomings are irrelevant. When one owns the business they get the "attaboys" as well as taking the responsibility when something goes wrong. I don't think he should be burned at the stake but to not at least point out the similar problem that one of our biggest events has had for years, is impossible to ignore.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
So I should be exactly like you? I would appreciate your specific life lessons on everything so i can finally get this thing right!:)

Look before you leap, I've had OP that I wished I could take back. I've hit my head many times in life is all. I've got no beef with you. I'll just write it off as a miscue and a bad choice of wording. I do it all the time. My annoyance comes from the BCA office, and quitting my good job because all I saw was.....''what's in it for me'' ie ME BUSINESS, not the sport, not the entire industry, when they at the time with 3 million in the bank, just piddled it away to where they are now.
 

Mark Griffin

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Pacquiao

Jerry,

Thanks for the clarification.

I cannot believe the wolf pack mentality that so many have exhibited on AZ and the social media.

The idea should be to embrace Manny and to help keep him involved.

That is what I was saying when I offered to assist. Doing a pool tournament is pretty complex - and the attention to details can be overpowering. Everybody thinks it is simple.

Well think again!

Without the WPA - there would be no recognized path to a World Championship. It would revert back to the 'wild west' - and turn into a cluster.

I wish people could realize the potential damage they can cause by their irresponsible posts - that are often just not true to start with.

Please try to think before you hit send. Try to do what is better for the industry - and stop stroking your ego by trying to cause controversy.

Mark Griffin
 

HelloBaby-

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jerry,

Thanks for the clarification.

I cannot believe the wolf pack mentality that so many have exhibited on AZ and the social media.

The idea should be to embrace Manny and to help keep him involved.

That is what I was saying when I offered to assist. Doing a pool tournament is pretty complex - and the attention to details can be overpowering. Everybody thinks it is simple.

Well think again!

Without the WPA - there would be no recognized path to a World Championship. It would revert back to the 'wild west' - and turn into a cluster.

I wish people could realize the potential damage they can cause by their irresponsible posts - that are often just not true to start with.

Please try to think before you hit send. Try to do what is better for the industry - and stop stroking your ego by trying to cause controversy.

Mark Griffin

Many people and other pool related sites show their support and hope that Manny will make it right, none of them blame him for the error of people he entrusted.

The only player I know that openly complained on FB is Rodney Morris.( AZB Article said some players did post on FB )
The only place that shows no support for Manny is AZB Forum.

What a coincidence both are made in USA...

I don't think and I hope they won't cause any damage because ,to be honest, over there in the EAST who give a s***t what some random American guys said. And they sure will not give a s***t if the next tourney no Americans show up, there were only 2 or 3 in this one anyway. And finally, did Rodney Morris got banned somewhere for not knowing how to keep his mouth shut ?
 

PINKLADY

ICNBB
Silver Member
Jerry,

Thanks for the clarification.

I cannot believe the wolf pack mentality that so many have exhibited on AZ and the social media.

The idea should be to embrace Manny and to help keep him involved.

That is what I was saying when I offered to assist. Doing a pool tournament is pretty complex - and the attention to details can be overpowering. Everybody thinks it is simple.

Well think again!

Without the WPA - there would be no recognized path to a World Championship. It would revert back to the 'wild west' - and turn into a cluster.

I wish people could realize the potential damage they can cause by their irresponsible posts - that are often just not true to start with.

Please try to think before you hit send. Try to do what is better for the industry - and stop stroking your ego by trying to cause controversy.

Mark Griffin

Mark:

please enlighten me, cause i'm a layman.
- what do they bring to the table?
- and how do they enforce said?

i thank you for your response.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Mark:

please enlighten me, cause i'm a layman.
- what do they bring to the table?
- and how do they enforce said?

i thank you for your response.

Possibilities/effort/organization/honesty/6 member board/and a path for change and recognition to the USOC. It's what we have, we should support it. Kevin Trudeau....was a crook up front....all ya had ta do was Google or try and get your money back.
 

watchez

What time is it?
Silver Member
Mark:

please enlighten me, cause i'm a layman.
- what do they bring to the table?
- and how do they enforce said?

i thank you for your response.

And when is the World Championships going to take place --- I am talking about one that is planned, where a players points matter and not an event created and at the last minute the words World Championship is added to the title?
 
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