You quoted Dave's post about the "test" on page 14 which started the whole conversation. So actually, it was the other way around.
But we all know how you love to mis-remember...oops, I mean make things up.
Fear of Feel
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
You quoted Dave's post about the "test" on page 14 which started the whole conversation. So actually, it was the other way around.
But we all know how you love to mis-remember...oops, I mean make things up.
He initiated a conversation by quoting me earlier in the day. Perhaps you were still in school then.
That's all the food you're getting from me. Have at it if you like.
He did.
Of course it bears no relevance to the current conversation. You see, Rick, conversations can change from page to page in a forum.
Sorry, I'm not teaching overall communication today. Perhaps someone else can grade your paper.
This is interesting to me. As an aside, I do something like this already on shots less than 5 degrees. When the shot is almost straight in and I need to do more than TOI with the cue ball, I pivot from center a half tip to outside and cinch balls. I create angles fairly well with it, too. :thumbup:
I'll try it out tonight.
Best,
Mike
Let's really derail this thread!
How does a basketball player aim and shoot?
By feel?
By Center To Edge (CTE) aiming at the basket?
By Center To Center (CTC) aiming at the inside of the hoop?
By Ball To Backboard (BTB) aiming at the backboard?
By Ball To Backboard With Spin (BTBWS) aiming at the backboard?
I think "feel" plays a major part in playing pool...at least in my game.
How does a basketball player aim and shoot?
By feel?
By Center To Edge (CTE) aiming at the basket?
By Center To Center (CTC) aiming at the inside of the hoop?
By Ball To Backboard (BTB) aiming at the backboard?
By Ball To Backboard With Spin (BTBWS) aiming at the backboard?
I think "feel" plays a major part in playing pool...at least in my game.
Very nice Mahalo!
Judging by the loud objections every time it's suggested, lots of system users here have difficulty accepting even the possibility that their system might not "cure" feel.
Generally, yes.
That's where we differ. I think there are systems, methods and some simple principles that provide structure and assistance to the aim-by-feel process, but can't eliminate it or even reduce it substantially.
I think that's simply the nature of aligning two spheres by sight to create the large number of angles needed. No "formula" exists to do that, at least not one that can be used by a pool player at the table.
I think the best we can do is learn to recognize the right CB/OB alignment (shot picture, visual, whatever) when we see it, and we must rely on training our subconscious to do that through repetitive trial and error - with whatever structure and assistance we can give it by way of principles, methods and systems.
If I'm right and feel is a necessary part of how we aim, I think it's probably best (most effective) to face it with eyes open.
pj
chgo
Feel in Delivery.
I know at some point you saw CSI podcast 24 if I am correct with Corey Duel and John Schmidt.
Regardless of anyones beliefs on aiming and whether or not there is "feel" in it. John Schmidt around the 26 minute mark of that video if I remember correctly talks about Aiming being one thing with delivery being quite another.
So how does one deliver a cue ball that is very much closer to an object that is far away when there is a considerable parallax?
He would have had to have done it before regardless of aiming system, method etc.
He gets his windup aims his cue, his equidistant contact points, arranges his spheres or whatever he does and that subject to the stroke being straight lets the shot go when all appears in line and correct.
There is feel in that delivery, otherwise there wouldn't be confirmation of the visuals as I have heard you guys say and I could care less about it.
I can see how you might want to eliminate all the feel you can in the process and you guys are stating that and I m all for it....thank you very much.
I just don't understand the continual bickering over something that sounds like a bunch of children arguing on the playground and I could honestly care less.
I don't know what Patrick has or has not done, I dont care.
I don't know what Stan or anyone else has done I dont care.
But you guys "not pointing anyone out"....are grown men and should act like it.
I felt that from the bottom of my heart.....lol
I know at some point you saw CSI podcast 24 if I am correct with Corey Duel and John Schmidt.
Regardless of anyones beliefs on aiming and whether or not there is "feel" in it. John Schmidt around the 26 minute mark of that video if I remember correctly talks about Aiming being one thing with delivery being quite another.
So how does one deliver a cue ball that is very much closer to an object that is far away when there is a considerable parallax?
He would have had to have done it before regardless of aiming system, method etc.
He gets his windup aims his cue, his equidistant contact points, arranges his spheres or whatever he does and that subject to the stroke being straight lets the shot go when all appears in line and correct.
There is feel in that delivery, otherwise there wouldn't be confirmation of the visuals as I have heard you guys say and I could care less about it.
I can see how you might want to eliminate all the feel you can in the process and you guys are stating that and I m all for it....thank you very much.
I just don't understand the continual bickering over something that sounds like a bunch of children arguing on the playground and I could honestly care less.
I don't know what Patrick has or has not done, I dont care.
I don't know what Stan or anyone else has done I dont care.
But you guys "not pointing anyone out"....are grown men and should act like it.
I felt that from the bottom of my heart.....lol
"If you are right", but you admit you aren't a system user, so how are we to assume you are right?
it doesn't really matter, besides I'm starving!!! Gotta go.....
Maybe this thread should be called "Fear of Feelings" - Do men even have those things?
Women are more in touch with their feel/feelings - shouldn't they perform better in shot-making and other aspects of pool better than men?
Maybe it's something else, perhaps the physical or mental part of the game?
Hmmm, whatever.... guess it doesn't really matter.... besides I feel......hungry...gotta go. :thumbup:
Maybe this thread should be called "Fear of Feelings" - Do men even have those things?
Women are more in touch with their feel/feelings - shouldn't they perform better in shot-making and other aspects of pool better than men?
Maybe it's something else, perhaps the physical or mental part of the game?
Hmmm, whatever.... guess it doesn't really matter.... besides I feel......hungry...gotta go. :thumbup:
..........
You speak the truth my friend, anyone says others wise is what??:smile:
How in the heck can you play without it.
Some funny Shit said on this forum.
Maybe this thread should be called "Fear of Feelings" - Do men even have those things?
Women are more in touch with their feel/feelings - shouldn't they perform better in shot-making and other aspects of pool better than men?
Maybe it's something else, perhaps the physical or mental part of the game?
Hmmm, whatever.... guess it doesn't really matter.... besides I feel......hungry...gotta go. :thumbup:
How do you come up this ?? Its creepy.
Where have you been? Creeping and lurking?:smile:
This looks very similar to 8pack's aiming system, he uses the 2 tip positions on the CB and 3 aim targets on the OB and pivots to center (it was in another thread, but he deleted the image for some reason), and the only difference is that his aimpoints on the OB are inside edge, center and outside edge.
Neil -- it seems to me that what you did, as described above, is not consistent with Dave's instructions.
Dave said: "Address the CB with 1/2 tip of INSIDE English from center and the tip of your cue aimed at the CENTER of the OB. Then PIVOT back to the center of the CB"
If I read you correctly, Neil, you aimed center to center, then shifted the stick 1/2 tip to the inside, then pivoted back to CB center. So once you shifted the stick (a parallel shift, presumably, as you weren't looking at the OB), the cue was no longer aimed at OB center. Dave's instruction, on the other hand, has the stick aimed at OB center prior to the pivot. Post pivot, your way and Dave's way also would have the stick pointing in slightly different directions.
Dave asked: "So the question is, WHY do these different angled shots all go in with the same starting offset, pivoting back to center, aiming at the CENTER of the OB?"
I imagine a key reason is that a given offset and pivot back to center creates a larger cut angle as the distance between the OB and CB increases, and the three shots are of increasing CB/OB separation. A given movement (pivot) of the tip at the CB is effectively a greater movement "on" the OB as the OB appears smaller with distance.
[Incidentally, I had to go to a slightly larger offset for the third shot than for the first two, as you said might be necessary.]
That just blew 10 years of practicing BHE out of the water
Unless the cut angle you were going for was about 4 degrees or you are pivoting from way shorter than your cue's pivot point, or you're swerving the shot, or... you're intuitively adjusting your bridge during the pivot.Colin
DIRECTIONS: Place an OB dead center in the side pocket with the front of the ball accurately measured at 8" from the pocket edge. It should be marked off to the side with a piece of tape or notebook reinforcement because you'll be moving the CB to multiple spots.
Place the back of the CB centered 10" away from the 1st diamond at the other side pocket for a right cut shot. As you align the CB with the OB, straight in should look like it will hit the tip of the pocket. Address the CB with 1/2 tip of INSIDE English from center and the tip of your cue aimed at the CENTER of the OB. Then PIVOT back to the center of the CB and take the shot. It should go in.
Set the OB back to the same preset spot. Move the CB one more diamond away from the side pocket toward the corner pocket to increase the angle with the same 10" away. Address the CB the same way as above with inside offset aiming to center OB and then pivot back to center and take the shot. Should also go in even though it was the same aim point to center of OB and pivot to center.
Set the OB back and now move the CB 10" from the FIRST diamond on the END rail from the corner pocket of the rail you've been shooting from. Now a straight in shot would be aimed slightly more than one diamond beyond the side pocket for the OB.
Do everything the same as before. 1/2 tip inside center CB to center of OB and then pivot back to center of CB. You may make it or your may not. If you miss more than you make use ONE TIP of inside instead of 1/2 tip when pivoting back to center.
So the question is, WHY do these different angled shots all go in with the same starting offset, pivoting back to center, aiming at the CENTER of the OB?
The same results can be duplicated by aiming your tip at the CENTER of the OB while addressing the CENTER of the CB but pivoting 1/2 tip to OUTSIDE English.
As you increase the angle further, your new aim point will be 1/2 way between center and edge with the same tip offsets and either pivoting back to center CB from inside or outside from center.