I'll Take A Poor Looking Stroke That Works

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
IMO people should be looking to have a stroke that works...not a stroke that looks good. How many top pros with poor LOOKING strokes do we need to see before we get that everyone's different. I looked great on the bag in the gym, but when I got in the ring someone hit back. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
IMO people should be looking to have a stroke that works...not a stroke that looks good. How many top pros with poor LOOKING strokes do we need to see before we get that everyone's different. I looked great on the bag in the gym, but when I got in the ring someone hit back. Johnnyt
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What's the problem with having both?
 
Johnnyt said:
I looked great on the bag in the gym, but when I got in the ring someone hit back. Johnnyt
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LOL Spot on .
Wasn't there the story that William Tell asked Genghis Khan why they shoot so well
Genghis replied that they shoot moving target on moving horse while others shoot stationery target

:wink:
 
I think a functional stroke that's consistent and repeatable is the main thing. Wouldn't teach imperfect mechanics, but at some point leaving the player alone is probably the right idea if they're well-accomplished.

The fly in the ointment is that imperfect strokes are frequently more prone to bad habits too. What to correct vs. just moving on and focusing time that's better spent elsewhere. That's why the swing coaches in the major sports make the big bucks :-)
 
Johnnyt said:
IMO people should be looking to have a stroke that works...not a stroke that looks good. How many top pros with poor LOOKING strokes do we need to see before we get that everyone's different. I looked great on the bag in the gym, but when I got in the ring someone hit back. Johnnyt
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Hey Johnny,
Your post reminded me of a video I came across yesterday. A very entertaining frame of snooker, contrasting the silky stroke of Stephen Hendy with the Jerky Jabby Super Swipey Alex Higgins.

I doubt there's a US pool instructor in the world who has ever had the potting accuracy of Alex Higgins... he is an enigma!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAMEW6EASiY&feature=youtu.be

I recommend his stroke style to all my opponents ;-)
 
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"I looked great on the bag in the gym, but when I got in the ring someone hit back."

i think every player has strengths and weaknesses.having a smooth stroke, or a powerful stroke, or a consistent stroke are just assets. same as having a powerful punch, or a fast punch, or a straight punch are assets. they dont win you the fight though. there is much more to being a successful player/fighter than just having a good jab or a good stroke. its the whole package.... putting it all together for the win. but there is a textbook style for a reason...
 
Johnnyt said:
IMO people should be looking to have a stroke that works...not a stroke that looks good. How many top pros with poor LOOKING strokes do we need to see before we get that everyone's different. I looked great on the bag in the gym, but when I got in the ring someone hit back. Johnnyt
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Oliver Ortmann has one of the worse techniques I have ever seen on the pro circuit. But every knows how great a shooter he is and his record speaks for itself.
Oliver is also one of the best players to watch to learn from. :thumbup:
 
Johnnyt said:
IMO people should be looking to have a stroke that works...not a stroke that looks good.
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A stroke that "looks good" is the one most likely to produce the desired result - that's why it looks good. Good players with "ugly" strokes probably play well in spite of that, not because of it.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
A stroke that "looks good" is the one most likely to produce the desired result - that's why it looks good. Good players with "ugly" strokes probably play well in spite of that, not because of it.

pj
chgo
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I agree. A beginning player would be better served with an orthodox approach, it would help cut the learning curve down by developing a repeatable stroke that holds up well under pressure.

The point of when to change the stroke of a more accomplished player is tricky. It seems top golfers are always changing or adjusting their swing, think Tiger Woods. I think it comes down to the goals of each player and how much time they have for improvement. As great as a player Allen Hopkins is, if he had a more orthodox stroke he might even have had a higher potential.
 
If it aint broken, don't fix it. When someone has grooved a stroke that looks a bit wonky, to a high standard, I believe one should be very careful about changing it. Not every player sees a shot the same way, not everyones hand is exactly the same etc...If however the player is being inconsistent, then revisiting and revising the fundamentals is in order. Not everyone can look like Davis, Murphy et al. That's ok, you don't have to be textbook perfect as long as you are consistent. Are you going to change Bustamante's stroke to a textbook snooker stroke? Of course not, and if you are you should be stripped of your coaching credentials!
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Are you going to change Bustamante's stroke to a textbook snooker stroke? Of course not, and if you are you should be stripped of your coaching credentials!
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I think whoever coaches Bustamente probably doesn't need any help from us AzB posters.

But for all those lesser players looking for advice about how to develop their stroke, "whatever you feel like doing" probably isn't helpful.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I think whoever coaches Bustamente probably doesn't need any help from us AzB posters.

But for all those lesser players looking for advice about how to develop their stroke, "whatever you feel like doing" probably isn't helpful.

pj
chgo
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The goal is not the fundamentals. The fundamentals are there to ensure the result, which is what we desire. Even if the textbook stuff statistically is more likely to produce good result, it is not the only way to get there. In some cases it may not even be the best way to get there. One should work with the player, and someone who forces "good form" over a long time and sees little improvement, may benefit from looking at other ways to do things. Are you going to teach a 50 year old, obese man the stiff back leg snooker stance for the pool table? How about someone with back/neck problems? Well, you probably can't. Should they therefore give up on ever becoming better at pool? Again no. One can easily achieve correct head position and arm alignment with other means. Other parts of the stroke may also have to be compromised on. Not everyone can stroke as smoothly as Hendry, for instance. If their stroke is in line and they have a decent touch, that is what is important. The smoothness is not the goal in itself, it is the results produced by it.
 
Johnnyt said:
IMO people should be looking to have a stroke that works...not a stroke that looks good. How many top pros with poor LOOKING strokes do we need to see before we get that everyone's different. I looked great on the bag in the gym, but when I got in the ring someone hit back. Johnnyt
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I agree 100% Johnny.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
If it aint broken, don't fix it. When someone has grooved a stroke that looks a bit wonky, to a high standard, I believe one should be very careful about changing it. Not every player sees a shot the same way, not everyones hand is exactly the same etc...If however the player is being inconsistent, then revisiting and revising the fundamentals is in order. Not everyone can look like Davis, Murphy et al. That's ok, you don't have to be textbook perfect as long as you are consistent. Are you going to change Bustamante's stroke to a textbook snooker stroke? Of course not, and if you are you should be stripped of your coaching credentials!
Click to expand...

...:thumbup2:...
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I think whoever coaches Bustamente probably doesn't need any help from us AzB posters.

But for all those lesser players looking for advice about how to develop their stroke, "whatever you feel like doing" probably isn't helpful.

pj
chgo
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Johnny said whatever works, not whatever you feel like doing.
 
Here's an example..

You should always strive to have a textbook stroke.. To suggest otherwise is silly.

Not all people are capable of stroking correctly.

I had a friend who wanted me to teach him how to throw knives.

He had had 9 surgeries by the time he was 18 months old including having 3 of his vertebrae fused.

I tried at first to teach him to throw with the proper technique, but he couldn't move his body that way. So after analyzing how he was moving when he tried, I had him change a couple of things and bammo, he started sticking it every time.

However, to teach someone to just do whatever feels right is asinine...

There's a reason that what looks good, looks good and it's not aesthetics, it's because the most of the best players have done exactly that.

There are instances where there are diminishing returns in trying to correct bad mechanics and it really depends on how close to your ultimate potential you want to get, but to suggest that mechanics aren't important because of a few professional anomalies is not helpful...

Jaden
 
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