Bad Problem with John Showman, (Cue Stolen)
- Thread starter Quality Cues
- Start date
So, when is the man of the hour himself going to... ahem... Show up here? We're waiting with bated breath
I'm willing to bet a large sum of money that Showman will never post to this thread. There is no valid excuse for his failure to finish the project or return my cue after I demanded that he do so by my certified letter of 4/7/15. Let's not forget, I own the cue and have the right to have any other cue maker on the planet work on it if I see fit. I wanted my friend Eric Crisp to complete the project when Showman failed to do it, but Showman had the audicity to tell me that he could not let that happen. Who does this contract breacher and liar think he is telling me that he cannot let Eric work on my cue? Nobody should ever trust Showman again or put a penny in his pocket. He is taking a serious beat down in this thread and deserves all of it and more, so please pile on.
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In the internet age businesses have to be on their toes. Bad news travels at light speed. I've noticed the difference at say my car mechanic. They are just bending over backwards to make things right. One bad review and business is impacted.
I've had questionable experiences with cue makers. In my own business I would be litigated against if I acted that way. The facts are that room owners etc. have always treated pool players with contempt.
I've had questionable experiences with cue makers. In my own business I would be litigated against if I acted that way. The facts are that room owners etc. have always treated pool players with contempt.
Absolutely, actually I was going to call John about getting a cue made after watching the TAR Showman dvd. But after hearing this no way. Mike thank you for posting this, I hope John man's up and attempts to make good.
sorry to learn of your bad experience Mike. Too bad a master cue maker would be like this.
the more i read about ppl speaking up their bad experience with cue maker, the more I feel lucky for the years I have been collecting cues and appreciate my connections with some great ppl here on AzB, including Mike.
All the best, Mike. I hope you get back what yours soon.
Cuong.
the more i read about ppl speaking up their bad experience with cue maker, the more I feel lucky for the years I have been collecting cues and appreciate my connections with some great ppl here on AzB, including Mike.
All the best, Mike. I hope you get back what yours soon.
Cuong.
I must say that I have not seen an officer of the court act in the manner which you are here on this public forum.
Maybe you should "flip a coin" to see if you decide to post like this again.
Maybe you should "flip a coin" to see if you decide to post like this again.
U N B E L I E V A B L E! The cuemaker has literally stolen the guys cue. He kept it, and will not return it. Who knows for what reason (did he break it, steal it, keep it for himself?). And you have the NERVE to come on here and say the OP is out of line?!
This is the circling of the wagons alluded to earlier in the thread. Attack the victim, protect the value of your own cues, or future orders or whatever.
The guy has not claimed to be here in any official capacity, and the fact that you try to bring up his occupational status is only an attempt at deflecting the thread away from it's very real and noble purpose: To warn others from becoming victims of this behavior. It's sad that someone will stoop so low as to try to sabotage that. I salute the OP for doing the right thing, to bring this to the public attention, instead of keeping his head down and grovel for his cue.
Ignore me or attack me, IDK. I allready have a custom cue, I don't need to grovel and kiss ass, I consider myself an impartial observer. I have, however, had the experience of watching friends in my country be jerked around by cuemakers overseas and be powerless to do anything about it, in fact the person from which I purchased my cue was the victim of two such incidents, both involving high dollar cuemakers. Therefore posts, like those of the op, are invaluable for potential customers who may not be able to just show up at the guys door with the Sheriff to get their cue.
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This has now reached the stage of absolute lunacy........"He would not allow Eric Crisp to work on your cue".........anyone else recall the episode on Seinfeld when the mechanic stole Jerry's Saab because he was neglecting it..........OMG......presuming this was true and I haven't any reason as of now to be skeptical......this is ......what is it....someone help me out here because all I come up with is misappropriation of another person's personal property which many consider to be a form of theft.....what else can you call it? Jeez......, this is really criminal.....both figuratively and literally........he has stolen your cue and refuses to return it......screw working on it.....just get your cue back and he says he can't do that or won;t that.......Why? Is he suffering from Alzheimer.....this cue is not his property........it belongs to someone else..........you...........you're legally entitled to get it back. What's there to research or think about.........or the cash equivalent.........I dunno how much but let's not go there with this thread........it's about getting your cue returned.......he has to know this is not going to go away.
Matt B.
p.s. OP is totally in line with the overall purpose & objectives of the Forum......a mission statement in action so to speak......presuming this is true, it's condemnable & cannot be condoned or excused nor defended.
Matt B.
p.s. OP is totally in line with the overall purpose & objectives of the Forum......a mission statement in action so to speak......presuming this is true, it's condemnable & cannot be condoned or excused nor defended.
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Add me to the list of those that feel he has actually been very restrained about this whole thing., both in his dealings with the cue maker, and with his posts in this thread. I haven't seen anything at all that was out of line and actually quite the opposite, very restrained and professional.
What gets me is that John is one of only a handful of makers that can actually control their future. His work is exceptional and among the best there is. He could stay busy getting top dollar directly from the customer for as long as he could make cues. He must be in a pretty bad "way" not to be taking advantage of that let alone be a party to a situation that Mike is going through....
At one time I would have agreed with you. At one time a Showman was high on my list of must acquires, now do to multiple reasons I just don't see it that way. Every bad story, post, and transaction, hurts not only the cue maker but also his resale and reputation.
I for one have removed Showman from my list of must acquires and feel that many people who once would have given a deposit and waited years to get a cue now would never do so. Mr Showman is imploding.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I never said anyone should send him money or order a cue. I said his workmanship is among the best there is and that he is one of only a few that could control his future.. If he wanted to. Sadly it looks as though he's not taking advantage of THAT. As for you thinking his indiscretions will affect the market for his cues I think your sadly mistaken... His work will ALWAYS be top tier regardless and with not many examples leaving the shop the value will only increase. It may be unfortunate for some to accept into their own morality but quality is quality is quality.... Don't matter what the media or product. And as such will always be desirable. In fact if Mike can get this cue back with the work completed as asked it'd be worth MORE than 7k regardless of the story(s) attached...
I think a custom cue maker could possibly corner the market of high end buyers simply by having a very organized process to build cues, that he makes public to his customers. So, they could check in at any time and see the status of their cue. I'm not talking about just random pictures once in a while. I mean something like FedEX tracking. At any given time you can see the last checkpoint of your shipping status. Something like that for a cue.
Now, this is of course way beyond the realm of most anyone that is not a computer expert, but if a cue maker were to have a system like this (and followed it), I think they could double whatever their current price is, and have enough work to require hiring employees
Now, this is of course way beyond the realm of most anyone that is not a computer expert, but if a cue maker were to have a system like this (and followed it), I think they could double whatever their current price is, and have enough work to require hiring employees
lol GTFO of here.
Lol! Is that you John?
Quality is quality but there is the issue like Mike is experiencing lets call it service after the sale. There are so many top tier guys that you don't have to put up with this nonsense . Why would one want to torture themselves? Life is too short.
My dealing...
7 years ago I requested a super fancy cue from John. We spend many times emailing and calling. I filled out an order form, mailed it, a price of $8,000.00 was requested for said cue in full. I said I'll take it.
He explained to me he has an 8year wait, he's behind, if people cancel or he can't find them people move up and you could get the cue faster. I said ok where do I send the check, he replied "NO NO NO NO DONT SEND ANYTHING YET ILL LET YOU KNOW"
7 years later nothing and all kinds of bad stories.
I just hope Mike gets his cue back. I'm glad he didn't say ok send me a check because I would be pissed getting strung along like most makers with a list does today. "Most" list cue makers are always very interesting in their dealings.
7 years ago I requested a super fancy cue from John. We spend many times emailing and calling. I filled out an order form, mailed it, a price of $8,000.00 was requested for said cue in full. I said I'll take it.
He explained to me he has an 8year wait, he's behind, if people cancel or he can't find them people move up and you could get the cue faster. I said ok where do I send the check, he replied "NO NO NO NO DONT SEND ANYTHING YET ILL LET YOU KNOW"
7 years later nothing and all kinds of bad stories.
I just hope Mike gets his cue back. I'm glad he didn't say ok send me a check because I would be pissed getting strung along like most makers with a list does today. "Most" list cue makers are always very interesting in their dealings.
Such a shame. IMHO John would have been considered one of the top five cuemakers in the world. I would have loved to own one of his very fancy traditional style cues. But, after all of the events from the past ten years, I have zero interest.
Just my 2 cents..........
JimmyK
Just my 2 cents..........
JimmyK
RBC
Deceased
I think there's a trap that high end custom cue makers can and often do fall into.
Let's say the CM makes 4 cues per month, and his wait list is about 6 months. Each month he takes 4 new orders, and takes a 50% deposit. Also, each month he delivers 4 cues, so basically, he gets paid for 4 cues each month. As long as he builds 4 cues every month, and gets 4 new orders, his monthly income is based on 4 cues per month, and he owes roughly 24 cues to be debt free.
Now, let's say his demand increases, and he's taking 8 orders per month. Now, he's getting extra money. If he doesn't put it in the bank, and most of them don't, then he's falling into the trap. It's not long and the wait time to get one of his cues is several years, which means that the new orders stop coming in. Now, all of a sudden, he owes cues for years, and only has half his normal income to look forward to until those orders are filled or the new orders start coming back in.
I don't know if this is what happened to John, but it certainly could have.
It's a bad situation, any way you look at it. It's just another reason that, especially to those without the right experience, running a business can be very tough at times.
Royce
Let's say the CM makes 4 cues per month, and his wait list is about 6 months. Each month he takes 4 new orders, and takes a 50% deposit. Also, each month he delivers 4 cues, so basically, he gets paid for 4 cues each month. As long as he builds 4 cues every month, and gets 4 new orders, his monthly income is based on 4 cues per month, and he owes roughly 24 cues to be debt free.
Now, let's say his demand increases, and he's taking 8 orders per month. Now, he's getting extra money. If he doesn't put it in the bank, and most of them don't, then he's falling into the trap. It's not long and the wait time to get one of his cues is several years, which means that the new orders stop coming in. Now, all of a sudden, he owes cues for years, and only has half his normal income to look forward to until those orders are filled or the new orders start coming back in.
I don't know if this is what happened to John, but it certainly could have.
It's a bad situation, any way you look at it. It's just another reason that, especially to those without the right experience, running a business can be very tough at times.
Royce