Controllable Eye Dominance

[ENGLISH!]

And yet we (at least some of us) can consciously choose which eye's view will dominate our vision, at least momentarily.

To see the different picture you're getting from each eye, point at a distant object with your index finger then close your eyes one at a time. If the finger remains pointing at the object, that's your dominant eye - but if the finger "jumps" to the side of the object, that's your non-dominant eye. With both eyes open the non-dominant eye's view of the finger off to the side is there all the time, but we "filter" it out so it isn't noticed, focusing our "visual attention" on the dominant eye's view.

However, with both eyes open I can simply choose to focus my visual attention on the view from either eye, and "filter out" the other view. Try it.

pj
chgo

Patrick,

By that type of test I am still right eye dominant. Gene will be the first to tell you that that is not the type of test to do for determining one's 'dominant' eye for pool or I guess maybe I will be the first or you already know this.

Fran is correct in that 'dominant' adjective is almost usually incorrectly applied. That is why I try to always qualify it with the phrase, 'for pool'.

I believe Pidge posted a manner of determining which eye sees best 'for pool a while back & someone even has a board that I believe they are selling that is similar & they are both like the tape that OnePocketJohn put from on the rail & then onto the table. Gene has his method with a cue & a couple of balls.

I think determining this appropriately is probably the single most important aspect.

One might think that see straight until they actually do see straight or have verified that they actually do see straight.

 

[ceebee]

I don't know... but stereo vision at the rifle range won't hurt too many targets. Unless of course, you are using a shot gun at 20 paces.

 

[FranCrimi]

I've never heard that before (about the optic nerve). It's true that the left half of the left eye's nerves goes to the left hemisphere and its right half goes to the right hemisphere. Is that what you mean by straight back vs. diagonally?

I'd be interested in a reference to this if you have one. Honestly, I'd be surprised if a relationship between the optic nerve and eye dominance has ever been demonstrated, at least in people. They don't usually dig into human brains to determine something non-life-threatening like sighting eye dominance.

I'm afraid I don't know the answer to your question about the hemispheres. I gave several pool lessons to an ophthalmologist, and as you can imagine, I had a ton of questions for him, which he was very kind to answer in great detail. I imagine the information about the physical dominant eye would be in anatomy books.

I've since tried to do some research online and found that the information was all over the place because of the different definitions of 'dominant eye.'

 

[Dunnn51]

I won't reply ...

It is really quite simple once fully understood.



IF you are looking at a target with 1 eye : You are using mon-ocular vision.

IF you are looking at a target with 2 eyes : You are using bi-nocular vision.

Your brain automatically adjusts.

This is one of the miracles of life. A bum's brain knows trigonometry, yet he knows it not.

If you have ever taken a "statistics" course in college;you would know that things are not always what they seem/appear to be. There is a logical explanation however.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...that is not the type of test to do for determining one's 'dominant' eye for pool

I'm not trying to define it for pool; just illustrating what I'm doing with it.

pj
chgo

 

[dr_dave]

In my view, concerning pool, it doesn't really matter which eye might be "dominant" or not, regardless of your definition. All that really matters is the head position that best allows you to visualize the shot line and alignment of the cue. That's what I call "vision center." It is possible that a person's vision center has nothing to do with what eye might be "dominant" or not. For more info, see the vision center and dominant eye resource pages.

As PJ has pointed out, if one eye is closed, vision impaired, or ignored, the vision center is with the other eye directly over the line of the shot.

Regards,
Dave

 

[FranCrimi]

In my view, concerning pool, it doesn't really matter which eye might be "dominant" or not, regardless of your definition. All that really matters is the head position that best allows you to visualize the shot line and alignment of the cue. That's what I call "vision center." It is possible that a person's vision center has nothing to do with what eye might be "dominant" or not. For more info, see the vision center and dominant eye resource pages.

As PJ has pointed out, if one eye is closed, vision impaired, or ignored, the vision center is with the other eye directly over the line of the shot.

Regards,
Dave

That's like saying it doesn't matter if you're right or left-handed. Just throw the ball with the arm that works best for you.

 

[dr_dave]

In my view, concerning pool, it doesn't really matter which eye might be "dominant" or not, regardless of your definition. All that really matters is the head position that best allows you to visualize the shot line and alignment of the cue. That's what I call "vision center." It is possible that a person's vision center has nothing to do with what eye might be "dominant" or not. For more info, see the vision center and dominant eye resource pages.

As PJ has pointed out, if one eye is closed, vision impaired, or ignored, the vision center is with the other eye directly over the line of the shot.

Regards,
Dave

That's like saying it doesn't matter if you're right or left-handed. Just throw the ball with the arm that works best for you.

Fran, IMO, your analogy is a bit ridiculous.

Some pool players spend a lot of time talking about which of their eyes is "dominant" (e.g., from an ocular dominance test that really doesn't apply to playing pool) and they try to force themselves into a certain alignment based on this "information," and this alignment is wrong for them. Instead, it is better to ignore all of the mumbo jumbo (with everybody seemingly having different definitions), and just find your personal "vision center" position through easy tests and drills. In doing so, they might realize that their head and cue need to be in places different than what some "theories" might suggest.

Personally, I think accurate "vision center" placement is the most important fundamental of pool, and it is not always related to which eye might be "dominant" or not.

Regards,
Dave

 

[FranCrimi]

Fran, IMO, your analogy is a bit ridiculous.

Some pool players spend a lot of time talking about which of their eyes is "dominant" (e.g., from an ocular dominance test that really doesn't apply to playing pool) and they try to force themselves into a certain alignment based on this "information," and this alignment is wrong for them. Instead, it is better to ignore all of the mumbo jumbo (with everybody seemingly having different definitions), and just find your personal "vision center" position through easy tests and drills. In doing so, they might realize that their head and cue need to be in places different than what some "theories" might suggest.

Personally, I think accurate "vision center" placement is the most important fundamental of pool, and it is not always related to which eye might be "dominant" or not.

Regards,
Dave

Well, I disagree, Dave. What you are suggesting is theory and not practical.

Knowing which eye is pulling in the information first, regardless of accuracy, is hugely important. You can try to change all you want, but the physically dominant eye will continually try to take over.

I think you're approaching it backwards. First understand what the dominant eye is seeing and then adjust your aim accordingly. This way, you aren't always fighting what's most natural. Eventually those adjustments that you make consciously with your cue under your dominant eye will become second nature.

The severity of the dominance can be taken into account, which will help the player in cue placement under the eye.

 

[Pidge]

That's like saying it doesn't matter if you're right or left-handed. Just throw the ball with the arm that works best for you.

Eye dominance doesn't matter for some. Like me, it doesn't seem to help if I have my dominant left eye over the cue, or sighting with it above the line of aim. I sight with the imaginary line of aim going directly through the centre of my eyes, and cue with the cue in the same position. For others, probably most people this isn't the case and understanding which eye is dominant and how dominant will make them sight and cue with it under that eye and will produce the best results. But for me, having the cue under my left eye in the most "dominant" position and having the cue under my eye causes me to cue horribly. I get a warped sense of the direction I'm pulling the cue back. Although I'm pulling back perfectly straight it likes like I'm pulling back diagonally and causes me to try correct a perfectly good pull back on the delivery.

A person's eyes are almost as unique as their fingerprints. No one can definitively say you are wrong or you are right on this subject. No one can see exactly how another person sees.

 

[dr_dave]

Some pool players spend a lot of time talking about which of their eyes is "dominant" (e.g., from an ocular dominance test that really doesn't apply to playing pool) and they try to force themselves into a certain alignment based on this "information," and this alignment is wrong for them. Instead, it is better to ignore all of the mumbo jumbo (with everybody seemingly having different definitions), and just find your personal "vision center" position through easy tests and drills. In doing so, they might realize that their head and cue need to be in places different than what some "theories" might suggest.

Personally, I think accurate "vision center" placement is the most important fundamental of pool, and it is not always related to which eye might be "dominant" or not.

Well, I disagree, Dave. What you are suggesting is theory and not practical.

Knowing which eye is pulling in the information first, regardless of accuracy, is hugely important. You can try to change all you want, but the physically dominant eye will continually try to take over.

I think you're approaching it backwards. First understand what the dominant eye is seeing and then adjust your aim accordingly. This way, you aren't always fighting what's most natural. Eventually those adjustments that you make consciously with your cue under your dominant eye will become second nature.

The severity of the dominance can be taken into account, which will help the player in cue placement under the eye.

My "theory" is to ignore all ocular dominance "information" and labels and just find one's personal "vision center" at the table with a simple drill. That sounds very practical to me.

It sounds like your theory involves first determining a person's dominant eye (e.g., with any of the standard ocular dominance tests). Your theory is that the person's head position needs to favor this eye (either partially or completely, depending on the degree of dominance). I am sorry is I misinterpreted your "theory." You can correct me if I and wrong.

Regardless, there are many people out there who violate this theory. Many people best visualize the line of the shot, cue alignment, and CB center, with the cue perfectly centered between their eyes (even when one of their eyes is officially "dominant"). There actually are advantages to doing this (for more info, see the discussion around Diagram 4 in the following article: "Aim, Align, Sight - Part II: Visual Alignment" - BD, July, 2011).

Some people's "vision center" position is with their dominant eye directly over the cue. It sounds like this might be the case for you. For some people with a strongly dominant eye, the vision center position will be with the cue slightly inside of or even outside of the eye (away from the nose). I don't think it is possible to come up with a theory that relates optimal "vision center" position to eye dominance. 3D stereoscopic vision is a very complicated thing and there are significant differences in visual perception from one person to the next. That's why I prefer the practical (non theoretical) approach on this topic.

Regards,
Dave

 

[BRussell]

I'm afraid I don't know the answer to your question about the hemispheres. I gave several pool lessons to an ophthalmologist, and as you can imagine, I had a ton of questions for him, which he was very kind to answer in great detail. I imagine the information about the physical dominant eye would be in anatomy books.

I work in a department with an eye-brain (animal) researcher, and he doesn't have much on it. If you read some of the academic work, it seems like no one really understands it, or does much research on it.

I've since tried to do some research online and found that the information was all over the place because of the different definitions of 'dominant eye.'

I think that's exactly right. Dominant to us is what they seem to call "sighting dominance," i.e., which eye is looking through the hole, and the only people who really seem to care about it other than us are rifle shooters. Most of the eye-brain researchers who work on this stuff seem to focus on other definitions of it, such as the eye that needs the less correction = the dominant eye. Apparently that's correlated with sighting dominance, but it's not even close to a 1:1 correspondence.

pj - your reference to ocular dominance columns is (I think) an example of this. I don't think the term dominance there is referring to sighting dominance.

But for what it's worth, I believe my aim is better when I move so the cue is closer to under my dominant eye.

 

[pdcue]

I have found many times in this forum that one of the problems in discussing eye dominance is in the different definitions of a dominant eye.

Here's the definition of a physically dominant eye: The physically dominant eye has more nerves that go straight back to the brain as opposed to the recessive eye, which has more nerves that extend diagonally to the brain. The brain receives the information quicker from the eye with the nerves that go straight back --- shortest distance between two points.

The only way to change a physically dominant eye is in childhood where these nerves are still developing.

The other definition of dominant eye is more obtuse, which involves training an eye through exercise to be stronger and closer to equal with the dominant eye. While it can get stronger, it will never be the dominant eye in an adult. It's physically impossible unless there is a pathology like blindness in one eye.

Depending on the physical nerve configuration, some people have a severely dominant eye and some --- not so dominant. Players like myself, with a severely dominant eye, have to be careful not to let the cue drift too far outside the eye. It can happen very easily because the eye is so strong (not necessarily the better eye visually, but the stronger eye in sending the image to the brain). When the cue drifts too far outside the eye, it can cause a distorted view of where the center of the cue ball is.

If the cue placement falls outside the dominant eye, severely right-eye dominant people may see the left side of the cb as center ball. And the opposite holds true for those with severely dominant left eyes.

Thank you Ms Crimi for the best ever explanation on the forum of the true meaning of Dominant Eye.

NOW... if you can just teach AZBers to read

Dale(who is overwhelming right eye dominant)

 

[genomachino]

Eye dominance matters for everyone......

1. Nobody has the cue perfectly between their eyes.

2. The pointing and circle looking through tests don't work. Ask any eye doctor that is worth his salt and he will tell you so. I tried to use these methods for 6 months on the road and I realized that they were very inaccurate. Excuse me. They will work for half the people. 50% swear by them and 50% swear at them. Just like guessing, you get 50% correct.

3. You are stuck with the eye that is dominant all your life. At a young age you can force a child to use one hand or the other and make them right handed or left handed but the dominant eye will stay the same. Fact not guessing.

4. Ocular vision is when the player can only see the shot with one eye like Fran. Players like her can't put the cue towards the middle. It makes the shot not even close to envisioning it properly. John Morra is like this. He keeps his head real square so it is real easy to see the cue is directly under the left eye. He's right handed. Players like Scott Frost appear to have the cue over too far but this is where he sees the shot Perfectly.

5. Mono vision and ocular vision is not the same. Ocular is the correct description for what I'm talking about. I think Chris Renfro called it paralux vision. I know that's not the right spelling. He shoots with just one eye like John Morra.

6. Players or teachers that have ocular vision don't have a clue as to how other players are fighting to keep their dominant eye dominant. They can however help players by showing them the traditional aspects of the game. Many things are the same when paying little attention to the eye dominance. Stance, stroke, bridge and so on. Just because they don't know this about the eyes doesn't mean they can't teach pool well.

These are not theories but hard facts that I have personally learned while traveling for 5 years on the road with over 2,000 personal lessons and over 7,000 mini lessons.

The first couple of years that I taught Perfect Aim I kind of struggled because I was still learning how all this worked. There was no blue print to follow or no one to copy.

In fact in the first couple of years of teaching this a friend of mine, Dave Nelson gave my video to a player. He couldn't figure out how it worked but he explained the best he could how he thought it worked. Wasn't even close.

Dr dave put this misinformation on his website saying this is what Perfect aim was. Not even close. I even asked Dr dave to take the misinformation off his site. He refused. Now that, I really don't understand? Why would you want something on your site that isn't true?

Today every lesson is a total 100% winner. Every player is totally amazed at what they learn.

The old video that I have is about 5 years old. that is why I have the players that buy my video call me for the free phone lesson. When we get done they totally understand how this works and are on their way to shooting the best pool of their lives.

Just had 5 kids that I worked with won the MPA team tourney in Minnesota. It's a handicapped tournament and these kids were all rated individually. After learning what they learned their ratings were to low. They won $10,000 for first. That's how fast most players improve after learning the whole picture with Perfect Aim.

I'm pretty sick right now and having a hard time playing. I'm still giving lessons. I gave one tonight with a good player named Tom at Shooters. It was great.

Ray Hansen worked with me in Texas 2 years ago and recorded the new video. It needs to be edited and he's been to busy doing great things in the pool world to get at it. He's going to put the info on a hard drive and send it to me soon. My brother is pretty good at editing and is going to help get the new one done with all the good information. I also have some professional help if needed.

When this finally gets done there will not be any more guessing about this or that. These will be the hard cold facts regarding how the eyes work. It will be explained so anyone can understand it clearly.

This whole thing about letting the eyes naturally do things is pretty messed up after you learn how to do some manual things to help the brain, eyes and body work together properly.

Every player that picks up a stick needs to know this and some day this will be the first thing a player will learn when picking up a stick.


This will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

There is no guessing or theories.

I couldn't have figured this out without traveling and working with 30 to 100 players a week. There is absolutely no way anyone was going to figure it out, the whole puzzle, sitting in one spot doing 1 or 2 lessons a week.

I'm done with my rant but I just had to speak up.

It's kind of funny. I only recall a few players in 6 years that didn't understand how this worked when taught. Those were in the first couple of years.

Can anyone come up with anyone that said anything negative about Perfect Aim.

With the 1,000s of lessons you would think there would be hundreds popping up if it didn't work.

Think about it?

 

[BeiberLvr]

Gene,

Did you see this thread I created http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=5320833#post5320833

I'd be interested in your feedback.

 

[336Robin]

Right Eye Right Eye

I'm left handed, left eye somewhat dominant. For most of my pool playing years I shot with the cue comfortably a little left of my chin, not all the way under my somewhat dominant left eye. This gave me a stereo view of my shaft that I could interpret pretty easily and accurately.

But I've always wondered if it would be easier and more accurate to do the final alignment part of aiming with one eye rather than interpreting a stereo view from two eyes. The one eyed view, I reasoned, would be more like aiming a rifle even though the eye is above the stick.

So I've been experimenting with focusing more of my "visual attention" on my dominant left eye when I'm down on a shot, and holding the cue more fully under my dominant eye. The results are promising so far - shifting my focus more fully to my dominant eye as I get down to shoot is becoming an easy, non-strenuous habit, and it has noticeably clarified the shot picture for me, making final aiming alignment more simple, reliable and accurate.

Anybody else do this purposely - or notice that you do it automatically?

Geno, does this make sense to you?

pj
chgo

I was talking to One Pocket John about my left eye dominance and trouble with long straight ins I had started having. He told me to line my cue under my right eye and shoot a few shots, leave it there and see what I thought. I was real surprised that I had trouble missing them when I did that. I typically put the cue between both eyes and yes I have noticed the down on the shot position seems different but that doesn't seem to bother me. I haven't paid much attention lately to where my cue is but I have noted that if I have a particularly hard straight in where I have to stun the ball. I will get down on the shot and align under my right eye and stroke and say to myself RightEye RightEye a couple of times and pot the shot on the 3rd stroke with much less problems than I would have thought. If Im not using stun I don't seem to have trouble making the shot and letting the ball roll as I planned with the cue in the middle of my vision center. Weird but that's what Ive been doing.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me everybody's wrong but me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me

Thanks for your... um... input.

pj
chgo

 

[FranCrimi]

And yet we (at least some of us) can consciously choose which eye's view will dominate our vision, at least momentarily.

To see the different picture you're getting from each eye, point at a distant object with your index finger then close your eyes one at a time. If the finger remains pointing at the object, that's your dominant eye - but if the finger "jumps" to the side of the object, that's your non-dominant eye. With both eyes open the non-dominant eye's view of the finger off to the side is there all the time, but we "filter" it out so it isn't noticed, focusing our "visual attention" on the dominant eye's view.

However, with both eyes open I can simply choose to focus my visual attention on the view from either eye, and "filter out" the other view. Try it.

pj
chgo

I tried it. You can go into a stare and make yourself see double vision, but I don't think you can truly block out the view from the dominant eye unless you close it.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I tried it. You can go into a stare and make yourself see double vision, but I don't think you can truly block out the view from the dominant eye unless you close it.

I can when I'm doing the pointing test (in fact, I can make the offline finger appear and disappear at will), and it's partly based on how easy and sure that is that I came to believe I can do it while aiming - but I'm not so sure any more about doing it while aiming.

Since posting this thread I've been paying even closer attention, and think it may just seem to me like I'm doing it while aiming, although I'm not certain either way yet - it's a slippery perception. I'm guessing it's harder to do from above than sighting along the thing being pointed.

Anyway, even if it's an illusion, it's been a helpful one so far - worth working on some more, I think.

pj
chgo

 

[dr_dave]

... in the first couple of years of teaching this a friend of mine, Dave Nelson gave my video to a player. He couldn't figure out how it worked but he explained the best he could how he thought it worked. Wasn't even close.

Dr dave put this misinformation on his website saying this is what Perfect aim was. Not even close. I even asked Dr dave to take the misinformation off his site. He refused. Now that, I really don't understand? Why would you want something on your site that isn't true?

For the record, the information from my site that you claim is incorrect is included below in blue. The only part I wrote is the first two sentences that include a link to your website. Much of the remaining info consists of direct quotes from you, which are what I thought were the most informational excerpts of anything else you have written in your thousands of Perfect Aim posts on AZB.

The remainder, which is what I think you have an issue with, is the quote from PJ, which contains excerpts from his honest review of your DVD (with some of his disparaging comments edited out, in respect to you). Whether you like it or not, it is a review by a veteran and respected (albeit, not always "appreciated") member of the AZB community. I also carefully viewed your DVD multiple times, and I think PJ's description is about as accurate as possible, given the presentation on the DVD. Maybe the information you provide when you give personal lessons is different than what is on the DVD, but that doesn't change what is on the DVD. If you come out with a new DVD that contains newer, different, and/or better information, I would be happy to look at it and provide a new and brief summarizing description on the site.

I know you have asked me to remove the Perfect Aim section from my site numerous times, but I don't think that is appropriate based on what is there and given the time and effort you and others have put forth in attempting to describe Perfect Aim in simple and clear terms. Also, when you put out a DVD and people post honest reviews, it is inappropriate to attempt to censor those reviews.

Regards, and with respect,
Dave

PS: Gene, I think you have done a great job in your teachings and postings on AZB to help increase the awareness of the importance of proper visual alignment in pool. Like you, I firmly believe this is the most important fundamental of pool that many instructional books and videos fail to give adequate attention.



from the aiming systems resource page:

Perfect Aim is a method of sighting recommended by Gene Albrecht. It is about getting the eyes in the right place for different types of shots.

from Gene Albrecht (in AZB post):

This is what Perfect aim is all about: Making sure the dominant eye is in the most dominant position making sure the other eye is not being dominant at all. This allows your eyes to work together in the most efficient way to envision the shot as Perfectly as possible.

from Gene Albrecht (in AZB post):

Cutting to the right and the left.

One is a dominant eye and the other is non dominant.

When we cut to the right it is the right eye and when we cut to the left it is the left eye.

from Gene Albrecht (in AZB post):

The head position will always be the same for every shot.

The hard part is knowing how to get there and keep it there for all shots.

from Patrick Johnson (in AZB post):

[In Gene's Perfect Aim DVD, he suggests] that we should sight all pool shots by aligning the "inside" edge of the CB with the place on the OB where it should overlap for the cut angle we want, and that we should position the eye nearest that side of the CB directly over this line to get the truest picture of it. For instance:

- for a 30-degree cut to the left (a 1/2 ball hit), sight from the CB’s left edge to the exact center of the OB by positioning the left eye over that line

- for a 49-degree cut to the right (a 1/4 ball hit), sight from the CB’s right edge to the point 1/2 radius in from the OB’s left edge by positioning the right eye over that line

- for a straight shot, sight from the CB’s edge to the OB’s edge by positioning the dominant eye over that line (obviously, using the edges on the dominant eye side)

... Gene is a very good player with many high-level tournament notches on his belt ...