Dark ages? Priceless. I'm arguing with a bunch of 55+ year old relics that are using a throwback material from the Middle Ages...and you're bringing ME out?
Hahahaha...go back to playing with your ivory encrusted Mace.
California Cue-Makers - No More Ivory......
- Thread starter Bavafongoul
- Start date
- Status
Dark ages? Priceless. I'm arguing with a bunch of 55+ year old relics that are using a throwback material from the Middle Ages...and you're bringing ME out?
Hahahaha...go back to playing with your ivory encrusted Mace.
And we are arguing with someone that thinks additional regulation is the answer and someone who is still wet behind the ears to the rest of the world and how it works. Take into account to that the flag of Canada should just be a white sheet, and we now know where the problem is.
Seriously, no one is against the elephants. We are against over regulations, when the current regulations were not even being enforced. So a knee jerk reaction in unwarranted. Enforce the regulations that are already on the books. I would have no issue with that. Also you cannot penalize people who have invested LEGALLY, whether its cues, combs, canes, chess sets, netsuke whatever, under a new law without the possibility of reimbursement.
See Shawn, there will be people your age looking to cash out their fathers, grandfathers collections at some point. Making that illegal is the problem.
Guys like Victor Gordon, he deserves the book, max penalty. The Chinese woman that employed an ARMY of poachers, the same. She should have to give up their names to be spared the needle. I am with all that. I have a problem not grandfathering in, legally obtained collections and pieces. I am not for modifying a 150/250 year old violin bow because of this new law.
Did you see HBO real sports this week? Big segment on the ivory and elephants. Trophy hunter with 10-12 sets of tusks in his living room, animal heads and carpets all over. Africa still has a corruption problem, and the 91 year old King that recently had a party where they served....... baby ELEPHANTS.
Did you see the rangers? All the antiquated weapons, that money from the WWE and their friends should be replenishing.. oh wait.. then they couldn't live cushy off those donations. All the money bought in for these causes when 3 cents on the dollar actually gets put to anti-poaching.
Not 55, but wise to real world issues and how the world operates. BTW your "link" yeah there are issues.. the big liberal argument of you can't tell a newly made piece form an antique, well in that article, they without questions said that a lot of pieces were NOT made with antique ivory, but new. So now you can magically tell. I guess it depends on which side of their mouths they are talking from.
JV
Seriously, no one is against the elephants. We are against over regulations, when the current regulations were not even being enforced. So a knee jerk reaction in unwarranted. Enforce the regulations that are already on the books. I would have no issue with that. Also you cannot penalize people who have invested LEGALLY, whether its cues, combs, canes, chess sets, netsuke whatever, under a new law without the possibility of reimbursement.
See Shawn, there will be people your age looking to cash out their fathers, grandfathers collections at some point. Making that illegal is the problem.
Guys like Victor Gordon, he deserves the book, max penalty. The Chinese woman that employed an ARMY of poachers, the same. She should have to give up their names to be spared the needle. I am with all that. I have a problem not grandfathering in, legally obtained collections and pieces. I am not for modifying a 150/250 year old violin bow because of this new law.
Did you see HBO real sports this week? Big segment on the ivory and elephants. Trophy hunter with 10-12 sets of tusks in his living room, animal heads and carpets all over. Africa still has a corruption problem, and the 91 year old King that recently had a party where they served....... baby ELEPHANTS.
Did you see the rangers? All the antiquated weapons, that money from the WWE and their friends should be replenishing.. oh wait.. then they couldn't live cushy off those donations. All the money bought in for these causes when 3 cents on the dollar actually gets put to anti-poaching.
Not 55, but wise to real world issues and how the world operates. BTW your "link" yeah there are issues.. the big liberal argument of you can't tell a newly made piece form an antique, well in that article, they without questions said that a lot of pieces were NOT made with antique ivory, but new. So now you can magically tell. I guess it depends on which side of their mouths they are talking from.
JV
The question that begs to be answered is whether the ivory that was destroyed in NY and Denver was collected during attempted importation or during attempts to export the material.
The FWLS is vague if not outright silent on this.
If anyone chooses to clarify this one way or another, it would be most helpful to provide links to documentation as opposed to links to news stories which tend to sensationalize the public event.
Thanks.
No, you just don't like being told you can't have something. self entitled American.
The real truth is that these laws are being put into place so fast across the country because people like yourself are a small minority.
Put your prized collection of ivory made cues on display at any major college campus in the country and see what type of reaction you get from it. There won't be a single person who thinks 'wow....what an amazing collection. I hope I can have one like that in the future.'
Like the elephant, you're ideas in this country are on the road to extinction.
So, the answer is "more guns". Right. If you can't beat them, kill them. I'm not sure if you're conservative, or communist. That seems to be right in line with the thoughts of every single dictator known to man.
You say I don't understand demand, yet you say pretty much exactly what I've said, to correct my misunderstanding of demand. Hmmm.....
Plain and simple - supply and demand. The model for all economics. Where supply and demand meet, you get the equilibrium price. We experience this in day to day items like detergent, toothpaste, etc. The market has set the price, the consumer buys the item, and if they don't like the price of Brand A, they buy the cheaper brand B, and Brand A either goes out of business, or changes their price to reflect the market. Ivory - there is a shortage of "supply", because your supply source is a living, breathing animal. Similar to sheep's wool. The issue with ivory is that it had the "potential" to be a sustainable resource. We can shear a sheep many times. Virgin wool is the first cut, but other cuts of the sheep's coat are still functional. We could just wait for the tusks to fall off, harvest them, without issue.
However, when demand exceeds supply, higher prices can be demanded, due to the economic phenomenon called "scarcity". If you have one item that 10 people want, you can charge more, because consumers will compete with each other. This is what has occurred in the ivory market. Your source of ivory is dwindling on a daily basis, because a dead elephant cannot produce ivory. Meanwhile, the world population is increasing. So, you have more people bidding for less resources. That is why the price is high, and it will do nothing but get higher. The reason poaching is even a viable business is because of this ridiculous world market value of ivory. $1500-2000 per pound, times 150 pounds (weight of a tusk) times 2 (two tusks) is $450-600k. That's the economic value of an African Elephant. That buys a lot of guns for a warlord in Africa. So, regardless of what you think about you and your "needs", and how they don't contribute to the killing of those elephants all over the world....the simple fact that you will pay a ludicrous sum of money for the "pre ban" ivory sets the water mark for the fair market value of ivory...which in turn allows a warlord to do some simple math, and figure out that killing elephants is pretty darn economically profitable, although short lived.
Did I make that simple enough for you to follow? I can hardly wait to hear what part I screwed up this time....
You can smuggle ivory to those countries a lot easier than to the US.
By foot, even. How much is caught by percentage, we don't know.
Dude....keep blaming other countries. 7 tonnes of illegal ivory, in two states, were destroyed. Quit saying "but Jimmy has more than me". You are part of the problem.
Back off buddy, the horse isn't dead yet.
Are u sure those were state confiscated items. I thought they were federal. Also the items in Denver were from 20 to 25 years of confiscation. Paints a whole different picture.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Shawn, you may have "direction" to your "opinion" with Ivory BUT to spew such rhetoric about guns is blatant ignorance and speaks more to the entitlement of Canadiens than what ANY American has access to... If it wasn't for the fact the WE the "US of A" ARE and for the past 100 years been the protectors of the free world including keeping the nasties off YOUR shoreline, that's right Shawn you're welcome, YOURE government wouldn't have been able to make the lefty socialist choices it had. That's right Shawn. WE GAVE YOU THAT. US! The USA. The fact that you would even "go there" PROVES what a greenhorn in life you really are and solidifies the level of your ACTUAL knowledge leaving nothing but a spoiled little child throwing a tantrum... I would say maybe you'll grow up someday but in the surroundings you in, that can't happen....
Oh this is juicy!!!!!!!!!!
Allow me to retort:
- "If it wasn't for the fact the WE the "US of A" ARE and for the past 100 years been the protectors of the free world"
At very best you would be the self appointed protectors of the free world, in reality it's nothing but hegemony
- "YOURE government wouldn't have been able to make the lefty socialist choices it had. That's right Shawn. WE GAVE YOU THAT. US! The USA"
You gave us nothing, in fact we burned your ruddy Whitehouse to the ground. History B1tch, don't believe me check out the war of 1812
The new laws will do nothing to protect elephants....nadda....zip...nope.
The only thing this new regulation will do is hurt the law abiding citizens who invested heavily in the ivory trade and have the proper documents that prove this. These individuals have followed all legal processes and now will be left holding the bag.
The best way to ensure the survival of the African Elephants is to intercede and supply resources to the guys on the front lines that protect the elephants from poaching. This is the ONLY point at which there is any hope to correct the issues.
One thing for sure, you can talk about it all you want and blame each other or deny the issues all the while another elephant dies. Debate is not action and action is required. Maybe the Canadian GVT. and the US GVT. form a task force and invest in the protection of said elephants.
The only thing this new regulation will do is hurt the law abiding citizens who invested heavily in the ivory trade and have the proper documents that prove this. These individuals have followed all legal processes and now will be left holding the bag.
The best way to ensure the survival of the African Elephants is to intercede and supply resources to the guys on the front lines that protect the elephants from poaching. This is the ONLY point at which there is any hope to correct the issues.
One thing for sure, you can talk about it all you want and blame each other or deny the issues all the while another elephant dies. Debate is not action and action is required. Maybe the Canadian GVT. and the US GVT. form a task force and invest in the protection of said elephants.
Right, and what would have prevented Hitler from nuking the world?
They shoild because WWF is a scam.
USA is the only country in the world to have dropped a nuke on a civilian population.
The only country.
- Status