You-tube ripping us off must read

[one stroke]

Creditable sources? There are several. $5 per 1000 views. So if you want to take the high side and let us know what that basic math equates. I'd be happier with a $2.4million assesment, than the conservative figure of $500k.

Also to bust your hokum theory. $5 per 1000 with the leader in the live streaming world since 2006 (Inside Pool), equates for about $32k a year in revenue from YouTube. Ba humbug. I could only imagine the missed revenue from Ustream.

Now that's funny


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[Goldy]

What Erica actualy is doing is biting the hand that feeds pro pool players
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HUH? Please elaborate.

 

[Goldy]

As far as money is concerned it equates to about $5 per 1,000 views. I have well over a million views on YouTube so that equals about $5,000 in ad revenue from them but guess what, most of my videos have background music in it so I can't make money off of them. I would literally have to mute the audio on videos to make money off of them.

It would be less embarrassing for you to simply admit you're making it all up.

I guess Lenny makes this stuff up as well, eh? Stop with the negativity. lol..

 

[Blue Jam]

Creditable sources? There are several. $5 per 1000 views. So if you want to take the high side and let us know what that basic math equates. I'd be happier with a $2.4million assesment, than the conservative figure of $500k.

Also to bust your hokum theory. $5 per 1000 with the leader in the live streaming world since 2006 (Inside Pool), equates for about $32k a year in revenue from YouTube. Ba humbug. I could only imagine the missed revenue from Ustream.

Just noticed the extra paragraph you edited into that post.

So, the leader in the live streaming world (your words) makes $32K a year from youtube advertising (which I have no reason to believe since writing it on a forum proves nothing). You're a fan of asking people to "do the math" so where is the other $468,000.00 coming from?

It's been said before, but the problem with debating with an idiot, is that they'll drag you down the their level and beat you with experience.

 

[Goldy]

Just noticed the extra paragraph you edited into that post.

So, the leader in the live streaming world (your words) makes $32K a year from youtube advertising (which I have no reason to believe since writing it on a forum proves nothing). You're a fan of asking people to "do the math" so where is the other $468,000.00 coming from?

It's been said before, but the problem with debating with an idiot, is that they'll drag you down the their level and beat you with experience.

If you just follow the hints, leads, and do math you end up with a figure in the millions. Heck, take the net worth of the business, and divide the percentage of billiards videos versus all of YouTube's content, and then take 10% of that, and you're still over $500k.

To let bygones be bygones here, the fact of the matter is, even if the REAL # equated to $32k. $32k is better than the current disposition, WHICH IS ZERO.

 

[one stroke]

HUH? Please elaborate.

First off you don't get paid per views ,, you get paid by viewers clicking on attached adds and watching them for atleast 30 seconds , you could have 50k views and no advertising clicks ,, so you make zero ,, when advertising gets clicked they pay YouTube who in return pay the poster
So let's say CSI has a advertisement with thier videos and the players now want a cut of that , this knocks down thier revenue in return has less money to put up in tournaments
So they decide why bother posting videos because it's not worth the hassle and pool gets less exposure ,, lose , lose

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[nateobot]

You fell into the honey hole and gave to much thought to the headline.

We all understand what YouTube does. The point that is often missed in this thread (and other threads on the subject) is "potential" revenue our industry misses out upon and not necessarily the player represented in an uploaded video. Though, it would be nice to financially compensate players.

The original message from CrazyErica does not mention to the slightest of degree that YouTube is bad for pool. Nor does it campaign a boycott of YouTube by the billiard industry.

The point that many seem to miss because of a negative disposition by many in the troll world, is YouTube has amassed hundreds of thousands of billiard videos by no fault of anyone directly. With simple arithmetic, landing on a figure of missed revenue, is quite large. Large enough to take notice.

It's been fun! Back to work.

Erica's first message in this thread specifically called out the lost revenue to players. You claim that the money should go to 'the industry' and it would be nice to give to players as well? Maybe i'm misinterpreting your two messages, but they seem to be different.

 

[Blue Jam]

If you just follow the hints, leads, and do math you end up with a figure in the millions. Heck, take the net worth of the business, and divide the percentage of billiards videos versus all of YouTube's content, and then take 10% of that, and you're still over $500k.

To let bygones be bygones here, the fact of the matter is, even if the REAL # equated to $32k. $32k is better than the current disposition, WHICH IS ZERO.

Wow.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're demonstrating the naivety of a 3 minute old baby. The alternative is that you are so mentally limited that it's incredible you make it from day to day overcoming all the dangers of modern life. Like not swallowing your toothbrush or forgetting to breathe.

Because, and I mean this genuinely, if that's indicative of the level of effort you're putting into this venture I urge you to immediately cease all efforts to further your cause as you're likely to do more harm than good.

Free access to old matches online fosters participation in our hobby and promotes uptake of ppv streams (of which there are several very competent exponents currently operating with little self interest) where players actually can get paid.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

At one time, "What can we do to fix Pro Pool", threads were a common occurrence on the Main page. Maybe they still are.

I mean, the State of Pro Pool, what the Pros could do and what we can do has been Hashed and Rehashed for a long time.

The Pros believe that they are in a position to have everyone else do the work for them.
Been that way for some time now.

The rest of us, pretty much stopped giving a Shite some time ago. Like, we don't even have one Pool Hall left in our small city, and I am supposed to care about the state of Pro Pool elsewhere.

Most of us take our Game seriously enuff to some level or another. We have one, maybe two nights out a week for League. Then we have our own lives to contend with and come back to reality.

I am sure that many of us would like to fix our own lives in certain areas a bit. Save the Animals, the Environment and so on.

What it comes down to, and I can't profess to speak for all Players, but I believe that most of us just stopped giving a crap many moons ago.

 

[one stroke]

If you just follow the hints, leads, and do math you end up with a figure in the millions. Heck, take the net worth of the business, and divide the percentage of billiards videos versus all of YouTube's content, and then take 10% of that, and you're still over $500k.

To let bygones be bygones here, the fact of the matter is, even if the REAL # equated to $32k. $32k is better than the current disposition, WHICH IS ZERO.

Dam your not sharing with Ritchie are you ,, thier not rock stars they don't get royalties every time thier video is shown
Let's not forget everyone involved in the production should get paid also down to the commentators ,, now that I'm thinking about it we are looking at a stick of bubble gum


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[Black-Balled]

What Erica actualy is doing is biting the hand that feeds pro pool players


1

Reminds me more than a little, about the advice (don Mackey?) gave the pro players, when they were asked to sign tv contracts. He told them not to sign, they followed his advice, buddy hall missed a straight in combo and men's pool pays the same in 2016 as it did in 1976.

 

[Dockter]

First off you don't get paid per views ,, you get paid by viewers clicking on attached adds and watching them for atleast 30 seconds , you could have 50k views and no advertising clicks ,, so you make zero ,, when advertising gets clicked they pay YouTube who in return pay the poster
So let's say CSI has a advertisement with thier videos and the players now want a cut of that , this knocks down thier revenue in return has less money to put up in tournaments
So they decide why bother posting videos because it's not worth the hassle and pool gets less exposure ,, lose , lose

1

Actually there are several that get paid based on views. All it takes is being a managed channel.

What Goldy is failing to mention though when throwing out all those numbers are youtubers get no money for mobile views. Mobile views are from any smart phone or tablet so they only get paid for the people watching on their computer and this happens less and less today.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Actually there are several that get paid based on views. All it takes is being a managed channel.

What Goldy is failing to mention though when throwing out all those numbers are youtubers get no money for mobile views. Mobile views are from any smart phone or tablet so they only get paid for the people watching on their computer and this happens less and less today.

This is correct. Its not always paid per click, mine is also per view. It depends on the level of monetization you have on YouTube or choose. Inside Pool on YouTube has nearly 39,000,000 views over 42,500 subscribers so if all there videos have been monetized since they started then they vary well could have made anywhere form $150,000-$200,000.

Like I said before though if there is any background music which it seems there usually is in poolrooms we stream/film at then the video can't be monetized. I know this information from experience because its a PITA with the copyright stuff.

 

[jimM]

Erica is right on.

Erica is absolutely right. There isn't any other sport where players are broke and everyone else makes money. This has been my complaint for a long time. The problem isn't with you tube, the problem is that in a lot of tournament contracts, if you sign them, you sign away your rights and if you don't sign them, you can't play. So the players don't really have a choice.

Everyone who is looking down their nose at this post really just wants to have everything free. I don't think it is promoting pool, considering pool is on a slow slide downward even though technology and video availability are better than ever. So, you have to assume that the people who watch all these videos are already in pool and just want to learn or watch for free.

Let's get real. Only 5 to 10 American pool players have made over $50,000 in tournaments this year. If that were you, you wouldn't be so happy about everyone ripping you off for your talent. I've always realized that it takes much more time to become a professional pool player than almost any regular profession. How many doctors or lawyers are there after 8 years. How many professional pool players got there in 8 years.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[ElCorazonFrio]

Erica is absolutely right. There isn't any other sport where players are broke and everyone else makes money. This has been my complaint for a long time. The problem isn't with you tube, the problem is that in a lot of tournament contracts, if you sign them, you sign away your rights and if you don't sign them, you can't play. So the players don't really have a choice.

Everyone who is looking down their nose at this post really just wants to have everything free. I don't think it is promoting pool, considering pool is on a slow slide downward even though technology and video availability are better than ever. So, you have to assume that the people who watch all these videos are already in pool and just want to learn or watch for free.

Let's get real. Only 5 to 10 American pool players have made over $50,000 in tournaments this year. If that were you, you wouldn't be so happy about everyone ripping you off for your talent. I've always realized that it takes much more time to become a professional pool player than almost any regular profession. How many doctors or lawyers are there after 8 years. How many professional pool players got there in 8 years.

Thanks,
Jim

Laughable.

I make enough money that I don't expect anything for free, but I've never seen any pool broadcast worth me paying for.

Let me enlighten you: I am a mechanical engineer. My degree should have taken four years of university (it took longer due to illness, depression and a personal journey). That is a very small portion of the time that I spent becoming a mechanical engineer.

I knew what I wanted to do before I knew there was a name for it. I worked hard in school from the time I was in 4th grade and taught myself chapters of the math books that we didn't get to. I spent my spare time taking things apart and putting them back together.

When I was in HS, I took advanced placement classes, I never missed a day of school. I built things, I worked on my vehicle, I built bikes, built trailers, houses, cars with my dad.

My point is that it would take a few years to get a BSME, but I spent 20years becoming an engineer because I want to be the best engineer I can.

So eff off with your 'it takes more to be a pro pool player than a doctor'. This is the absolute stupidest thing I have ever read.

 

[alstl]

Erica is absolutely right. There isn't any other sport where players are broke and everyone else makes money. This has been my complaint for a long time. The problem isn't with you tube, the problem is that in a lot of tournament contracts, if you sign them, you sign away your rights and if you don't sign them, you can't play. So the players don't really have a choice.

Everyone who is looking down their nose at this post really just wants to have everything free. I don't think it is promoting pool, considering pool is on a slow slide downward even though technology and video availability are better than ever. So, you have to assume that the people who watch all these videos are already in pool and just want to learn or watch for free.

Let's get real. Only 5 to 10 American pool players have made over $50,000 in tournaments this year. If that were you, you wouldn't be so happy about everyone ripping you off for your talent. I've always realized that it takes much more time to become a professional pool player than almost any regular profession. How many doctors or lawyers are there after 8 years. How many professional pool players got there in 8 years.

Thanks,
Jim

There are a lot of sports where the players don't have any money. Even in the sports where some of the players make money like the NFL, NBA and MLB there are far more who never make any money. Other sports like freestyle and greco roman wrestling, distance running, swimming, track and field, etc the "players" are worse off than pool players. At least the pool players have local tournaments to make money in.

 

[SamLambert]

So eff off with your 'it takes more to be a pro pool player than a doctor'. This is the absolute stupidest thing I have ever read.

Don't you know? You must be born with the planets aligning in the shape of a triangle, blood of a thousand hall of famers poured on your face and must dedicate yourself 27 hours per day beginning at the age of 6 months to merely have a chance of maybe becoming a local pro, otherwise you will only become a worthless shortstop and you might aswell jump off a bridge.

 

[West Point 1987]

You have to follow the money...

I take any proposal with a huge grain of salt whereby it's supposedly "for the players" yet the business plan is really an effort to monopolize some commodity (in this case, videos shot and paid for by others and posted/purloined onto YouTube) that benefits them as well (if not first). Let's say you could pull this off. All that will guarantee is those videos will be seen by practically no one, especially since they'll just end up in other online posts/services, like Ustream or Vimeo or whatever.

If players are to be paid more for their time/effort, they should unionize. That would take most if not all of the top players to agree, form a board and get on with it (wait, they tried that already). The other part (and to some extent why the previous attempt failed) is what constitutes a "pro"? Says who? What's to stop legions of AA and Shortstop/Open players from filling the field left open by unionized players who boycott events?

Pool isn't now nor never has been a "vocation"; it's an "avocation" whereby a handful of folks MIGHT earn some money here and there. There's no absolute governing body to regulate it, no guaranteed revenue stream, nothing for investors to grab their interest and money. If you want to scuffle around on the road gambling, that makes you a gambler; and by definition that's risky, no matter how good you play. If you forego education and job opportunities to chase a dream of being a pro in a profession that really doesn't exist, then complain about making minimum wage working the pool room's kitchen or bar, don't compare that with building a career in an actual, established profession. Doctors and Lawyers make great money...and they worked VERY hard for MANY years to get there. I've spent a few years playing pool 6 or more hours every day running around hitting every nickel and dime tournament or chasing action...and I spent 4 years in college and three years in graduate school getting various degrees (as well as 27 years in the Army). Give you one guess which was harder. Same answer for which put food on the table, bought the house that table sits in and new Diamond ProAm in the garage. (Hint: it wasn't pool.)

 

[DaveK]

Hey Dave buddy, where's a good place to stay for the westerns?

For you James my friend :

Four Points by Sheraton Saskatoon
Hampton Inn Saskatoon South

These would be the closest. And after the significant winter storm we had last year during westerns they might be the best choice

Terry, text me when you have plans. I am not playing this year but would love to come by for a pop or two. James, I'll PM my # so we can include you in the arrangement :thumbup:

And so this less of a hijack (although that may be the best thing for this particular thread ), I will check back with this in a year and see where it's at ... talk is cheap and that's what all this seems now.

Dave

 

[Drop The Rock]

Don't you know? You must be born with the planets aligning in the shape of a triangle, blood of a thousand hall of famers poured on your face and must dedicate yourself 27 hours per day beginning at the age of 6 months to merely have a chance of maybe becoming a local pro, otherwise you will only become a worthless shortstop and you might aswell jump off a bridge.

My buddy El isn't saying becoming a pro pool player is easy, just that its not has hard becoming a Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer. It takes a different type of person to apply yourself scholastically. It also takes a different type of person to approach pool with discipline. I bet you being a good parent is harder than pro pool too. It just depends on what you mean by "hard." Everyone has a ceiling. Just like I won't ever be a mechanical or electrical engineer, so people just won't be pro pool players. There are some people who couldn't sell water in the Sahara even you gave them a billboard. I play pool, golf, do sales and business development for an oil field tech company and I'm a father and husband.

Most everybody plays pool, some people play like champs, but there are only a handful of pool players. I play golf and am not a golfer either. I am however, a salesman and entrepreneur, a father and husband.