Gold Crown IV Cushions/Replacements

[Kickin' Chicken]

Your table is old and the wood is cut at a different angle from the factory that is not compatable with modern super speed cushions.

A GC4 should work fine with the currently available SS cushions, without any adjustment necessary.

I don't have first hand knowledge of the GC rails manufacture, but I would imagine they are cut in long lengths on a huge wood shaper, that cuts the final profile in one setup. Then cut to length for each rail segment. That type of manufacturing process should lead to extremely consistent rails both within each table, and from table to table. That's the same way wood molding is made. If you get the cheap ass wood molding from home depot for 99 cents, it will still match extremely well from piece to piece. I just can't imagine Brunswick would not know how to make the wood rails on their tables match.

If they don't match for some reason, I think something else is going on. I'd have to see it to believe it, frankly.

Its one thing to do a 50 yr old table where the modern rubber does not fit. Its another thing to cut the wood on a modern GC4 or GC5. I personally think its correcting a "problem" that does not exist.

sounds good in theory but it overlooks the fact that the currently available Superspeed cushions which are now made in China get hard spots in approx 12 months. It has happened to me twice.

I posted about this previously and there were a number of others who chimed in saying they have experienced the same problem.

It reminds me of how when I go to home depot and get anywhere near the garden hose or replacement lawn tractor tire aisles, there is a toxic stench in the air from these products.

Makes me wonder where are they sourcing the rubber they use, Chernobyl?

If I have a choice of getting rubber rail cushions mfg'd either in China or Germany, I will choose Germany 100% of the time.

Unfortunately, the wonderful Brunswick cushions from long ago are no longer available.

best,
brian kc

 

[jasonlaus]

sounds good in theory but it overlooks the fact that the currently available Superspeed cushions which are now made in China get hard spots in approx 12 months. It has happened to me twice.

I posted about this previously and there were a number of others who chimed in saying they have experienced the same problem.

It reminds me of how when I go to home depot and get anywhere near the garden hose or replacement lawn tractor tire aisles, there is a toxic stench in the air from these products.

Makes me wonder where are they sourcing the rubber they use, Chernobyl?

If I have a choice of getting rubber rail cushions mfg'd either in China or Germany, I will choose Germany 100% of the time.

Unfortunately, the wonderful Brunswick cushions from long ago are no longer available.

best,
brian kc

You can't smell radiation:thumbup:

 

[Floppage]

Get Mark Gregory to re-do your rails. You won't be disappointed.

I couldn't agree with this more. He made new rails for my Anniversary and they are absolutely amazing. I am also very happy with his communication during the process. There were a couple of delays but he stayed in touch the whole time. Very professional!

 

[His Boy Elroy]

I had Jerimy Chambers install Artemis Intercontinental cushions and perform the subrail modifications necessary in order to have my GC IV converted to pro-cut pocket dimensions. I could not be happier with the table.

Jerimy operates out of Chicago (so not sure how close that is to you), but I would highly recommend him.

Two springs ago I bought a used GC4 and had it delivered un - assembled to my basement. Jerimy Chambers showed up, took the rails back to the shop,and came back with their sub - rails extended.

He installed whatever the Artemis cushions are that are installed in Diamonds, ( I'm not big on numbers) reduced the pocket size from 5" to 4 - 3/8," and installed Simonis HR. (Is that right? I'm not big on letters) He charged $200 for the set - up, and $1200 for the rest.

I'm not much of a conversationalist. A minute after he showed up, I told him I'd be upstairs and he should just yell if he wanted anything. He yelled 2 hours and 45 minutes later. I went down there and the table was completely set up.........I love everything about it. There's simply nothing I would want changed one bit!

 

[JoeyInCali]

I couldn't agree with this more. He made new rails for my Anniversary and they are absolutely amazing. I am also very happy with his communication during the process. There were a couple of delays but he stayed in touch the whole time. Very professional!

And Mark will surely implore everyone to use Super Speed b/c it banks more naturally.

 

[realkingcobra]

Your table is old and the wood is cut at a different angle from the factory that is not compatable with modern super speed cushions.

A GC4 should work fine with the currently available SS cushions, without any adjustment necessary.

I don't have first hand knowledge of the GC rails manufacture, but I would imagine they are cut in long lengths on a huge wood shaper, that cuts the final profile in one setup. Then cut to length for each rail segment. That type of manufacturing process should lead to extremely consistent rails both within each table, and from table to table. That's the same way wood molding is made. If you get the cheap ass wood molding from home depot for 99 cents, it will still match extremely well from piece to piece. I just can't imagine Brunswick would not know how to make the wood rails on their tables match.

If they don't match for some reason, I think something else is going on. I'd have to see it to believe it, frankly.

Its one thing to do a 50 yr old table where the modern rubber does not fit. Its another thing to cut the wood on a modern GC4 or GC5. I personally think its correcting a "problem" that does not exist.

They are wrong and inconsistent in production.

 

[realkingcobra]

And you being a Diamond shill, doesn't change the fact that Artemis rails suck on a pool table, big time.

Yeah...and you're an expert when it comes to how pool tables play right people would have to be out of their minds to listen to anything you have to say

 

[realkingcobra]

Your table is old and the wood is cut at a different angle from the factory that is not compatable with modern super speed cushions.

A GC4 should work fine with the currently available SS cushions, without any adjustment necessary.

I don't have first hand knowledge of the GC rails manufacture, but I would imagine they are cut in long lengths on a huge wood shaper, that cuts the final profile in one setup. Then cut to length for each rail segment. That type of manufacturing process should lead to extremely consistent rails both within each table, and from table to table. That's the same way wood molding is made. If you get the cheap ass wood molding from home depot for 99 cents, it will still match extremely well from piece to piece. I just can't imagine Brunswick would not know how to make the wood rails on their tables match.

If they don't match for some reason, I think something else is going on. I'd have to see it to believe it, frankly.

Its one thing to do a 50 yr old table where the modern rubber does not fit. Its another thing to cut the wood on a modern GC4 or GC5. I personally think its correcting a "problem" that does not exist.

The rails on the 4's and 5's all vary in thickness, which changes the nose height from one rail to the next....fact! Just like with all the rest of the Gold Crowns built.

 

[iusedtoberich]

They are wrong and inconsistent in production.

Next time you do a modern GC4 or GC5 (that still has its factory edges on the rails), please show us how inconsistent the rails are on the table.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Yeah...and you're an expert when it comes to how pool tables play right people would have to be out of their minds to listen to anything you have to say

We all know you are a Diamond super supporter... and obviously Superstar does not like how they bounce....

Your comment earlier in the thread that Diamond is selling a ton of tables, well, think of it another way. If Diamond cushions played like a GC, they might have sold TWICE as many tables. The cushions on the Diamonds have been the number 1 complaint of players since Dimaond tables came into existence. Even with today's blue label variation, there is still a ton of players who think they bounce like pin ball machines.

Players do not complain about GC cushions (unless they are rotted away).

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Yeah...and you're an expert when it comes to how pool tables play right people would have to be out of their minds to listen to anything you have to say

There are plenty of professionals who hate diamonds.
Where is that video of Archer going off about diamonds again?
Oh that's right. His opinion doesn't matter. He was just player of the F-ing decade.

But don't mind him.
His opinion as a professional player is nothing when compared to a diamond shill table mechanic.

Deep slate shelves = stupid. Let's make it so that if you get it past the hole, it still doesn't go sometimes.
A real genius rocket scientist came up with that turd of an idea.

3cushion billiards rails on a pool table = stupid.
And you would think that before releasing the tables to the public, they would have done some testing of their product and figured out...you know, these rails are blasting these balls straight up into the air on bank shots, and flying by people's faces on short straight back banks.
Maybe we should do something about that before we go public with them.
But no. What do they do?

Let's have a big ass tournament to show off our product, and let the world see exactly how bad we f-ed up.
It's all about adjusting anyway. They have no choice.
If the pros want some of this money, they'll just suck it up and shut up.
Wait a sec. What do you mean? You blast a ball in the hole, it hits the bottom of the pocket and flies right back up out of the pocket and off the table? Really?
Good gosh darn. We didn't know that. We didn't figure out that problem during testing.

But wait. Don't take my opinion about it.
My opinion sucks apparently.
But what about the other couple of hundred players playing at the derby way back who were complaining about diamonds?
Oh that's right. They were also a bunch of nobody's.
No champions in that bunch either.

Oh, I get it.
THEY WERE GUINEA PIGS CAUSE DIAMOND HAD NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE DOING!
Another genius idea. Put on a tournament, we'll use the players as guinea pigs to get some feedback.
Who cares who suffers any financial losses cause our tables sucked so bad back then.
Nice.

Get a grip already.
No one says anything because Diamond sponsors a lot of stuff and pool players are broke enough as it is.

Seem to remember that Sardo also dumped some money into pool and people kept right on using their product even though it was a total sham/piece of junk.

I will give Diamond mad props for doing something for pool.
You can never take that away from them.
But their rails suck. Period.

 

[realkingcobra]

There are plenty of professionals who hate diamonds.
Where is that video of Archer going off about diamonds again?
Oh that's right. His opinion doesn't matter. He was just player of the F-ing decade.

But don't mind him.
His opinion as a professional player is nothing when compared to a diamond shill table mechanic.

Deep slate shelves = stupid. Let's make it so that if you get it past the hole, it still doesn't go sometimes.
A real genius rocket scientist came up with that turd of an idea.

3cushion billiards rails on a pool table = stupid.
And you would think that before releasing the tables to the public, they would have done some testing of their product and figured out...you know, these rails are blasting these balls straight up into the air on bank shots, and flying by people's faces on short straight back banks.
Maybe we should do something about that before we go public with them.
But no. What do they do?

Let's have a big ass tournament to show off our product, and let the world see exactly how bad we f-ed up.
It's all about adjusting anyway. They have no choice.
If the pros want some of this money, they'll just suck it up and shut up.
Wait a sec. What do you mean? You blast a ball in the hole, it hits the bottom of the pocket and flies right back up out of the pocket and off the table? Really?
Good gosh darn. We didn't know that. We didn't figure out that problem during testing.

But wait. Don't take my opinion about it.
My opinion sucks apparently.
But what about the other couple of hundred players playing at the derby way back who were complaining about diamonds?
Oh that's right. They were also a bunch of nobody's.
No champions in that bunch either.

Oh, I get it.
THEY WERE GUINEA PIGS CAUSE DIAMOND HAD NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE DOING!
Another genius idea. Put on a tournament, we'll use the players as guinea pigs to get some feedback.
Who cares who suffers any financial losses cause our tables sucked so bad back then.
Nice.

Get a grip already.
No one says anything because Diamond sponsors a lot of stuff and pool players are broke enough as it is.

Seem to remember that Sardo also dumped some money into pool and people kept right on using their product even though it was a total sham/piece of junk.

I will give Diamond mad props for doing something for pool.
You can never take that away from them.
But their rails suck. Period.

Just like I said, you don't know shit. And what 9ft billiard table are you talking about that is a converted pool table? Another stupid remark on your part...Diamonds 9ft STRAIGHT RAIL BILLIARD table is a full fledged billiard table! They also come in 7ft, 8ft and 10ft, not just a 9ft.....but, you're a nobody, that's why you talk the shit you talk...by the way, what about that Diamond 9ft in Archers pool room????

 

[realkingcobra]

We all know you are a Diamond super supporter... and obviously Superstar does not like how they bounce....

Your comment earlier in the thread that Diamond is selling a ton of tables, well, think of it another way. If Diamond cushions played like a GC, they might have sold TWICE as many tables. The cushions on the Diamonds have been the number 1 complaint of players since Dimaond tables came into existence. Even with today's blue label variation, there is still a ton of players who think they bounce like pin ball machines.

Players do not complain about GC cushions (unless they are rotted away).

Wow, another expert....tell me something will you, since you're such an expert....how many Gold Crowns are being sold today by Brunswick? Tell me something else, why can't Brunswick keep their rails the same thickness in sets...they can vary by 1/16" of an inch from one model to another....and forget getting pocket angles being the same from one corner to the next...that's a joke!!!

 

[Tony_in_MD]

I went through the exact same thing on my GCII. replaced the original superseeds with superseeds of course.

Quality of those cushions are questionable. Had RCK come and redo my table with Artemis IC, and I have a table that plays better than any GCII I have played on.

If you want to be dissatisfied in a few years when the rails go to crap, by all means stick with superspeed cushions.

p.s. about trusting the factory calibration of the rails, that is a joke. My rails were wavy without uniform height, and pocket angles, every pocket angle was different on my table before it was fixed.

Anyone think that does't affect play?

I had orig superspeed cushions on my 1961 GC that finally needed to be changed 7 or 8 yrs ago. Of course, got new superspeeds, makes sense, right?

Unfortunately, the new superspeeds aint what they once were. within a year the new superspeeds developed hard spots, I'm sure due to crappy quality control now that they are being made in China.

When RKC was coming to restore my GC he suggested the Artemis Intercontinental cushions and I couldn't be happier with the result. German high quality standards vs Chinese, not even close.

I have also heard that the black cushions from Diamond worked well and were a bit cheaper, not sure if those are still avail.

I would def recommend against brunswick superspeeds.

best,
brian kc

 

[Bank it]

We all know you are a Diamond super supporter... and obviously Superstar does not like how they bounce....



Your comment earlier in the thread that Diamond is selling a ton of tables, well, think of it another way. If Diamond cushions played like a GC, they might have sold TWICE as many tables. The cushions on the Diamonds have been the number 1 complaint of players since Dimaond tables came into existence. Even with today's blue label variation, there is still a ton of players who think they bounce like pin ball machines.



Players do not complain about GC cushions (unless they are rotted away).

Indeed my man, indeed

 

[deanoc]

my opinion is keep the gold crown the way it is

nothing plays as good as a gold crown for me,if you want smaller pockets trade with someone who has them

best wishes
dean

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Just like I said, you don't know shit. And what 9ft billiard table are you talking about that is a converted pool table? Another stupid remark on your part...Diamonds 9ft STRAIGHT RAIL BILLIARD table is a full fledged billiard table! They also come in 7ft, 8ft and 10ft, not just a 9ft.....but, you're a nobody, that's why you talk the shit you talk...by the way, what about that Diamond 9ft in Archers pool room????

Just cause Diamond makes it, doesn't mean it's great.
But apparently, you get on your knees and worship all things Diamond.
That's great.
Not everyone is like that.
Takes a very special person to get down on their knees and worship something.

So what if Archer has a Diamond table in his room.
So what if he has 10?
We all know plenty of pool room owners who are only interested in generating money.

Lots of times, that means putting in equipment that is durable that kids can beat the crap out of (dymondwood is tough stuff) and not changing the cloth until it is absolutely on its last legs to cut down on costs.
It's about generating profits from bangers.

Doesn't mean it's his prefered table and that he worships it cause it's a Diamond.

Diamond ain't the be all to end all of pool.

Maybe if they weren't so damn stubborn trying to stick a square peg through a round hole with their "innovations" and stuck to some of the tired and true standards of the game. (THE RAILS/NORMAL POCKET SLATE LEDGE) they WOULD be the be all to end all of pool tables.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Just cause Diamond makes it, doesn't mean it's great.
But apparently, you get on your knees and worship all things Diamond.
That's great.
Not everyone is like that.
Takes a very special person to get down on their knees and worship something.

So what if Archer has a Diamond table in his room.
So what if he has 10?
We all know plenty of pool room owners who are only interested in generating money.

Lots of times, that means putting in equipment that is durable that kids can beat the crap out of (dymondwood is tough stuff) and not changing the cloth until it is absolutely on its last legs to cut down on costs.
It's about generating profits from bangers.

Doesn't mean it's his prefered table and that he worships it cause it's a Diamond.

Diamond ain't the be all to end all of pool.

Maybe if they weren't so damn stubborn trying to stick a square peg through a round hole with their "innovations" and stuck to some of the tired and true standards of the game. (THE RAILS/NORMAL POCKET SLATE LEDGE) they WOULD be the be all to end all of pool tables.

not looking to stir anything up but, actually, the Diamond at JA's room in Marietta is their "pro" table, number one when you walk in the door and not for general public's use.

best,
brian kc

 

[realkingcobra]

Just cause Diamond makes it, doesn't mean it's great that's why your opinion doesn't matter to anybody.
But apparently, you get on your knees and worship all things Diamond.
That's great.
Not everyone is like that.
Takes a very special person to get down on their knees and worship something.

So what if Archer has a Diamond table in his room.
So what if he has 10?
We all know plenty of pool room owners who are only interested in generating money.

Lots of times, that means putting in equipment that is durable that kids can beat the crap out of (dymondwood is tough stuff) and not changing the cloth until it is absolutely on its last legs to cut down on costs.
It's about generating profits from bangers.

Doesn't mean it's his prefered table and that he worships it cause it's a Diamond.

Diamond ain't the be all to end all of pool.

Maybe if they weren't so damn stubborn trying to stick a square peg through a round hole with their "innovations" and stuck to some of the tired and true standards of the game. (THE RAILS/NORMAL POCKET SLATE LEDGE) they WOULD be the be all to end all of pool tables.

People like you are a dime a dozen that's why your opinion doesn't matter to anyone. If the cushion's were such a problem on Diamond tables, then why wouldn't they be a problem on Gold Crowns? There's plenty of posters that have voiced their opinions on how their Gold Crowns play with the same cushions Diamond uses....and not one had a complaint. Doesn't is say something when you're the only one doing the complaining, grow up!!

 

[realkingcobra]

usedtoberich;5403627]We all know you are a Diamond super supporter... and obviously Superstar does not like how they bounce....

Your comment earlier in the thread that Diamond is selling a ton of tables, well, think of it another way. If Diamond cushions played like a GC, they might have sold TWICE as many tables. The cushions on the Diamonds have been the number 1 complaint of players since Dimaond tables came into existence. Even with today's blue label variation, there is still a ton of players who think they bounce like pin ball machines.

Players do not complain about GC cushions (unless they are rotted away).[/QUOTE]

God forbid that anyone other than Brunswick build a commercial pool table and continue to develop it to be better and better all the time. Where is Brunswick when YOU need them so badly today...to stop Diamond from taking over this industry!!! Instead of complaining about Diamond, why are you not writing scathing letters to Brunswick about the Gold Crowns being built with inconsistent pocket angles, and rails that vary in thickness which effects the nose height from one rail to the next....or about their lack of production today??