Should there be full disclosure in PPV matches?

[EL'nino]

I appreciate the kind words but my days of matches are probably over. I still care a lot about the format. I think it will be what little future the pro game has in this country.

You are exactly the kind of customer/fan I am talking about. If guys like you go away its brutal. The core has to be taken care of and respected. I don't blame you for being saddened. If I bet on Ko and found out he was in talks to play for his opponents backer during the match I would be out of my tree. Even if everything was on the up and up its such bad form as to be insulting.

"probably over" So you are thinking about bringing the greatest product in pool history back?

 

[JCIN]

"probably over" So you are thinking about bringing the greatest product in pool history back?

No plans to do any matches but never say never.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I didnt watch the Ko/Dennis match but I paid attention to social media and the forums and I saw something that made me just shake my head. John French is backing Dennis and right after the match is over announces he will be staking the Ko brothers. I have read that he talked about it during the match on the last day. I find it hard to believe something like this would be put together on short notice which means there were talks before the match happened.

Things like this will absolutely ruin the man on man format. I don't do matches anymore so it won't hurt me at all but it will kill any momentum one on one PPV's have. I know of many matches where the money is not what people say it is (and that is bad enough) but this is different.

People bet real money on these matches. The matches are marketed to fans as one thing. If there is any chance at all of them being something different that must be disclosed. To do any different is short sighted and stupid. The PPV audience is tiny and a good percentage is made up of people who bet. Just the appearance of a match being a show only is deadly to the entire format. If a match is an exhibition it should be called that, if both players are to be paid with the winner getting more it should say that and if it is true action then whatever number is announced in the middle should be there. If someone comes up short at post and the bet is adjusted that should be made known. No shame in that.

I don't know John French. He could be a great guy. But this mess with recruiting the same player you are telling the world you are betting against and doing it before/during the match is just nuts. Its like the Broncos playing the Cowboys and when the game is over Jerry Jones announces that Peyton Manning has been traded to the Cowboys and the papers were signed at half time. Even if everything is 100% in the match how can people not question it?

Am I wrong on thinking this way? I spent years fading all kinds of terrible situations and being crystal clear to customers on what was actually going down. Many times at cost to me and my partners. I dont do matches anymore but feel I had a big part in getting the format started. It bothers me to see things that will kill it. I think buyers should know what they are buying. What say the hive?

I think you are 100% correct. The whole point is to generate involvement by fans an sweaters. Let's face it...people want to gamble on a match like this. I think everything should be done to set the match up the way it should be beforehand, and NOT CHANGE IT. Of course the old "shit happens" motto often applies. The thing is, "shit happens" isn't professional. It is not a condition to be embraced, rather something to be actively and determinedly avoided. It would be nice if there were contracts signed, money escrow'ed, etc. BEFORE the thing is even announced. Of rather, before it is "officially" announced. You know, like once they say "we have a bet", its locked in. It would be nice if this type of idea could be made the "norm", but I don't see that happening soon.

KMRUNOUT

 

[spktur]

If all the PPV betters betting and stopped buying the events...could maybe wake streamers up? Johnnyt

I'm just curious, Johnnyt do you bet the matches? Or are you just negative on everything that comes down the pike? I don't care anything about gambling on them but I do enjoy watching a good top level match. All this bad mouthing the people who promote and stake these matches just continues to kill the chance to watch a couple of top level players go at it.

 

[pwd72s]

It's my belief that any game people play can be, has been, and will be rigged. Anybody placing bets on an outcome should be aware of that.

 

[cleary]

French loved the Ko brothers enough to sign them, so Dennis had to be Superman in order to beat Big Ko.

I love that French is "signing" players lol is he Nike??

 

[djg576]

I didnt watch the Ko/Dennis match but I paid attention to social media and the forums and I saw something that made me just shake my head. John French is backing Dennis and right after the match is over announces he will be staking the Ko brothers. I have read that he talked about it during the match on the last day. I find it hard to believe something like this would be put together on short notice which means there were talks before the match happened.

Things like this will absolutely ruin the man on man format. I don't do matches anymore so it won't hurt me at all but it will kill any momentum one on one PPV's have. I know of many matches where the money is not what people say it is (and that is bad enough) but this is different.

People bet real money on these matches. The matches are marketed to fans as one thing. If there is any chance at all of them being something different that must be disclosed. To do any different is short sighted and stupid. The PPV audience is tiny and a good percentage is made up of people who bet. Just the appearance of a match being a show only is deadly to the entire format. If a match is an exhibition it should be called that, if both players are to be paid with the winner getting more it should say that and if it is true action then whatever number is announced in the middle should be there. If someone comes up short at post and the bet is adjusted that should be made known. No shame in that.

I don't know John French. He could be a great guy. But this mess with recruiting the same player you are telling the world you are betting against and doing it before/during the match is just nuts. Its like the Broncos playing the Cowboys and when the game is over Jerry Jones announces that Peyton Manning has been traded to the Cowboys and the papers were signed at half time. Even if everything is 100% in the match how can people not question it?

Am I wrong on thinking this way? I spent years fading all kinds of terrible situations and being crystal clear to customers on what was actually going down. Many times at cost to me and my partners. I dont do matches anymore but feel I had a big part in getting the format started. It bothers me to see things that will kill it. I think buyers should know what they are buying. What say the hive?

Hive says this: after falling asleep in the first two days, I made myself stay up long enough to see the finish. When I woke up all bright eyed and bushy tailed, I realized two things. One, if John French belongs in the commentators booth, then my middle aged fat ass deserves an invite to this seasons Dancing With the Stars, and two I'm glad I didn't bet this match cause I would have lost and been a little pissed about the
outcome.
Of course I appreciate the exhibition if that's what it was, but like you said, some people bet it thinking different. Good luck in future endeavors Justin. JG

 

[Get_A_Grip]

I love that French is "signing" players lol is he Nike??

My understanding is that he IS signing contracts with players. Maybe someone else can clarify the specifics.

 

[pt109]

I think people should make it clear they just want the truth about what is being sold. I didnt see one bit of difference selling a $4000 match and a $20,000 match. The PPV numbers were the same. Side bets were the same.

Promoters should know that they are not going to gain more buyers by hyping the money but they will certainly lose them by not providing full disclosure about whats really going on.

I don't want anyone to boycott anything as thats almost always a bullshit response to a problem. I just think an open discussion on what people expect should be had.

"probably over" So you are thinking about bringing the greatest product in pool history back?

No plans to do any matches but never say never.

The game not only misses you, Justin, it also NEEDS you....
...your rep is first rate.

The action forum ain't gonna like it til you come back.

 

[Joe_Jaguar]

My understanding is that he IS signing contracts with players. Maybe someone else can clarify the specifics.

What in the world could a contract in pool possibly entail?

 

[Get_A_Grip]

What in the world could a contract in pool possibly entail?

Only I guess, but I would think:
1) Length of time that French would be sponsoring them
2) Specifics on what type of benefits the players will get
3) Percentage of split of any proceeds earned

Others?

 

[cleary]

My understanding is that he IS signing contracts with players. Maybe someone else can clarify the specifics.

I know, I saw that on Facebook. I just think it's funny.

 

[Nick B]

I appreciate the kind words but my days of matches are probably over. I still care a lot about the format. I think it will be what little future the pro game has in this country.

You are exactly the kind of customer/fan I am talking about. If guys like you go away its brutal. The core has to be taken care of and respected. I don't blame you for being saddened. If I bet on Ko and found out he was in talks to play for his opponents backer during the match I would be out of my tree. Even if everything was on the up and up its such bad form as to be insulting.

I think I bought 97% of all TAR matches or came and saw them live. One day of this gong show put me on tilt. Between the commentating, French and just overall quality and I was done. One of the smartest things you did was going to conventional size pockets. After watching guys like Morra and Oscar struggle having 9 hours days was not in the best interest of the event.

JCIN please reconsider. Do it in a hall (keeps the monthly nut down) and only super premium matches (say 4 a year). In the words of Howard Stern...No more Bull Zhit.

 

[GoldenFlash]

It's my belief that any game people play can be, has been, and will be rigged. Anybody placing bets on an outcome should be aware of that.

Now that sounds like someone with a good sense of reality! :yes:

 

[SUPERSTAR]

This is why the only matches I bet on in pool, are the ones I am personally playing in.
Because I don't believe what anyone says.
If they say the match is being played for 10k a man, to me, that's a match for $500. Lol

 

[BeiberLvr]

Now that I think about it, Ko was smiling a lot after the match.


When's the last time anyone here saw a pool player lose a long match for $20k, and have a smile on their face immediately afterwards?

 

[raise1]

Justin, you need to get back in the streaming.

 

[cardiac kid]

What in the world could a contract in pool possibly entail?

Joe,

Ask the pro players who signed performance contracts with Bogus Ball.

Lyn

 

[Mark Griffin]

Ppv

I totally agree there has to be total disclosure. TAR never exaggerated what the players were playing for.

Everything has to be on the 'up and up'.

This event wasn't. People made good faith side bets and are now unsure of the integrity of the event. You know, this is basic promoting 101.

Mark Griffin

 

[wutang]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y-pdLyZPJ8


:grin-square: