Did Ortmann foul? Bustamante says Yes!
- Thread starter Magog30
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During execution of the shot....Because of the way the six ball came out, and the speed of it, had to be a good hit, split hit but a good hit.
True, but it wasn't Bustamante's responsibility to alert the ref, as it would have been had there been no ref presiding over the match.
It's a clear foul with no need to slow frames down to see which moves first. The cue ball could not hit the 13 first then the 6 and head in the direction it did, it would have went towards the 6 and probably stopped dead judging by the angles I seen it from.
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How does the cue ball move in the direction it did -- directly away from the path of the six ball -- if it hit the six last?
Ortman appears to be explaining that the object ball would've went into the other side of the pocket, if not missing completely to the right of pocket, it was a bad hit. That's a close one for sure.
Great link...thanks!
Try to imagine the situation in your head, you cannot hit the 13 first on the left side with left english to make the CB go the the right after hitting the 6. It's just physically impossible.
I would also say focus on the 6 and not the 13 in the slow mo and you can see it's a bad hit. Trying to watch both is deceptive with the dark edge of the 6 ball.
I was also lucky enough to manage to stop the video at the precise right time (twice) where the cue ball does contact the 6b first. You can see the 6b begin moving away *then* whitey contacts the stripe ball.
Extremely difficult to discern in real time, however, as has been stated numerous times, the path of the cue ball can settle whether there was a bad hit.
The ref, especially with replay avail, got this one wrong.
best,
brian kc <---- been involved in a few close calls where the cue ball's path helped to decide.
Extremely difficult to discern in real time, however, as has been stated numerous times, the path of the cue ball can settle whether there was a bad hit.
The ref, especially with replay avail, got this one wrong.
best,
brian kc <---- been involved in a few close calls where the cue ball's path helped to decide.
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Bob,
At the DCC, I heard there were one or two close or contested foul calls during the 14.1.
Are those on film? I'd be curious if they could be used a teaching moments to help us on tough calls.
Gideon
I would have given it to the shooter as "too close to call" but I see exactly what Bob pointed out, especially when you see the 9 was almost missed due to the billiard off the 6 ball. Looks like Oliver had rolled the cue ball further than intended coming off the 15, making this shot more difficult.
By the way, I am always nervous about my opponent calling a bad hit on these shots, even on an obviously good hit. As the shooter, generally you can sense the good/bad hit, but it's not always evident to your opponent. Bustamante knows his stuff.
By the way, I am always nervous about my opponent calling a bad hit on these shots, even on an obviously good hit. As the shooter, generally you can sense the good/bad hit, but it's not always evident to your opponent. Bustamante knows his stuff.
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I'll take a look....
Yep, ya can see/feel it in the slo mo....looks like he could of geared the six in. Foul :thumbup:
The two I'm aware of were in the Archer/Stepanov match and in the Schmidt/Stepanov match. I imagine the videos will eventually get posted. I think the call in the former was good but the call in the latter was bad. Fortunately the bad call seems not to have made a difference.
As others have mentioned, you can tell it's a foul by the path of the CB.
That out of the way, did anyone see the rest of the match? It was pretty entertaining.
1:38 - What is going on in Oliver's mind here? Why didn't he simply take an intentional foul and further tied up the 7, 14, and 8? He did the worst possible thing by breaking up the cluster and giving Django a clear shot.
1:40 - At hill-hill, Busti gets weird on the key ball. He has to shoot it all the way up table, and he hits it VERY rough. Yet, it someone manages to bobble in after hitting the rail about a diamond and a half before the pocket. Ortmann's reaction is hilarious.
1:41 - Busti is still pissed about the non-call, mostly at the ref. He really didn't want want to shake the ref's hand. Absolutely no smiles when he bobbled that last key ball. Pissed.
That out of the way, did anyone see the rest of the match? It was pretty entertaining.
1:38 - What is going on in Oliver's mind here? Why didn't he simply take an intentional foul and further tied up the 7, 14, and 8? He did the worst possible thing by breaking up the cluster and giving Django a clear shot.
1:40 - At hill-hill, Busti gets weird on the key ball. He has to shoot it all the way up table, and he hits it VERY rough. Yet, it someone manages to bobble in after hitting the rail about a diamond and a half before the pocket. Ortmann's reaction is hilarious.
1:41 - Busti is still pissed about the non-call, mostly at the ref. He really didn't want want to shake the ref's hand. Absolutely no smiles when he bobbled that last key ball. Pissed.
Reminds me of this some years ago
https://youtube.com/watch?v=8R8YuHAA-nQ&lc=Jtwr14mTth5HB3MHIWucpAy9Bp4ceSlL-v88SAG0qt8
https://youtube.com/watch?v=8R8YuHAA-nQ&lc=Jtwr14mTth5HB3MHIWucpAy9Bp4ceSlL-v88SAG0qt8
Bob, how did you get that video saved off of youtube? And did you save it at full speed, and then you slowed it down on your own software? Or did you save the youtube version at youtube's .25 speed and then you slowed it down further?
Here are some screen shots of before and after where the CB moved to, and also where the 6 hit the rail at.
In the screenshots above, I think its a foul also by the CB's final resting spot. That said, is the CB's final resting spot a bit to the right and a bit down (shooters perspective) from its ghost ball position? Wouldn't this be "close" to where it would also go on a legal hit?