Diamond Systems don't work on Diamond Tables

Jude Rosenstock said:
The problem is, there is no authority in pool powerful enough to dictate how rails should play. Even if the WPA said only a certain rail could be used, there would still be thousands of pool tournaments across the country that would simply use what's available and table manufacturers would comply if it were a good business decision to do so.

That said, competitors in many sports must endure changing environments. It's just par for the course. Runners think concrete is too hard. Baseball players think astroturf is too bouncy. Tennis players think grass isn't bouncy enough. Yet, some adapt. The best pool players are often very adaptable.
Click to expand...

Of course,the most skilled will always prevail. The skills needed will be different, however. In fact the game itself will be changed into something unrecognizable. I'm of the opinion that the game itself has an intrinsic value that is worth protecting. Guess I'm conservative like that. And no, I'm not a pro, so I do find it somewhat challenging to adapt, especially in tournaments with no warmup allowed. (We have those here).

Pool does have a governing body, it's just that it's a worthless hunk of sh..that does nothing but collect money. The American chapter is especially pathetic.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Of course,the most skilled will always prevail. The skills needed will be different, however. In fact the game itself will be changed into something unrecognizable. I'm of the opinion that the game itself has an intrinsic value that is worth protecting. Guess I'm conservative like that. And no, I'm not a pro, so I do find it somewhat challenging to adapt, especially in tournaments with no warmup allowed. (We have those here).

Pool does have a governing body, it's just that it's a worthless hunk of sh..that does nothing but collect money. The American chapter is especially pathetic.
Click to expand...

Fair point. In relation to jump cues, I've often argued that whether or not a new piece of equipment is better doesn't necessarily mean we should use it. In baseball, there is no argument that aluminum bats are better than wood but it's wood they use because of tradition. It's not unfathomable that one day, a device could be invented that performs better than a pool cue but will it still be pool after that?

All that said, I think there are changes happening in pool far worse than rail materials. My passion (read that as objections) lies there.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Of course,the most skilled will always prevail. The skills needed will be different, however. In fact the game itself will be changed into something unrecognizable. I'm of the opinion that the game itself has an intrinsic value that is worth protecting. Guess I'm conservative like that. And no, I'm not a pro, so I do find it somewhat challenging to adapt, especially in tournaments with no warmup allowed. (We have those here).

Pool does have a governing body, it's just that it's a worthless hunk of sh..that does nothing but collect money. The American chapter is especially pathetic.
Click to expand...

I feel your pain. However, the only thing that stays the same is change. Pool is not alone. Race cars are faster, golf balls fly farther. Athletes are bigger, stronger, faster. Baseball, football, basketball, and just about every other sport is played differently now then when they were invented.

It doesn't take away any of the accomplishments from the past, nor does it tarnish the accomplishments of the future. You can never compare the past to the present, or future. You can only define who is the best of their own time. You can choose to accept it, or watch the world pass you by.
 
Flip_dat_Quarta said:
How many times have you taken the time to do the math for a 3 rail kick only to find out that you missed by a whole diamond because you were playing on a Diamond table? It's frustrating and makes you just want to go off feel next time. Is it really that hard to create an adjustment factor for diamonds??

With diamond tables being the preferred tables to play on it's kind of stupid to have all of the systems based off some other type of table with loose rails.

Someone needs to take all of the 2 and 3 railing kicking/banking systems and reconfigure them so that they actually work on diamond tables(tight rails).

Since two and three rail kicks don't come up that often it's hard enough to remember the system when you need to but it's even harder to try to figure out how much you should adjust from the system to account for the tight rails.

And yes, every table is going to play different based on various conditions but most diamond tables I've played on have been pretty consistent so I think they need their own baseline systems. If you need to adjust from there you can based on humidity or whatever.
Click to expand...

"Diamond Systems don't work on Diamond Tables"
.........................................................................................

What a shock.

Dale
 
The Efren system!

I have several DVD's showing banking and kicking systems. My old brain has trouble remembering it all though I do believe there is some useful information in the DVD's.

I wonder how many top tier pro players apply a diamond, Zero X or any other system in a match. It's not like I see any of them potting a high percentage of their balls when they are kicking at them. So I believe the biggest gain with mastering any kicking/banking system is contacting the object ball to keep your opponent from getting ball in hand and a smaller gain is realized by making a higher percentage of bank shots if you are a lower level player.

I don't know what system Efren used in his prime, but I wish I could learn it. I'm betting the Magician just instinctively relied on years of experience and thousands of shots to aim the cue ball.
 
Last edited:
OP

You posted that you put the CB in the jaws and aim for the 3rd diamond and it's supposed to go to the other corner....

There in lies your problem. You are shooting at the wrong diamond..
The 3rd diamond down is for Billiards not pool. The CB is bigger in Billiards and henceforth, holds more english and goes wider..

Shoot at the 2nd diamond down and you will probably end up pretty close to the pocket on any table... High running english about medium speed should do it. :)

Btw, you won't be hitting the 2nd diamond with the cb, but shooting towards it. It actually hits well before it.
 
It's not like the OP doesn't have a point, everything on a Diamond is shorter. Almost none of the "systems" developed in the past work anymore since Diamond is taking over the world. The problem, and I think the point the OP was trying to make, is that we need a way to deal with that - new systems, standard adjustment, etc. Saying "hey man just don't even use a system and be naturally talented and awesome just cuz" isn't a solution.
 
Last edited:
A guy with a total of 12 posts who just joined a month ago starts a melt down because he can't kick and blames the table.

Another problem with diamond tables - there is no pocket where the ball hits which causes him to miss balls.
 
realkingcobra said:
So what are you going to do....quit playing pool, I'm sure we'll miss you around here:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

All I mentioned was that if Brunswick wanted to own pool, they could, and they could destroy Diamond in the process if they chose to do so.

People can prefer whatever table they want.
 
Flip_dat_Quarta said:
... Someone needs to take all of the 2 and 3 railing kicking/banking systems and reconfigure them so that they actually work on diamond tables(tight rails). ..
Click to expand...
There are already ways to adjust diamond systems for the table. Get Bob Byrne's books. Get the book by Tuzul which shows you which shots to test the table with to extract the system correction factors.

The Diamond tables I've played on have all been fine except for one that really needed new cloth.

In contrast, I used to play on a table by that other company on which the counter-clockwise count was different from the clock-wise count. By a diamond or two. Exciting.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Of course,the most skilled will always prevail. The skills needed will be different, however. In fact the game itself will be changed into something unrecognizable. I'm of the opinion that the game itself has an intrinsic value that is worth protecting. Guess I'm conservative like that. And no, I'm not a pro, so I do find it somewhat challenging to adapt, especially in tournaments with no warmup allowed. (We have those here).

Pool does have a governing body, it's just that it's a worthless hunk of sh..that does nothing but collect money. The American chapter is especially pathetic.
Click to expand...

I agree with you100%. The super fast tables and rails have negated the need for a "stroke".

I love playing on slower tables where you can let your stroke out. The super fast playing conditions make it like pachinko or something. It isn't pool as I learned it years ago. Same thing with all the rule changes and pogo jump sticks.
 
Flip_dat_Quarta said:
How many times have you taken the time to do the math for a 3 rail kick only to find out that you missed by a whole diamond because you were playing on a Diamond table? It's frustrating and makes you just want to go off feel next time. Is it really that hard to create an adjustment factor for diamonds??

With diamond tables being the preferred tables to play on it's kind of stupid to have all of the systems based off some other type of table with loose rails.

Someone needs to take all of the 2 and 3 railing kicking/banking systems and reconfigure them so that they actually work on diamond tables(tight rails).

Since two and three rail kicks don't come up that often it's hard enough to remember the system when you need to but it's even harder to try to figure out how much you should adjust from the system to account for the tight rails.

And yes, every table is going to play different based on various conditions but most diamond tables I've played on have been pretty consistent so I think they need their own baseline systems. If you need to adjust from there you can based on humidity or whatever.
Click to expand...


It's only a guide line not set in stone. It will change from table to table and will be different on the same table with temp changes. I for one never use it like most players do. I use Geometric angles more than I use the diamonds and I am a pretty good with banks and kicks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top