Predator Revo shaft full review and deflection test

[Cardigan Kid]

Just curious of what diameters and tapers you have published? Where is your robot? How much time and money have you spent on R&D? Where are the results of your latest prototype? At what point did you find that a larger diameter shaft that is spliced and laminated with the long or short grains, higher or lower density, proved to be insufficient? I could go on for days..

Sounds to me like you're just upset that they did not make the same diameter as your current shaft, give it time! They are in the forefront of the industry for a reason..

No need for the straw man debate when it's just a simple request for honesty from predator.

Well their be different size diameters? They had reps saying yes in January, now April, the rep says no. You however say give it some time. But that doesn't sound like predators marketing here. They are releasing a one size fits all with no plans for future changes (according to the rep at SBE).

Now Scott Lee above has stated he will be "fitted" for one in a couple of weeks. So does that mean they will build him one from his personal specifications? Is that what they are doing for other pros like Tony, Darren, and Jasmine? Then why should we the public invest in a generic one size fits all if predator has the capabilities of varying shaft diameter?

These are all valid questions.

12.2 mm is what I prefer. With wood, I purchase the larger size, and have a local cue maker tune in down. So yes, if they release the future of pool innovation without the ability to customize the taper/diameter, to me, it's a limited outlook.

AND if the pros are playing with a customized size revo shaft, and predator only releases a one size fits all (that can't be modified because of the material), but then advertises that Jasmine and darren win championships with them-IMO that's disingenuous towards the customer.

 

[Jawzcue]

No need for the straw man debate when it's just a simple request for honesty from predator.

Well their be different size diameters? They had reps saying yes in January, now April, the rep says no. You however say give it some time. But that doesn't sound like predators marketing here. They are releasing a one size fits all with no plans for future changes (according to the rep at SBE).

Now Scott Lee above has stated he will be "fitted" for one in a couple of weeks. So does that mean they will build him one from his personal specifications? Is that what they are doing for other pros like Tony, Darren, and Jasmine? Then why should we the public invest in a generic one size fits all if predator has the capabilities of varying shaft diameter?

These are all valid questions.

12.2 mm is what I prefer. With wood, I purchase the larger size, and have a local cue maker tune in down. So yes, if they release the future of pool innovation without the ability to customize the taper/diameter, to me, it's a limited outlook.

AND if the pros are playing with a customized size revo shaft, and predator only releases a one size fits all (that can't be modified because of the material), but then advertises that Jasmine and darren win championships with them-IMO that's disingenuous towards the customer.

Full disclosure? With all of the conjecture thrown around this forum, have you or anyone else even taken the time to call Predator? Have you read the website? Seems pretty forthcoming to me.

FAQ
http://www.predatorcues.com/revo-faq/

Technology Data
http://www.predatorcues.com/technology/revo-technology/

I have spoken with pretty much every pro who has tested the shaft, in its prototype form, and well you know that prototypes change, so are they using what was at SBX, maybe not, but I know that the one there was pretty close to the final revision.

When I spoke with them, they informed me that the 12.9mm would be there initial offering, never detesting that there may be more options in the future.Same goes with the cues they will offer soon. You have latched onto this for what reason I do not know.

As for Scott Lee getting "fitted" maybe they meant to his cue, he has already praised the shaft as it is.

Too much narrow minded thinking going on here.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

its new to the billiards industry, but its not new.....they been making prepeg carbon and doing unidirectional in many other products for a long time, products used alot in high end race cars, planes and bikes......even that molecular foam description sound like something thats been on the market for a min.....and actually sort of coincides with this shafts release......i did quality control for american composite group for a while when i lived in oklahoma and learned quite a bit about the stuff.

Generally the weaves you see on the outside of structures made of carbon fiber is only there for cosmetic look.....all the weaves are basically the same "stiffness" and its usually over a uniidirectional underlayer.....outer layer of shaft looks like it is probably a paper style carbon or a granulated style prepeg.......

the "hardness" has nothing to do with the actual carbon fiber...that quality is gotten from the RESIN.

I will say that at least they were smart enough not to have some dumbass weave pattern on the top layer.....

prepeg is great because you get lower resin to fiber ratio, which makes it stronger than taking carbon fabric and drowning it in resin then vacumming.....tho the downsideis that prepeg must be heated to cure...over couple hundred in general. If onejust got the fabric you could use any resin, CA or epoxy to make carbon products without the heating, but without fatory conditions your resin content will be around 50/50 resin to fiber and its not nearly as strong all around as prepeg which is around 30 something odd percent resin, 70 something on fiber.

they been trying to make ivory substitutes for over 100 years, been trying to find WH micarta or get substitutes.....neither for example have ever cut the cake perfectly........sure it works....its close.....but you know before your born....one more or less chromosome can make you a guy or a chick...

food for thought,
-greyghost

Outstanding information here.
Huge thanks for the inside scoop on the material.

Green sent to you.

 

[Break and One]

I called predator today to actually ask them about the shaft. Anytime before I called they were helpful so i figured I would give it a shot.

I was told they have no plans to release the shaft with a different joint this year. They said probably next year. He told me the place in Boston was being used for research and development and recently has been changing over to a production plant, where the revo shaft is being produced. I was also told later this year they will be selling the shaft with other predator butts at a lower price point.

Just figured I would share what a sales person at predator had to say.

 

[Chopdoc]

Well it's not a "novelty" for the players that are using it. Tony Robles has been playing with it for more than a year. I'm getting fitted for one in a couple of weeks, so I'll be posting my own observations, and letting a LOT of people hit with it. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Respectfully, I disagree, it is still a novelty, and still will be after you get one and show it off:

nov·el·ty
/ˈnävəltē/
noun
1. the quality of being new, original, or unusual.


I tend to be pretty precise with language.

Perhaps you felt the noun was derogatory? It wasn't and isn't. :smile:





.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

Full disclosure? With all of the conjecture thrown around this forum, have you or anyone else even taken the time to call Predator? Have you read the website? Seems pretty forthcoming to me.

FAQ
http://www.predatorcues.com/revo-faq/

Technology Data
http://www.predatorcues.com/technology/revo-technology/

I have spoken with pretty much every pro who has tested the shaft, in its prototype form, and well you know that prototypes change, so are they using what was at SBX, maybe not, but I know that the one there was pretty close to the final revision.

When I spoke with them, they informed me that the 12.9mm would be there initial offering, never detesting that there may be more options in the future.Same goes with the cues they will offer soon. You have latched onto this for what reason I do not know.

As for Scott Lee getting "fitted" maybe they meant to his cue, he has already praised the shaft as it is.

Too much narrow minded thinking going on here.

By the way, did you even spend any time with Paul Costain? Can you tell me who that is? I spent a great deal of time talking with him and he is a person, with a brilliant set of skills, and very passionate about billiards.

Spent enough time with Ira Lee of Molinari with his predator prototype in January at Turning Stone classic. We talked about all of this and then some.

I cant understand how you think it's narrow minded to wonder about something so basic as shaft diameter.

Why did a rep at SBE tell the previous poster that no plans for size change? Does predator not want people waiting to buy the size they prefer?

Believe me, I'm all about finding out the details and not jumping to conclusions. Isn't that was this thread/forum are for?

So you say the link is cut and dry about shaft diameter?


Can I change the taper or diameter of a REVO shaft?

No, the taper and the diameter must remain the same. Any change would not only destroy the Predator REVO shaft’s low-friction finish, but would also compromise its performance, damaging the micro-thin layers of unidirectional carbon fiber tow and releasing potentially hazardous carbon fiber dust as well.

Why is the REVO shaft diameter 12.9mm?

The REVO shaft features a low-rise taper thanks to its construction. The result is a shaft that shows only a five percent increase in diameter over the first fourteen inches. This allows the REVO shaft to have a larger contact location, transferring more energy and spin while feeling like a thinner shaft in your hand.

Sounds to me they are dead set for now on 12.9mm for the general public with no plans or foreshadowing in regards to size modifications in the future per the links you posted.
If size modification was part of the future in Revo technology. Why not tell us right on the website?

 

[billiardthought]

Sounds to me they are dead set for now on 12.9mm for the general public with no plans or foreshadowing in regards to size modifications in the future per the links you posted.
If size modification was part of the future in Revo technology. Why not tell us right on the website?

I can tell you are upset about this diameter fiasco, but I don't understand why. It seems they put a lot of effort into engineering the shaft at this specific diameter, and maybe they aren't sure whether they can put out different sizes yet. Either way, I don't get what you are complaining about. If they don't offer it in another size, it's because they either can't do it to their standards or they don't think they can justify the cost vs profits.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

I can tell you are upset about this diameter fiasco, but I don't understand why. It seems they put a lot of effort into engineering the shaft at this specific diameter, and maybe they aren't sure whether they can put out different sizes yet. Either way, I don't get what you are complaining about. If they don't offer it in another size, it's because they either can't do it to their standards or they don't think they can justify the cost vs profits.

Not upset in the least.
I don't play a predator shaft anymore, but I use a P3 butt. I also used to play a Z2 years ago but now that stays in the case. I am not anti predator in the least. In fact I love the innovation.

Just searching for answers to get a better perspective on things.

What is predator saying about shaft diameter then?
Predator 314 - 12.75mm
Predator Z2 - 11.75
Predator Vantage - 12.9mm

Predator Revo - 12.9mm

Are they saying the 314 & z2 should be phased out
But they still describe them as:

ACCURACY PREFERENCE

More accurate than conventional pool cues, Z2 tops the list when it comes to nailing your shot. For those who prefer a more traditional shape but don’t want to sacrifice accuracy, 3142 offers the perfect solution.

SPIN & CUE BALL CONTROL PREFERENCE

Both 3142 and Z2 shafts provide greater control and reduce deflection, meaning more possibilities for placement around the table. The Z2 is like a supercharged shaft and requires a more consistent tip placement, while the 3142 is more forgiving.

Why is the REVO shaft diameter 12.9mm?

The REVO shaft features a low-rise taper thanks to its construction. The result is a shaft that shows only a five percent increase in diameter over the first fourteen inches. This allows the REVO shaft to have a larger contact location, transferring more energy and spin while feeling like a thinner shaft in your hand.



http://www.predatorcues.com/technology/shafts/

Predator should be commended for the innovation, but the marketing ploys of varying shaft diameters each hailed as more exact and beneficial to the next is getting suspect, IMO.

And yes, I'm all for giving innovation a shot. But I'm still under the impression, a cue should be made and adjusted to the player, not the other way around, where the player must adjust to the cue.

 

[spliced]

Why did a rep at SBE tell the previous poster that no plans for size change? Does predator not want people waiting to buy the size they prefer?

Let me clear this up as I think it was my post you are referring to. At the expo, I asked the predator rep if the diameter of the revo shaft was 12.75mm, and he told me no, it was 12.9mm. I did not ask if they were going to be offering different diameters in the future, and he did not give me any info about that.

What I did ask was about customizing the weight of the shaft (because I had read somewhere on AZB that this would be a feature), and the rep told me no and stated that he had not heard of that being an option, which is why I said it did not seem like that would be an option in the future.

Hope this helps, sorry if my initial post was confusing. From the website, it does make it sound like they are set on 12.9mm.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Not upset in the least.
I don't play a predator shaft anymore, but I use a P3 butt. I also used to play a Z2 years ago but now that stays in the case. I am not anti predator in the least. In fact I love the innovation.

Just searching for answers to get a better perspective on things.

What is predator saying about shaft diameter then?
Predator 314 - 12.75mm
Predator Z2 - 11.75
Predator Vantage - 12.9mm

Predator Revo - 12.9mm

Are they saying the 314 & z2 should be phased out
But they still describe them as:

ACCURACY PREFERENCE

More accurate than conventional pool cues, Z2 tops the list when it comes to nailing your shot. For those who prefer a more traditional shape but don’t want to sacrifice accuracy, 3142 offers the perfect solution.

SPIN & CUE BALL CONTROL PREFERENCE

Both 3142 and Z2 shafts provide greater control and reduce deflection, meaning more possibilities for placement around the table. The Z2 is like a supercharged shaft and requires a more consistent tip placement, while the 3142 is more forgiving.

Why is the REVO shaft diameter 12.9mm?

The REVO shaft features a low-rise taper thanks to its construction. The result is a shaft that shows only a five percent increase in diameter over the first fourteen inches. This allows the REVO shaft to have a larger contact location, transferring more energy and spin while feeling like a thinner shaft in your hand.



http://www.predatorcues.com/technology/shafts/

Predator should be commended for the innovation, but the marketing ploys of varying shaft diameters each hailed as more exact and beneficial to the next is getting suspect, IMO.

And yes, I'm all for giving innovation a shot. But I'm still under the impression, a cue should be made and adjusted to the player, not the other way around, where the player must adjust to the cue.

I played my best pool using a 14mm solid maple shaft with a one-inch ivory ferrule and never had any problems. I don't know why people today seem to think pool can't be played with anything other than some hyped-up, new-fangled shaft.

I think the majority of people's problems are themselves...not the equipment.

 

[spliced]

And just FYI, I currently play with a 12.9mm schon shaft, and the revo shaft felt significantly thinner than mine, which was probably due to the long, nearly straight taper. I thought the shaft was between 12.5 and 12.75mm. I did not have any problem adjusting to the diameter or the deflection on the few shots that I hit with it.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

Let me clear this up as I think it was my post you are referring to. At the expo, I asked the predator rep if the diameter of the revo shaft was 12.75mm, and he told me no, it was 12.9mm. I did not ask if they were going to be offering different diameters in the future, and he did not give me any info about that.

What I did ask was about customizing the weight of the shaft (because I had read somewhere on AZB that this would be a feature), and the rep told me no and stated that he had not heard of that being an option, which is why I said it did not seem like that would be an option in the future.

Hope this helps, sorry if my initial post was confusing. From the website, it does make it sound like they are set on 12.9mm.

Thanks for the clarification. And yes, it's 12.9mm or bust (for now) according to the website.

 

[Kim Bye]

I just want to remind you guys that 314/3 is 12.8mm. Not 12.75mm like 314/2.
So bigger diameter seems to be something predator is aiming for.

 

[GideonF]

I played my best pool using a 14mm solid maple shaft with a one-inch ivory ferrule and never had any problems. I don't know why people today seem to think pool can't be played with anything other than some hyped-up, new-fangled shaft.

I think the majority of people's problems are themselves...not the equipment.

Do you really think people are saying that they think pool can't be played with anything other than some new-fangled shaft? There are people who like LD shafts, and people who don't.

The people who like LD shafts, as far as I know, all agree that people can and do play great pool with regular shafts.

In my case, when I was starting to learn about and use English, the first generation of predator shafts were out and I thought it would be easier to learn to compensate for low deflection than high deflection, so I bought the 314 and have used it ever since. I have not moved to newer, lower deflection, shafts because it would mean an adjustment period.

In the same vein, if I (like you) had learned the game before there were LD shafts I would need a very good reason to switch, because I would have to relearn compensation.

Gideon

 

[Cocoa]

I just want to remind you guys that 314/3 is 12.8mm. Not 12.75mm like 314/2.
So bigger diameter seems to be something predator is aiming for.

Do you realize what the difference is? .00196 There tolerance can easily allow that.

 

[Scott Lee]

Cardigan Kid...That is not what I meant. By "fitted" I mean getting a Revo shaft that will fit the pin on my cue. I'll be playing with the same standard shaft that everyone else has, and the same ones that were at the Expo last weekend.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

.

Now Scott Lee above has stated he will be "fitted" for one in a couple of weeks. So does that mean they will build him one from his personal specifications? .

 

[9Ballr]

I like 13 mm shafts. Don't see any problems with it or the need to go smaller.
Minnesota Fats at least one point said he liked 13.2 mm.
Willie Mosconi had a 13.2 or 13.5 mm.
Both did ok.
Much better players than I can ever dream of becoming.
By the way I may be wrong about some of the details as I'm going by
pretty old interviews. 80's I think.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

Cardigan Kid...That is not what I meant. By "fitted" I mean getting a Revo shaft that will fit the pin on my cue. I'll be playing with the same standard shaft that everyone else has, and the same ones that were at the Expo last weekend.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Thanks for the clarification, Mr. Lee

While we have you, what's your opinion on shaft diameter (what's your preference)? Should the player have to change or adapt to the shaft size/taper set by a manufacturer? This Revo is an interesting point in that it's the manufacture defining a size/taper that's unadjustable in the aftermarket.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Thanks for the clarification, Mr. Lee

While we have you, what's your opinion on shaft diameter (what's your preference)? Should the player have to change or adapt to the shaft size/taper set by a manufacturer? This Revo is an interesting point in that it's the manufacture defining a size/taper that's unadjustable in the aftermarket.

Maybe they made smaller and larger diameter shafts while testing during the R&D phase and 12.9mm was what performed the best and was best suited for durability, weight, etc.

The player needs to adapt to the equipment, if that is the case.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

Maybe they made smaller and larger diameter shafts while testing during the R&D phase and 12.9mm was what performed the best and was best suited for durability, weight, etc.

The player needs to adapt to the equipment, if that is the case.

Hey HawaiianEye, much respect to your game and I value your opinion on this.

Oscar Dominguez plays a "slightly modified" Z2 shaft (smaller than 11.75mm)
Shane plays a 12.2 mm cuetec R360

(Info from two interviews by Melissa Little in the Cue Times Billiards News volume 15 issues # 6&7 )

Professional players have had a history of modified cues to their preference.

Earlier you said you played with a 14 mm shaft. Do you still currently play that size, or did you settle into a different spec?