They may be aiming slightly below center but they are actually hitting slightly above center. Too far above center and cue ball goes thru rack to foot rail, hit the rack with draw and cue ball comes flying back towards you.
Break question - where to hit the cue ball?
- Thread starter MuchoBurrito
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They may be aiming slightly below center but they are actually hitting slightly above center. Too far above center and cue ball goes thru rack to foot rail, hit the rack with draw and cue ball comes flying back towards you.
Even though it seems logical that a flat, non-bouncing ball would give the most energy transfer, it looks very obvious that an airborne ball that hops in the air back (pop and squat) always provides a better explosion of the rack.
A flat, non-bouncing ball in my observation results in a dead-sound rack, as if the energy goes into the bed instead or the 1-ball gets trapped by the cueball, swallowing up some energy and potential movement in that split second after collision.
I think that a force examination at impact probably shows why this happens. To me, there's no question it happens (bouncing/hopping balls yields better breaks).
Freddie <~~~ likes to bounce
Hi Freddie, in my experience, a flat, non-bouncing cue ball, when it hits the rack, with forward spin, seems to simply rebound off the rack, back to somewhere this side of the rack, depending on the velocity of the cue ball. Also, if it hits very squarely with the rack, all the energy is gone & it can stick on the rack or stay thereabouts. I've heard lots of folks talk negatively about the bouncing cue ball. It's a free country. I find that the pop & stop Break Shot provides more cue ball control after impact.
The bottom line is this....the BREAK goes to the player who is willing to practise it the most, studies it repeatedly.....and keeps on practicing endlessly....because it's the FIRST shot in a game....to draw first blood towards a win....in every game. AND....if you don't practice MAKING the balls AFTER the break....being able to draw first blood on the break don't mean shit!
Very well spoken....
When I use to play back in the late 80'....I'd set around in a pool room watching everyone playing, if I saw a couple of guys gambling....I'd watch them to see if I could spot any weaknesses in their games. More often than not, the guy who won the money was an easy target to hustle out of what he'd just won....because in watching him....I'd watch to see how he did when he broke the balls....iddf he made a ball on the break or not, if so....did he run out or not. This one hotshot I must have watched him break playing 9 ball at least 30 times...he just about always made something....but I only saw him run 2 racks out of all those breaks. After the guy he was playing quit....I asked him if he wanted to play a little....cheap....races to 3 for $100. He said he didn't know who I was so he wasn't sure he wanted to play me or not. I said, I'll tell ya what...does it matter who I am....if I give you the breaks and first shot after the break every game? He was like....shocked that someone would give up so much weight like that...he couldn't wait to get started playing!!! Well, after beating him 3 sets in a row....he couldn't understand how he wasn't able to beat me....so he quit $300 down. I thanked him for the money....and told him for his own information.....having a great break was only as good as the ability to back it up with running the table afterwards....because all he was doing was turning over the table to me like I had broke the rack myself....making 3-5 balls on the break....only....I was the one shooting then, and all I had to do was finish what he had failed to do.....and.get paid for doing so.
I agree. If you look at Thorsten's break during the 2015 US open, he has no pop & squat, and seems to hit perfectly center ball, as the CB slowly rolls backwards towards the headrail every time. And I did not think his breaks were particularly good. They looked weak compared to guys who pop & squat the ball (which is what I always aim to do).
I don't know why this would be, I don't see any other place for the energy to be transferred to other than the head ball. But I agree with you that in my experience, a perfectly flat hit with no pop or follow does not produce as powerful a break.
My hypothesis is that it has to do with the way the cue tip impacts the cue ball. Since the CB is being struck at a slightly downward angle, I wonder if hitting slightly above center transfers the most energy to the CB. Ie. If struck dead-center or below, the cue tip slides down on the ball a little bit, reduces the energy transferred to the CB.
So, here's the problem we have today with today's game of pool being played. Over the last 20 years or so, the cloth, balls, tables....racking aids....EVERYTHING has gotten better, and in doing so....the average players have gotten better too. Soft shots to get position, soft breaks....are all compared to the OLD days when ya had to have a stroke....well, that's not what the real problem is. The REAL problem....is that the "PROS" have gotten better as well....on that same new equipment that has helped out the average players improve their own games....but those AVERAGE Joe's also have seen that break and runs are a simple thing for the average Pros now....so they ALL realize....they're getting beat on the break, because they don't run out after the break like most Pros do....so in come the alternating breaks...in order to put the breaks on high package runs. Well, that only slowed things down just a little....because if the average Joe didn't his game after the break...the Pro did, then backed it up with a break and run of his own.....so, next came....racking the 9 on the spot....making it harder for the Pro....on his break....to break and run. Well, once again....that helped, but not as much as hoped for....SO, how about a break box....YEAH that'll do it....well, once again, not as well as hoped. So, great idea....along with all the other handicaps to try and make the game even between a Pro and the average player....let's make a rule that 3 balls have to pass the side pockets to the head end of the table.....or its an illegal break....and it's time to take the table away from the Pro....so that OUR crybaby....amateur players can NOT hang even with the "PRO'S" and have a chance at winning some of that prize money too.....as they so richly deserve it too.
I bet if you broke the balls a 1000 times a week for the next 4 months....you wouldn't be asking questions about how others do so well with their breaks.....even if they're NOT pretty breaks....but work consistently.
You finally have all the evidence you need now to conclude that the majority of people really don't know what they are talking about.
If you are looking for that hop and stop SVB type action, you are hitting very close to center, slightly downward. Like 1/8 of a tip high will produce that "grind to a halt" action. Much higher than that and you might follow some. You are 100% correct that hitting even the slightest bit below center will dramatically pull the cueball back. Remember that the rack weighs quite a bit more than the cue ball. Thus with zero spin and a solid hit, the cueball will bounce back off the rack anywhere from a little to a lot, depending on speed. More so for an 8 ball rack.
KMRUNOUT
I think you are describing some of the reasons why the OP would ask his question, but totally ignoring the question. So *kinda* helpful I guess.
KMRUNOUT
I bet if you broke the balls a 1000 times a week for the next 4 months....you wouldn't be asking questions about how others do so well with their breaks.....even if they're NOT pretty breaks....but work consistently.
I bet if he got some good helpful answers in this thread, he could drop that "1000" number down considerably. Probably save way more than the time it takes to type out some advice...
KMRUNOUT
I bet if you broke the balls a 1000 times a week for the next 4 months....you wouldn't be asking questions about how others do so well with their breaks.....even if they're NOT pretty breaks....but work consistently.
Umm, okay.
I actually wasn't asking how others "do so well" with their breaks. I was asking why many playes SAY that they're hitting the break with "draw" when they're obviously hitting with follow.
And secondly, I probably hit about 300 breaks a week and study every one of them. There is nothing lacking abouty break chief. By far the best part of my game.
It's precisely because I'm so studious about the break that I had this question about what some people claim regarding hitting it with draw. Was not looking for advice there big guy.
JoseV...Everything you said is true, with the exception of what's bolded. MOST players don't strike the CB exactly where they think they are aiming, due to stroke flaws, tension, and emotions, among other things. The Jacksonville Project proved that the contact point between tip & CB is only 3mm, regardless of what part of the tip contacts the CB (and regardless of other tip variables...size, hardness, roundness, etc)...even on the break. What you're observing is chalk dust 'blowback'. The actual contact is much smaller...about the size of the red circle on a red circle CB. 
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
I got it, the tip is not really making full contact with the CB, the residue left behind just gives the impression that it is. I always knew with all other shots that that tip contact is miminal, i just don't know why my brain did not think the same rule applies with the break.JoseV...Everything you said is true, with the exception of what's bolded. MOST players don't strike the CB exactly where they think they are aiming, due to stroke flaws, tension, and emotions, among other things. The Jacksonville Project proved that the contact point between tip & CB is only 3mm, regardless of what part of the tip contacts the CB (and regardless of other tip variables...size, hardness, roundness, etc)...even on the break. What you're observing is chalk dust 'blowback'. The actual contact is much smaller...about the size of the red circle on a red circle CB.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Thank you for the clarification.
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Don't YOU get it....that IS the point....PRACTICE BREAKING TO MASTER THE SHOT.....but no, most just want the answer to the perfect break so they don't have to put in the time.....like standing in line at the movie theater to a great show.....they just want to cut in at the head of the line....and skip the wait....like everyone else has to put up with. WHY would anyone who has a perfect break.....explain, or show anyone else how to break the same as they do.....when they had to make a 1000 breaks in a row time after time....in order to understand.....and perfect their break!
So, again, I have to say, it seems like you didn't really read my post, and just started making assumptions.
I am not asking for break advice.
I am not asking for help with my break.
I am not asking for other people to tell me their "secrets".
I asked why I hear many people say that they are "drawing" the CB on the break when they are obviously, actually hitting the ball above center - with follow. I am asking why so many OTHER pool players seem to be confused about what they are doing to the CB.
I guarantee you I log more hours working on my break mechanics, and learning the finer details of the break stroke, than the vast majority of amateur players. I'm not asking for help with the break, I put my own hours in, thanks.
You COMPLETELY misunderstood my OP and this thread.
Thanks for coming out though...
I don't have a big power break. Most of my 9 ball breaks from the side rail are at 17 or 18 mph. I found that my best results were trying to hit the CB center ball and "kill" it after contact with the 1 ball. In other words, a powerful stop shot. The CB bounces back a few inches if done correctly and the 1 ball heads past the side pocket toward a corner pocket. After practicing playing the ghost with many hundreds or thousands of racks, I found this resulted in the most corner balls pocketed and best spread. I found for myself that any intentional hit above or below center is difficult to control, causing less spread, too much CB movement and the most scratches. Less is more in this case.
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Its simple....the majority of those giving their advice.....have NO idea what they're talking about.