What is so special about Cognoscenti cues?
- Thread starter haminh
- Start date
I would probably will never buy a custom cue, but if I ever did it would be a Cognoscenti. They are great hitting cue (at least the one I used for about 8 hours), and they look elegant IMO. Johnnyt
Str8Strokin
New member
For those of you that say a cognoscenti doesnt play well.... its you and youre skill level not the cue. Dont blame a 2500$ cue when you cant make a straight in shot. Its not the cue
Very good point, it seems that some people are under the misapprehension that cnc takes all the work out of cue building.Ken...The fact that you "diss" CNC just shows that you know nothing about cue construction. You're making judgement calls on something you just personally don't like (which is an opinion...and to which you're entitled). That said, CNC cues don't PLAY any different than sharp point cues. The playability (as JB mentioned), is extremely subjective from person to person, and is based on how the cue is constructed...not how the points are "installed" in the cue. For your information, regardless of whether points are CNC or 'hand-cut', they still have to be HAND-INLAID...which if you had ever been to Joe's shop, you'd understand how difficult it is to put some of the elaborate scrollwork points is (I own the first split Shiseido point cue, and it is one of my prized possessions). I'm in the camp (like several other knowledgeable cue owners here) that Joe's cues play like nothing else, and I've owned dozens of cues, including Balabushka, Southwest, old Gina, JW, and Szamboti (among many others). The Cog has always been my favorite...and it's the "hit" that, for me, makes it favored to me. Forget about the dazzling designs that Joe has come up (and some others have tried to copy). Opinions are like a-holes...every has one, and many of them stink (but we're all entitled to our own).
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Designing and cutting in multiple axis takes alot of time to master.
I agree with all of this.
As an side, I was also told by someone familiar with his cuemaking that he had a scientist or scientists at a university (sorry for fuzzy details) conduct experiments into optimizing a cues playability.
I have no skin in his cues and have never owned one, but can respect that kind passion about your craft. Even if in the end "hit" is a subjective thing.
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YEP, And I bet Joe is down in his shop working on that shiny red Ducati having a good laugh!
He traded the Ducati in for a pair of Vespa scooters years ago..LOL... He may be "slowing down" a bit.
I could not agree more with you on this subject. Even when cue makers do use CNC equipment there is still an exceptional amount of hand craftsmanship that goes into every cue. I almost get the feeling that people who look down on CNC cues think that you load wood, veneers, joints, ferruls, Irish linen, tips and rubber bumpers into one end of the CNC and a completed cue comes spitting out of the other end of the CNC. What about using a pantograph for inlays? Thats basically having the machine do the work and not really hand craftsmanship. Truly hand crafted inlays would be installed using only an exacto knife and maybe a Dremmel.
I do like the aesthetics of Cognoscenti cues... I think the plain janes are among the elegant designs with that ringwork! I'm not much of a floating point guy, but I do like that his are ornate without being overtly gaudy.
That said, while the designing and machining can technically be called 4-axis, in reality the machining is what we call 2.5D (vertical walls and flat bottom) using the 4th axis only for positioning (pattern repetition) the same way a manual operator would use an indexing fixture. The key of course is keeping tight tolerances, using material (wood) whose expansion rate can be more than the machines' tolerances.
If true 4-axis wrapped or 4-axis continuous machining were employed, then the pocket walls would end up being parallel to the tangent of the center of the cue minus the radius of the endmill used, and the inlays would have be cut from tubular stock, or cut on a 5-axis machine. Also if the inlay had a hole, it would be impossible to install if the corresponding boss was milled into the butt of the cue.
Joe's machine is and never has been setup for 4th axis milling. As a matter of fact his controller isn't even setup for simple A axis rotation from the g-code output... He does that manually at the machine. That said every aspect of the machine is top tier and makes for one extremely accurate machine.
Well, actually the other way around... you'd take the inlay and scribe the outline, hog it with a Dremel, then use an x-acto knife for final fitment. Even with a pantograph, all the old school style inlays came to sharp points so it required hand clean up.
I had an old Meucci, where cut diamonds were inlaid in the ebony points and butt, but the pockets were milled out with a 1/16" endmill oversized at the points and filled with epoxy. Couldn't tell from arm's length but it always bothered me. (The fiddleback curly maple shaft looked spectacular but I couldn't do squat with it.)
But I agree. The CNC's output is only as good as the guy who programs and operates it. It takes knowledge and experience to keep tolerances that ensure precision fitment. And the need for the skills to make designs that his target base find appealing and desirable. Looking around, I saw a wrapless plain jane ebony Cognoscenti with maple handle, and with those stylish rings and outline diamonds set against the black it looked downright classy. A bit pricey for me considering I just got back in and only playing once a week if that, but if I could, I'd love to have it in my stable! I find an elegance and sense of proportion to his designs, even if it's not something I normally enjoy. Tough here nowadays to find an open pool hall, let alone someone locally who owns one and is willing to let someone shoot a couple racks with.
i hate these type of threads
when it boils down to the essence it is knocking
running down the type of cue
i had one of Dennis Glenn's cog to sell
it was top drawer
Billy Incardona plays one
Billy is the smartest pool player in the world
there must be something special about them
but i don't have one
when it boils down to the essence it is knocking
running down the type of cue
i had one of Dennis Glenn's cog to sell
it was top drawer
Billy Incardona plays one
Billy is the smartest pool player in the world
there must be something special about them
but i don't have one
Yep Dean... Joe chose the name of his cues BECAUSE he knew what he offering. Why are they so special? Well if you've had one in your hands, examined it thoroughly, and hit some balls with it and STILL don't know, well you're not one who could tell the difference in the first place...
COG-
"EXCEPTIONAL CUES....
SUPERB WORKMANSHIP-
Joe is STUBBORN ABOUT HIS SHAFT WOOD TOO-
Takes an extremely long time is processing shafts-years I'm told-
Like Johnny Showman spends years cutting and prepping shafts for his cues
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Yeah, Joe is very selective about his woods and materials. Always nice closely matched shafts. No issues requiring me to ship cues back in over 6 years of proudly offering them.
That ebony plain jane with the maple handle you have for sale is just sexy....
HI Skins!
How are you Paradiddle flamma Q?
To know a Cognoscenti Cue, you should understand some of the qualities of the man who builds them-
not many besides you and those who have spent time with him, know know.
Joe is an exacting man.
Meaning, he recognizes and requires a level of quality from both around him and from himself.
He can and does machine his own parts and he makes the machines that make the machines that makes the parts.
His mechanical aptitude is guru level.
He started with cars, motorcycles, watches and guns.
What he didn't know, he learned or paid the learned
Example: While I was in his shop, I asked him "What is this?"
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=67743&cat=1,42936,42941&ap=1
He says "It's a square"
Me: "And what do you use it for?"
JG: "Anything I want to measure accurately. They cost a lot, but they're (Starrett) the best"
And so it is with most everything with Joe.
My Cog 1 of 7 of 3,700
How are you Paradiddle flamma Q?
To know a Cognoscenti Cue, you should understand some of the qualities of the man who builds them-
not many besides you and those who have spent time with him, know know.
Joe is an exacting man.
Meaning, he recognizes and requires a level of quality from both around him and from himself.
He can and does machine his own parts and he makes the machines that make the machines that makes the parts.
His mechanical aptitude is guru level.
He started with cars, motorcycles, watches and guns.
What he didn't know, he learned or paid the learned
Example: While I was in his shop, I asked him "What is this?"
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=67743&cat=1,42936,42941&ap=1
He says "It's a square"
Me: "And what do you use it for?"
JG: "Anything I want to measure accurately. They cost a lot, but they're (Starrett) the best"
And so it is with most everything with Joe.
My Cog 1 of 7 of 3,700
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