New MC cup captain team USA

[JoeyA]

Now THIS I GET.

You know Alex, there is an old saying, I'm not sure if it applies to the USA Mosconi Cup players or not. It goes like this: "You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." It is kind of hard for me to believe that any of the past Captains of the American Mosconi Cup Team have not mentioned some of the inadequacies of our players.

I really hope that our players will accept the things that Johan can offer and that it helps improve all of their games. Still think that we need a mental coach to deal with the "enthusiastic crowds".

Hope you are doing well!

JoeyA

I think most of us simply have a problem with a former Euro coach and current European being named the US Mosconi Cup team captain. It's just not right in an international competition.

Maybe we do need Johann to "coach" the US players as you suggest, but it should be done in a consulting agreement where he is subordinate to a US based captain, as an adviser. He can't be the captain if this event is going to maintain it's legitimacy. Matchroom should recognize this and change their decision.

Think how the Euros would react if the situation was exactly the opposite of what it is now.

 

[JoeyA]

I agree. No excuses for Johan if he fails to strengthen the USA Team. If he fails, he will be in the same boat as all of the other Captains of the USA Team.

Personally, I hope he comes to the USA during the year to work with some of the prospective Mosconi Cup team.

JoeyA



In this past Mosconi cup, some of our players completely missed hitting the object ball when kicking at what looked like a simple 2 rail kick. Perhaps we need to practice kicking on new clothed tables and Chinese pool tables?

JoeyA

It is here where we don't see eye to eye. I think it will take a huge effort to fix major errors in pattern play, strategy and general conceptualization. Only Justin Bergman was a complete enough player by my standards on the 2016 team. The others have weaknesses in "after the break skills" and those weaknesses showed up time and time again. If breaking big is your only path to victory against the elite, you're not well positioned to win with a neutral racker (something we badly need in the US on all streamed matches).

I'll keep an open mind. There are just over 10 months until Mosconi. Let's see what Johann accomplishes with our players in skills development in the first quarter of this time allotment. That means about 2 1/2 months, so such an evaluation will be appropriate in early April. And please, let's not use the excuse that he doesn't know who will be on the team. There aren't more than ten guys that could possibly qualify for this team, and everyone knows who they are, so the work can and must begin immediately.

 

[pro9dg]

The only hope? This is an early candidate for the most clueless post of 2017.

I have attended 17 Mosconi Cups and watched every ball
struck in the others. I have videos of every match ever
played in the Mosconi Cup. I was at every World 9 Ball
Championships from Cardiff, Taipei, Kaohsiung and Manila.
I have seen every World 8 Ball Championship live.
Plus I have organised qualifying tournaments for all these
above events.

So I guess that makes me clueless.

What have you done other than brown nose Mike Dechaine?.

 

[pro9dg]

What an imperious load of ignorant horseshit.

I won't dignify this with any response other than to say my text was packed with facts.

 

[BJTyler]

I won't dignify this with any response other than to say my text was packed with facts.

Some good insight there Joey. The US recent performances have shown the need for a radical solution and there is simply nobody in the USA who could apply it. That is not to say that there are no good coaches in the States. That would be patently untrue but there is not one capable of instituting a program that will stop players in their tracks and make them listen. Right now Johann is the only one who can make this happen. Worthy individuals as they are Archer, Wiley and Varner have all failed in recent years. Jeremy Jones was touted as a candidate as was Tony Robles. Jay Helfert, well don't even go there.
If you want to represent your country in the Mosconi Cup then you must submit yourself to the rigorous examination that Johann will put you under. Otherwise you will remain a born loser. If any player is foolish enough to believe there is any other way to go then they should consider a different career path.
This might not be Johann's greatest decision to take on such a task because there is not one plater who has the ferociousness of Appleton, the brashness of Jayson Shaw, the doggedness of Mark Gray, the gusto of Niels Feijen or the tenacity of Albin Ouschen. But he is your ONLY hope and no amount of xenophobia will dilute his resolve. So all you haters had better get use to it.

Do you know what the word "fact" actually means?

-------------
fact
/fakt/
noun

- a thing that is indisputably the case.
------------

 

[GB Basher]

IMO Matchroom have made a very poor decision in making Johan Team Captain.
Yes, I believe that he has loads to offer the US players and could be of great assistance to the US players.
But Matchroom should of given the Captains job to an American with the proviso that the new Captains first task would be to announce Johan as his assistant.
.....This, I believe, would of be seen very favourably by most Americans.

Totally agree with SJM it is not possible for any coach to his job properly whilst based in a different country.

 

[Island Drive]

I've had a few days to think about this and I can only compare it with two other sports, Golf and Tennis. Both are individual sports with a team competition between countries/continents. In Golf we have the Ryder Cup and the captain has always been an American player or former player. In Tennis there is the Davis Cup and likewise the captain has always been American. I don't think there will ever be a foreign captain for either of these teams.

In this respect that makes this decision to hire a foreign coach unique among similar sports. Somehow it takes the luster off the whole idea of the competition imo. A victory now by Team USA will be tainted in the opinion of many, as if we couldn't do it on our own. That is pretty obvious by the responses on here and I'm sure it will be shared by many pool fans all across the country.

No question Johann is a good guy and a great coach. Is it the best decision for all concerned, I'm not so sure now.

Good wording....What would be very interesting, find out why Matchroom chose this path? Who gave him this idea? The mindset of pool in America is completely different than Europe. Allison Fisher proved that by coming over here and dominating, till their tour unraveled. The use of a pool table, and the mindset of the GREAT Snooker players, gives them the proper tools to become successful. In the states it has never been looked at that way, it's always about the next score, steer or lamb that's going off.

 

[jsp]

Believe what you will. Far as I'm concerned the Cup has went full retard with this move. They do shit like this to drum up drama and interest. I'm done caring about it.

Huh? Did you not just post the following last month?...

Whoever puts their head in the woodchipper next has my condolences. That is a brutal job with not many paths to success. I liked Mark for the fact he brought a lot of class to the whole thing. Always figured Robles would be the next man up.

Having Johan as coach would send the Euro's into a seizure. So I like it but it won't ever happen. Johan is way too smart to do that to his legacy. Risk vs reward is all out of whack.

I'm hearing different things but just have to wait and see what Matchroom does.

The reason I remember this is because I replied to your post agreeing with you about Johan not choosing to do so for his own reputation.

But I guess we're both wrong about knowing how Johan thinks. But given that he has already made the decision, why have you changed your opinion about "liking" him as coach?

I don't understand all the hostility regarding this decision. I don't mind Johan coaching Team America.

 

[sjm]

I have attended 17 Mosconi Cups and watched every ball
struck in the others. I have videos of every match ever
played in the Mosconi Cup. I was at every World 9 Ball
Championships from Cardiff, Taipei, Kaohsiung and Manila.
I have seen every World 8 Ball Championship live.
Plus I have organised qualifying tournaments for all these
above events.

So I guess that makes me clueless.

What have you done other than brown nose Mike Dechaine?.

Yes, you are clueless if you think that only one person in the world can offer hope to Team USA -- and yes, you wrote that Johann is America's ONLY hope. The kindest thing anyone can say about that comment is that it is illogical and I've not seen anyone (and AZB posters cover the entire world) agree with the remark --- the worst thing one could say is that it's both dismissive of and insulting to American pool and coaches who reside in America.

FYI, I have regularly attended pool events all over the USA for forty one years. I've been to about 20 World Straight Pool Championships and about five World 8-ball Championships (guess we've attended some of the same events). I have been to nine straight Derby City Classics and was there for all nine days at each of them. I've been to numerous US Open events, both straight pool and nine ball and have attended twenty one BCA National Championship pro events. I've attended Mosconi Cups, countless Joss Tour events and countless Predator events. I spend about fifty-sixty days a year at pro pool tournaments sweating the matches, and count hundreds of pro players from all over the world as friends, many of whom I see socially on a regular basis. I've probably attended over 60 WPBA events live over the years.

I may well be the fan of the game found on the most Accu-stat tapes in the sport's history.

I have watched the stream of practically every WPA event and have knowledge of every player that has ever won one of them.

It's safe to say that I'm considered one of America's top pool historians and I've probably known and watched every superstar of American pool since Luther Lassiter.

I am a graduate of an Ivy League University so I'm not the idiot you think me. I had a successful career in finance that allowed me to retire at 50.

I have contributed well over $100,000 of my own money to pool causes in America over the years and have helped to finance and produce events. Just a week ago, I was counted among the sponsors of the new World 8-ball Series developed by Darren Appleton. This week, I count myself as one of the sponsors of the Derby City Straight Pool event. Unlike most sponsors, I seek nothing in return for my sponsorship.

I've served three terms on the Board of Directors of the Women's Professional Billiards Association over the last twenty years.

I have been an instructor and two of my students went on to be successful professionals.

Let me know if you're convinced yet that I do more "than brown nosing Mike Dechaine" --- or are you going to be as dismissive of me as you have been of American pool and its capacity to produce world class coaches?

OK, I've blow off enough steam.

Despite our online tussle, sir, it seems to me we share a passion for this sport and I do hope that one day I have the pleasure of meeting you.

 

[pro9dg]

Do you know what the word "fact" actually means?

-------------
fact
/fakt/
noun

- a thing that is indisputably the case.
------------

.................and the point of all your red ink is...........?

 

[BJTyler]

.................and the point of all your red ink is...........?

Just highlighting the "fact" that while your post is packed, it is not packed of facts. Instead it is packed with the typical remnants of an equine's business end.

 

[JAM]

.................and the point of all your red ink is...........?

Don't tickle their trouts, Doug. At this point in the thread, a game of tag team will ensue. There's a wee bit of politics behind the scenes too.

Again, I see nothing wrong with having Johann as the captain for Team USA.

Maybe everyone will be satisfied when it is Team Asia v. Team Europe and Matchroom Sport eliminates USA altogether.

Every single year, Matchroom adjusts the eligibility requirements and rules to accommodate Team USA -- not Team Europe -- because of the sad condition of American professional pool. I commend them and feel grateful for the jelly roll each year to five of our best.

Wishing Johann the best!

 

[pro9dg]

Yes, you are clueless if you think that only one person in the world can offer hope to Team USA -- and yes, you wrote that Johann is America's ONLY hope. The kindest thing anyone can say about that comment is that it is illogical and I've not seen anyone (and AZB posters cover the entire world) agree with the remark --- the worst thing one could say is that it's both dismissive of and insulting to American pool and coaches who reside in America.

FYI, I have regularly attended pool events all over the USA for forty one years. I've been to about 20 World Straight Pool Championships and about five World 8-ball Championships (guess we've attended some of the same events). I have been to nine straight Derby City Classics and was there for all nine days at each of them. I've been to numerous US Open events, both straight pool and nine ball and have attended twenty one BCA National Championship pro events. I've attended Mosconi Cups, countless Joss Tour events and countless Predator events. I spend about fifty-sixty days a year at pro pool tournaments sweating the matches, and count hundreds of pro players from all over the world as friends, many of whom I see socially on a regular basis. I've probably attended over 60 WPBA events live over the years.

I may well be the fan of the game found on the most Accu-stat tapes in the sport's history.

I have watched the stream of practically every WPA event and have knowledge of every player that has ever won one of them.

It's safe to say that I'm considered one of America's top pool historians and I've probably known and watched every superstar of American pool since Luther Lassiter.

I am a graduate of an Ivy League University so I'm not the idiot you think me. I had a successful career in finance that allowed me to retire at 50.

I have contributed well over $100,000 of my own money to pool causes in America over the years and have helped to finance and produce events. Just a week ago, I was counted among the sponsors of the new World 8-ball Series developed by Darren Appleton. This week, I count myself as one of the sponsors of the Derby City Straight Pool event. Unlike most sponsors, I seek nothing in return for my sponsorship.

I've served three terms on the Board of Directors of the Women's Professional Billiards Association over the last twenty years.

I have been an instructor and two of my students went on to be successful professionals.

Let me know if you're convinced yet that I do more "than brown nosing Mike Dechaine" --- or are you going to be as dismissive of me as you have been of American pool and its capacity to produce world class coaches?

OK, I've blow off enough steam.

Despite our online tussle, sir, it seems to me we share a passion for this sport and I do hope that one day I have the pleasure of meeting you.

Easy Tiger! Of course I know of your credentials and respect what you stand for. I am just jousting with you.
However, I stand by my assertion that there is nobody in America who could do the job better than Johann. I know there are good coaches there, that is a given. But this is horses for courses and JOHANN IS A THOROUGHBRED.

Any names that you came up with would just be 'the same old same old' failed turn up and hope for the best system. I notice that more people seem to be agreeing with my view that there is a skill gap between the teams and nothing will change until that is narrowed.

I too would love the chance to meet up with you some day

 

[Island Drive]

It is here where we don't see eye to eye. I think it will take a huge effort to fix major errors in pattern play, strategy and general conceptualization. Only Justin Bergman was a complete enough player by my standards on the 2016 team. The others have weaknesses in "after the break skills" and those weaknesses showed up time and time again. If breaking big is your only path to victory against the elite, you're not well positioned to win with a neutral racker (something we badly need in the US on all streamed matches).

I'll keep an open mind. There are just over 10 months until Mosconi. Let's see what Johann accomplishes with our players in skills development in the first quarter of this time allotment. That means about 2 1/2 months, so such an evaluation will be appropriate in early April. And please, let's not use the excuse that he doesn't know who will be on the team. There aren't more than ten guys that could possibly qualify for this team, and everyone knows who they are, so the work can and must begin immediately.

If many of our players are not picked till it comes down to the wire....with needed points and the US Open in the fall, doesn't this make coaching the team immediately become impossible? Feels like many of the team, are not eligible or picked till late fall? Or am I missing something?

Getting the cats to listen, work and commit is a whole nother' deal, IMO.
Also, with SVB past stats, does he even want to play this year? Like tennis, some players are good at scotch doubles, some are not. IMO, Shane has difficulty because he's sooooooooooooo visual, that his mind is unable to settle in this environment, just the way it is. Wish I could write/express myself as well as you do SJM. My skills were much better on the felt than in sentence. But I can sure type fast . I too would like ta meet ya someday, you'd be surprised where my motivation comes from. I was in Buffalo NY in winter of 63-64. I was the Apollo Ohno of my teen age youth in short track speed skating, with the Greatest amateur athlete of all time at my side as my mentor, Terry McDermott....according to Jim McCay the announcer.

 

[sjm]

Easy Tiger! Of course I know of your credentials and respect what you stand for. I am just jousting with you.

I reckoned that you didn't know who I am and felt your words belittled my many contributions to the game we both love. Sorry I misinterpreted you.

However, I stand by my assertion that there is nobody in America who could do the job better than Johann. I know there are good coaches there, that is a given. But this is horses for courses and JOHANN IS A THOROUGHBRED.

That was not your assertion, and I think I've posted many times that Johann is a phenomenal coach and likely the best ever at the Mosconi. No American fan questions his credentials as a coach. I met him at, what I believe was the 2013 Mosconi after-party, and thought highly of him.

Refreshing your memory concerning your assertion about Johann in this thread:

he is your ONLY hope and no amount of xenophobia will dilute his resolve. So all you haters had better get use to it.

Had you merely said that he's the best ever coach at the Mosconi, that would have been fine, not to mention accurate, but you took the extreme step of labeling him America's ONLY shot, a most offensive statement that still has me upset. Garnishing this bizarre remark with the suggestion that to disagree with this appointment is to be xenophobic was equally offensive. Isn't the presumption that an American-based coach would have more opportunities to spend time with the players one on one and help them to bridge the gaps in skills obvious?

Did you know that the two men I believe to be Europe's only male BCA HOFers both trained with American coaches? Ralf Souquet, perhaps Europe's greatest ever Mosconi player but surely one of them, counts Pennsylvania's Jim Rempe as one of his earliest and greatest influences. Oliver Ortmann felt so strongly about Wisconsin's Jerry Briesath's influence on him that he asked him to present him at his BCA HOF induction, and Jerry obliged. Oliver commented in his induction speech that had he lived in America, Briesath would have been his full-time coach. Yes, we really do have some guys who are legendary coaches right here in the US!

Are you suggesting that guys like these and many other American pool wizards couldn't steer the course of American pool at the Mosconi?

 

[Island Drive]

I reckoned that you didn't know who I am and felt your words belittled my many contributions to the game we both love. Sorry I misinterpreted you.




That was not your assertion, and I think I've posted many times that Johann is a phenomenal coach and likely the best ever at the Mosconi. No American fan questions his credentials as a coach. I met him at, what I believe was the 2013 Mosconi after-party, and thought highly of him.

Refreshing your memory concerning your assertion about Johann in this thread:



Had you merely said that he's the best ever coach at the Mosconi, that would have been fine, not to mention accurate, but you took the extreme step of labeling him America's ONLY shot, a most offensive statement that still has me upset. Garnishing this bizarre remark with the suggestion that to disagree with this appointment is to be xenophobic was equally offensive. Isn't the presumption that an American-based coach would have more opportunities to spend time with the players one on one and help them to bridge the gaps in skills obvious?

Did you know that the two men I believe to be Europe's only male BCA HOFers both trained with American coaches? Ralf Souquet, perhaps Europe's greatest ever Mosconi player but surely one of them, counts Pennsylvania's Jim Rempe as one of his earliest and greatest influences. Oliver Ortmann felt so strongly about Wisconsin's Jerry Briesath's influence on him that he asked him to present him at his BCA HOF induction, and Jerry obliged. Oliver commented in his induction speech that had he lived in America, Briesath would have been his full-time coach. Yes, we really do have some guys who are legendary coaches right here in the US!

Are you suggesting that guys like these and many other American pool wizards couldn't steer the course of American pool at the Mosconi?

Rempe....was the first words out of my mouth, when Whoosh Wilson walked. I'd love ta at least see em in the booth/commentary, but.

 

[sjm]

If many of our players are not picked till it comes down to the wire....with needed points and the US Open in the fall, doesn't this make coaching the team immediately become impossible? Feels like many of the team, are not eligible or picked till late fall? Or am I missing something?

Getting the cats to listen, work and commit is a whole nother' deal, IMO.
Also, with SVB past stats, does he even want to play this year? Like tennis, some players are good at scotch doubles, some are not. IMO, Shane has difficulty because he's sooooooooooooo visual, that his mind is unable to settle in this environment, just the way it is. Wish I could write/express myself as well as you do SJM. My skills were much better on the felt than in sentence. But I can sure type fast . I too would like ta meet ya someday, you'd be surprised where my motivation comes from. I was in Buffalo NY in winter of 63-64. I was the Apollo Ohno of my teen age youth in short track speed skating, with the Greatest amateur athlete of all time at my side as my mentor, Terry McDermott....according to Jim McCay the announcer.

Points are well made, but if you asked me a year ago who would be on Team USA, I'd have said SVB, Mike D and Justin B for certain and any two of Skyler, Rodney Morris, Oscar Dominguez, Justin Hall and Shawn Wilkie. That's just eight guys I feel Coach Wilson could have and should have started working with even in January 2016. He tried something like that in 2014, picking eight guys in the winter and later reducing the team down to five.

Johann has the same opportunity and needs to begin the training process immediately if he hopes to put a dent in the skills gap by December. The composition of the team doesn't change much from year to year, and that's true of both Team USA and Team Europe.

As for meeting you, I hope the day comes. Keep me advised of when you're attending a pro pool event and we'll find a way.

 

[JD_Hogg]

I've had a few days to think about this and I can only compare it with two other sports, Golf and Tennis. Both are individual sports with a team competition between countries/continents. In Golf we have the Ryder Cup and the captain has always been an American player or former player. In Tennis there is the Davis Cup and likewise the captain has always been American. I don't think there will ever be a foreign captain for either of these teams.

In this respect that makes this decision to hire a foreign coach unique among similar sports. Somehow it takes the luster off the whole idea of the competition imo. A victory now by Team USA will be tainted in the opinion of many, as if we couldn't do it on our own. That is pretty obvious by the responses on here and I'm sure it will be shared by many pool fans all across the country.

No question Johann is a good guy and a great coach. Is it the best decision for all concerned, I'm not so sure now.

Really good points! You changed my perspective on how I saw things.

 

[BRussell]

Isn't the presumption that an American-based coach would have more opportunities to spend time with the players one on one and help them to bridge the gaps in skills obvious?

I don't think being from outside the US is an issue at all. Johann could very easily match or exceed the time spent by any previous captain: Normally the captain has spent a few days with the team. Mark Wilson went further than that but it was still really only a couple of weeks. If Johann comes here in October, makes the captain's picks, and spends a couple of weeks with the team (those that show up), he'd have spent as much time as any previous captain.

The only real issue depends on the attitude of American fans and players. If our attitude is "I don't want no stinkin Yur-ro-pee-un" and some players say they won't play and lots of fans look like they're going to cause a stink about it, Matchrooom may just say fine it's cancelled you Americans suck anyway. Or we could be mature adults about it and welcome a coach with a great reputation. I have my suspicions about which way it will go...

 

[sjm]

Normally the captain has spent a few days with the team. Mark Wilson went further than that but it was still really only a couple of weeks. If Johann comes here in October, makes the captain's picks, and spends a couple of weeks with the team (those that show up), he'd have spent as much time as any previous captain..

This is not accurate. Mosconi hopefuls made special trips individually to see Mark in St Louis, including, I seem to recall, some training time spent as his Lindenwood College pool facilities.

If Johann doesn't come until October to teach, the focus should move to the 2018 Mosconi, for maybe next year is the one in which Americans will be taught how to develop the skills in which they show deficiency in Mosconi after Mosconi.

If you're right, Johann is far more of a figure head than a coach. My guess is that you are wrong.