Best all around player ever?

Worst was dominating all the pool games when he died, even preparing to gamble with Ronnie at One Pocket. Lassiter declined his offer to play 9-Ball for 10K, a huge bet at the time. He had already won the Three Cushion World Championship at age 24, and was the best Snooker player in the country. Only Chenier from Canada could beat him and it was close. Worst had challenged "Snooker Sammy" Blumenthal to play for any amount and got turned down there too There was never anyone like Harold Worst, not even Efren. I love Efren but he didn't have the "character" of Worst. Harold was Efren on steroids! :rolleyes:
 
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Black-Balled said:
People often refer to blomdahl beating even in 9b.

As one who mentions such, do you really think they are near the same skill level in that game?

The fact that blomdahl won- what was it, a single race to 7?-speaks more to the ease of the game than to the skills of the participants.
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sure, my point was more along the lines of Efren NOT being world clas in 3 cushion nor snooker and that Blomdahl could likely hang in there in a long pool match

I wish the carom guys would take up a pool tourney once in while
 
smashmouth said:
sure, my point was more along the lines of Efren NOT being world clas in 3 cushion nor snooker and that Blomdahl could likely hang in there in a long pool match

I wish the carom guys would take up a pool tourney once in while
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No, blomdahl could not hang with the pool pros...
 
Black-Balled said:
What about this angle? As time goes by, people do things better.

Improvements in technology and dissemination of information elevate the ability of the participants. Given that, is is possible that today's best is better that the best of 30yrs ago?
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Your account has been hijacked!!! We understood everything you said:eek:
Jason
 
I don't think Dennis would have beaten Varner in all around. Nick was a world champion at banks, eight ball, straight pool, one pocket and nine ball. Dennis might have been an underdog in every discipline, although not by much.

Dennis vs Efren at his best would have had zero chance. Efren is the best 8-ball player ever, the best one pocket player ever, and had high finishes in all disciplines.

Another player worthy of mention is Luther Lassiter, who was a beast at nine ball and straight pool, and was, arguably, the best money player ever. He won two of the three disciplines at Johnston City three years running.

Unless three cushion is included, and why would it be in a pool discussion, Harold Worst is not deserving of mention in this thread. If three cushion is included, Worst is mentionable with the all-time greats without question.

Guys like Mike Sigel, Shane Van Boening, and Eddie Kelly all deserve a mention here, too.
 
sjm said:
I don't think Dennis would have beaten Varner in all around. Nick was a world champion at banks, eight ball, straight pool, one pocket and nine ball. Dennis might have been an underdog in every discipline, although not by much.

Dennis vs Efren at his best would have had zero chance. Efren is the best 8-ball player ever, the best one pocket player ever, and had high finishes in all disciplines.

Another player worthy of mention is Luther Lassiter, who was a beast at nine ball and straight pool, and was, arguably, the best money player ever. He won two of the three disciplines at Johnston City three years running.

Unless three cushion is included, and why would it be in a pool discussion, Harold Worst is not deserving of mention in this thread. If three cushion is included, Worst is mentionable with the all-time greats without question.

Guys like Mike Sigel, Shane Van Boening, and Eddie Kelly all deserve a mention here, too.
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Stu, as good as Varner was (and he was) Sigel was superior overall at 9-Ball and Straight Pool and pretty close to even at Banks, One Pocket and Eight Ball. Say what you will about Mike, but he was the most highly rated player of his generation, not Nick. Sigel beat Nick more than vice versa. I'm sure you know they were traveling buddies throughout their careers.

By the way, this thread asked for the best all around player ever. It did not categorize it to only pool games and not all cue sports. I would interpret the question to include ability in all cue sports and why not. Worst was unique in his ability to cross over into various cue games and excel. Efren has tried to do the same (Three Cushion and Snooker) with limited success. There was no cue game that Worst could not play on the highest level. He is the one American I believe, if given the opportunity, could have been competitive playing Snooker in England. Yes he was that good! I saw with my own eyes what he could do and I can only give Efren the nod at One Pocket and that may not have held up either if Worst had survived. He was not like any other person I've ever seen in the pool world. There is a reason why a man who died at 37 was so revered by all who knew him. Even the hustlers proclaimed him the greatest!
 
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Absolutely

TX Poolnut said:
Efren Reyes is the best all-around pool player that ever lived.
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If you haven't seen Efren, you haven't seen pool. Plus the most entertaining to watch.
Every match you watch he never fails to come up with something that just blows your
mind. I had rather watch Efren miss than watch anyone else run a thousand balls.
Like Fast Eddie said even if you beat him he is still the best.
jack
 
kkdanamatt said:
Have any of the above three players accomplished what Nick Varner has?
Nick Varner won world titles in 14.1, 8-Ball, 9-Ball, 1-Pocket, and Banks.
In their 1990 9-Ball Challenge Match, Nick defeated Efren 60-47, and that's at the time when Efren was playing lights out 9-Ball. The answer is no.
No one else has won all those titles, except Nick.
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Those are some very good points, not to mention backed up by facts. World Championship in 5 different games. Who else has done that? Varner knows how to win, no matter the game, and no matter the talent he's playing.

The puts Varner in the discussion, if not the lead. Lets call it a tie and say Varner, Efren, and Worst :)

Still, not sure how Worst could be the Best ;) lol
 
WildWing said:
As a former Secretary of Defense said to me when there was no definite conclusion after a lengthy debate, "This has been a good conversation."

All the best,
WW
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I will have to agree with ya :)
If I had to pick just one though.....I would say Nick Varner. Just based on titles alone.
Efren Reyes has to be at the top of the heap also.... His game has been at very high level for soooo many years, we almost get tired of hearing it...Well not really :)
 
sjm said:
I don't think Dennis would have beaten Varner in all around. Nick was a world champion at banks, eight ball, straight pool, one pocket and nine ball. Dennis might have been an underdog in every discipline, although not by much.

Dennis vs Efren at his best would have had zero chance. Efren is the best 8-ball player ever, the best one pocket player ever, and had high finishes in all disciplines.

Another player worthy of mention is Luther Lassiter, who was a beast at nine ball and straight pool, and was, arguably, the best money player ever. He won two of the three disciplines at Johnston City three years running.

Unless three cushion is included, and why would it be in a pool discussion, Harold Worst is not deserving of mention in this thread. If three cushion is included, Worst is mentionable with the all-time greats without question.

Guys like Mike Sigel, Shane Van Boening, and Eddie Kelly all deserve a mention here, too.
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I'm no expert. I'm in my early-40s and didn't get a chance to see guys from before the '90s or so. However, I find it hard to believe that Dennis wouldn't have a good chance in any type of pool match because he has to be one of the most accurate shooters of all-time. Maybe there were guys that could shoot as straight as him in the past, but I doubt most could keep up with his ball pocketing abilities. It seems like he can get out from anywhere.
 
westcoast said:
I'm no expert. I'm in my early-40s and didn't get a chance to see guys from before the '90s or so. However, I find it hard to believe that Dennis wouldn't have a good chance in any type of pool match because he has to be one of the most accurate shooters of all-time. Maybe there were guys that could shoot as straight as him in the past, but I doubt most could keep up with his ball pocketing abilities. It seems like he can get out from anywhere.
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Gotta wonder. He made a couple banks against scott, his straight pool run might be better than Varner's, you don't want to get caught taking nick of any era over dennis playing every day at any rotation game...8b? Fuggit, forfeit.

How did we do?
Banks. Coin toss...maybe, but I think DO firepower is too big.
One pocket. DO all dAy. Might be the longest match ever
Straight pool. Coin toss...maybe, but I think DO firepower is too big
9b. Do the letters need be wasted?
8b. Nick

I say dennis is eligible to be considered.
 
I assume the OP meant best all around pool player. In my mind that is 9 ball, straight pool, banks and one pocket. In which case Mike Sigel comes to my mind.
 
Just stop:

Trying to compare a pool player in the 1930s to one in the 1970s to one in 2017 is an exercise in futility. Counting trophies won't give you an answer. Different era means different measuring sticks. In the 50s and 60s straight pool was the game (in the US). In the 80s 9-ball was the rage.

There are so many variations of games - I think it's impossible to measure. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl - but was one of the best ever. (I know - totally different situation .. just saying)

I love reading about Worst, or Crane, or Greenleaf, or Mosconi ... it won't be long before those that knew them are gone. Sigel or Earl or Varner or some of the other flashy folks from the 70s and 80s aren't getting any younger.

Right now we have SVB, Dennis, and a ton of other folks that can just "shoot the eyes of them balls". Lets cherish those great player without running anyone down.
 
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