More like she could go from pool hall to pool hall and beat the house 9 outa 10 places
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Siming Chen
- Thread starter Rhea
- Start date
More like she could go from pool hall to pool hall and beat the house 9 outa 10 places
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..........
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To add a little perspective, at the Steinway Open last year I witnessed a young Taiwanese female pro, Tsu-Chien "Gina" Wei knock out Billy Thorpe (although he was admittedly under the weather), before she was narrowly defeated hill-hill by Raj Hundal. She plays really well, but is clearly below Siming Chen's speed.
Don't forget Chezka Centeno out of the Philippines. I stood next to Darren at the US Open last October as she was running away with her match against Donny Mills, and Appleton commented for all to hear that she will have the stuff to win this tournament in several years.
Don't forget Chezka Centeno out of the Philippines. I stood next to Darren at the US Open last October as she was running away with her match against Donny Mills, and Appleton commented for all to hear that she will have the stuff to win this tournament in several years.
on her best day I don't think she beats a prime Karen Corr or Allison Fischer or Monica Fischer
she can barely get by right now a teenage Chezka who will have no peers at all in a couple of years if she continues her ascent
she would not crack the world's top 10 000 men at this moment
if she could actually crack the top 100 which fargo rtings suggest , that would place her higher than almost any women in any sport ever that could compete with male top 100
she can barely get by right now a teenage Chezka who will have no peers at all in a couple of years if she continues her ascent
she would not crack the world's top 10 000 men at this moment
if she could actually crack the top 100 which fargo rtings suggest , that would place her higher than almost any women in any sport ever that could compete with male top 100
10,000 might be a little steep, lol. But I hear ya.
Oh no ones forgot about her I expect we will see her in big money matches against men in the near future
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Yeah, she might stick me up, but i get flat out robbed by a LOT of people in the US.
Please dont make me look farther.
And a step or 3 up still exists too. Ow.
Of course, ask Allison Fisher if there is a difference, she thinks there is. Hey, but what does the most decorated Women's player that ever played in the US really know, right
This is a PC culture so we are not allowed to talk about things.
Sorry, not a "knock" on woman in the least. Men will never stop wars and killings, that in sheer numbers of the last thousand years is just unimaginable. If woman ran the world, it might be a better place. Of course, whose gonna get my beer when that happens... I'm kidding, lighten up
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In sports like swimming, running, etc, there seems to be about a 10% gap between males and females that doesn't appear to be going away and likely is related to height, muscle mass, endurance, hormones, etc.
But it took a LONG time of women training and competing in high numbers to get there. The gap used to be much bigger.
Pool is at those early stages. Many more men than women do it at a serious competitive level. So the question is if more women played seriously, would the big gap we see now remain? get to some small value and not get any smaller? go away?
I think it will more or less go away. My daughter-in-law (ok, ex-daughter in law) is a good poker player. That is another activity dominated by men for no obvious reason other than general participation levels (and like pool, it is not a particularly welcoming environment for women). She finished last year by some index in the top 100 amongst poker players. there's no particular reason she couldn't be at the top. Likely that will just require more women like her.
Regardless, all this talk about how Siming Chen couldn't compete with other players at a similar rating as her is just kind of silly.
Jay,
With all due respect. Please. Just stop.
The reason the best male pool players will always be favored against the best female pool players has absolutely nothing to do with physical strength.
We are not talking about the best against the best , we were talking Sky and anyone Shuff speed , I said Sky doesn't have to like it in a shorter race Rea thinks it's even based on Fargo I'm not all in there but down to Shuff's Fargo rate that's a whole different matter ,
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Cheska doesn't play in many tournaments compared to Chen. She is a gambler and everyday in action. Let her play as many tournaments as Chen and other female players and she will be #1 woman in the world by a lot. Right now in tournaments she shoots at too many tough shots. When she settles down in tournaments, learns when too play safe, she will go right to the top in women's pool. Johnnyt
Well since I've stepped on it I'm with you part way however I'm still always off from believing it's apples and apples , she might hang with Sky for a shorter race I can't see her hanging in a longer race , however drop down 40 points and let's call this market correction, I'm pretty sure she can hang in that group from what my eyes tell me ,,
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Here is an example of one of many kinds of connections that go into it.
Look at Vivian Villarreal, rated 675
In the past three years, she has played both men and women. The top 3 men she played were Oscar, Mitch Ellerman, and Max Eberle, average rating of 751.
Of the 35 games against these 3, she won 15 and lost 20
She also played 3 of the top 10 women (5 matches)
Xiao-Fang Fu, Ga-Young Kim, and Chieh-Yu Chao have an average rating of 761, a little over the guys.
Against these 3, Vivian won 19 and lost 49. They pretty much dominate her.
This is not that much data, but other similar comparisons reinforce it.
If you mean the winning record (like 90-something to 60-something), clearly Mike doesn't believe that with the likes of SVB, Orcollo, the Ko brothers, (or Shaw or various other super elite players mentioned by others in this thread). Not only would no one believe that, it goes completely against Fargo - all of those players are way above her on Fargo and therefore she should have a losing record against them.
If you are asking if Mike believes that she would have the same Fargo rating if it was computed based on competing with the men, then Mike does believe that, and has posted a video showing that Karen's Fargo rating is the same if you look at her games only against men vs only against women.
Mike has also done other comparisons of how players do generally when competing against much better players as opposed to peers and much worse players, and the stats suggest (to my surprise) that the Fargo algorithm sorts it out pretty well and the numbers work out about the same.
Now, obviously even if you think players are even, you can try to gain an advantage by picking things that favour that player. So you can say "play 10b", as one poster did, knowing that the 10b break is harder probably favours a male pro like Sky (and also that she probably rarely plays the game at all). Or a condition like long races (which a Sky or Oscar are used to, which she doesn't play), or dirty cloth, or foreign soil.
There is a reason that Alex Pagulayan's offer to play anyone in a race to 100 for $100k was limited to 9b and 9b on the spot (IIRC). Or when Corey beat Biado playing bar table 8b at the DCC this year - when I think Biado crushes today's Corey in a long 10b race on a 9'. Biado just wasn't familiar with bar table 8b and didn't know the break, among issues.
Again, on that point, look how Sky got barbecued when he went to the Philippines not to long ago and played their game on their tables with their conditions. I think Sky does way better against those players playing on Diamonds with Simonis at home, and probably likes his action even more if they playing bar table.
Now some might say that all of these things I've referred to aren't determinable in Fargo, and that's true. And Mike may argue that our intuition actually overstates the value of these factors, which may be true. But I don't think any of that changes the fact that Siming is somewhere close to where Fargo says she is.
Personally, I would love to see all these people who are saying she can't beat a guy ranked 250 put up some serious money. I'd be curious who would be ranked around that speed (it might well be someone like Shuff or maybe Brian Parks, but I'd certainly put some money on Siming in a reasonable 9b race.
That's not happening EVER.
I will bet it here though, and in Houston where I live. In a pool room, and on broken in cloth, none of that phony bunt the ball around new cloth. The money's here, I'm the bettor, no need to go somewhere and "hope" there's action. You round up your end or whomever and I'll post it before play.
They can race to like 100 on 4 1/4 pockets, worn cloth, diamond table, delta rack.
You can pick the game, 8, 9 or 10 ball.
Let's make it happen. I'll stream it for free.
Anything else you want to make it "fair" ? What day and what time does it have to be played? Can she get used to the time change, or does she have to play as soon as she lands? Does the humidity have to be at a certain level????
Believe it or not, both sides are the bettors, unless you pay if you lose, and get nothing if you win.
Jason<----thinks somebody^^^^^ is rabid