it's already been posted.
The record on a 5X10 has already been posted 309 held by crane and tied by mosconi.
Jaden
The record on a 5X10 has already been posted 309 held by crane and tied by mosconi.
Jaden
Comments on Willie Moscont
- Thread starter Low500
- Start date
Yes, but that was an exhibition run, not a competition run. The high competition run was held for many years by Joe Procita at 182 on a 5x10 table set in 1954.
Mosconi was a very fast player. He'd walk very quickly from one shot to the next, often back-peddeling around the table to reach a shot quicker. Didn't take a lot of warm up strokes either, even on thin cuts down the table that I think would give most guys pause.
Lou Figueroa
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Going back to the OP's original line of questioning as to how "legit" Mosconi's titles were:
His tournament record undeniably speaks for itself. Not the 526 record, but his actual scores during tournament play against other top professionals.
One could argue (weakly) that perhaps his/the competition wasn't as tough as it might have been in another time period, like today for example.
However; his actual match scores do not reflect a weak player, barely beating other weak players. His scores ( on 10ft tables no less), reflect a man POUNDING his professional opponents again and again, frequently by a LARGE margin, for 20+ years.
If you were playing Willie and missed once, you were done.
What's more is he didn't win for a few years and burn out. He won consistently, and for longer than many player's entire careers last.
Someone please beat the 526, because that's about the only dent you can put in Willies record.
Mosconi had to contend with many top players to win his championships Usually it was an invitational field of 16 of the best Straight Pool players alive and they would play a round robin format, playing every other player one match. The tournament might last two to three weeks. Guys like Crane, Cranfield, Caras and Ponzi were no slouches, not to mention Greenleaf who was still competing until the late 1940's.
Speaking of older players, anyone have any stories or tournament result soft Babe Cranfield? I recently bought the straight pool bible and even got a small 14.1 lesson from his co author. From what I am reading of the book, the guy seemed to be a 14.1 machine and had a great mind for the game. Sucks the only video footage of him we have is vs Mosconi in the challenge of champions in which he seemed completely off his game.
Lou; while I do realise it's not practical , but if ya had to whom of today's players would you compare Mosconi to? Such as stroke type, tourney wins, action matches, etc etc?????
Tied by Mosconi???? If in fact he actually " tIed " that 309, it would've been mighty suspicious dontcha think? Or did he maybe " get tired " and stop so he didn't show up his opponent ? ??
Not Lou, and never saw Mosconi alive....
I'd say Efren today with his one pocket game. Efren was unbeatable for 30 solid years in one pocket. From all accounts, that's how Mosconi was in straight pool, in a time when that was the ONLY game ALL the top players played.
30 years ? I think Efren became dominant in one pocket starting the early 90's.
Saw him give Keith 9-7 and the breaks at HT around '96.
Beat some of the biggest names early that decade.
More like 2 decades . Efren learned one-pocket way late in his career.
He was already in his late 30's when he learned it.
That being said, because Efren plays better 15-ball rotation and one-hole than Mosconi, I think it is safe to say, Efren was a better full-table player.
Efren won banks titles as well.
Never mind English billiards and snooker/golf.
I think Efren would have bbq'd Mosconi in one-pocket, banks, 15-ball, 8-ball and 9-ball.
Efren was a hell of an 8-ball player too. Won back to back PBT 8-ball titles.
It's legitimate -- October 1945 playing Joe Procita.. Mosconi made ball #309 on a break shot, but he was stuck in the rack with no good next shot and missed.
Yes, 30 years from the late 80’s. He beat everyone in Philly playing 9 ball so they switched him to 1 pocket. Within a month, he was beating everyone in one pocket too. That’s before my time, but that’s what all the old time Philly players that were around then say now. Philly was all onepocket. Hopkins, Jimmy and Pete Fusco.
In Jan - Feb of 1945 Mosconi played a World Title challenge match against Greenleaf that lasted a month!
A race to 7000 points played out in 48 matches to 125.
12 matches played in each of four cities:
NYC - The Strand ( academy)
Chicago- Bensingers
Detroit- Bensingers
Kansas City- Kling and Allen's
Mosconi won
Greenleaf snapped a cue.
Joey not sure you can make those assumptions. We don't hear much about Mosconi playing other games, but Bill Stroud pointed out that Mosconi gave pros the 5 in 9 ball, sort of suggesting that Mosconi was not really game specific. The contemporary of Mosconi that I talked to about Mosconi said that Willie would have destroyed the fielld that played the 9 ball tournament that night, and that "field" included Mizerak Hopkins Rempe and several other pros. Also, he was really good at billiards so we cant assume Efren beats him at banks either. Or 8 ball. Probably was better at rotation as I not sure he really would have ever played that. Not an answerable question.
One thing people havent pointed out about the 526 is that from the accounts it seems rare that Willie continued runs, so he ran 526 on one of the only times that he tried it, which is kind of scary.
Actually, I have heard of Mosconi playing 5-ball.
A former sparring partner of his named Wayne Norcross said he saw Mosconi give someone of Morro's speed the 7-ball.
Efren was giving local shortstops here the orange crush.
Gave Jimmy Wetch the 7-ball.
Yeah, I'm assuming quite a bit on Efren's side.
His tournament records on those games prove his greatness in those games .
The problem is what you mentioned. We don't hear of him playing those other games. And there were no tournaments of those games back then that he dominated.
wow, that's a tough one.
As far as dominance, I think you'd certainly have to consider guys like Efren, Sigel, and Earl in their primes. As far as just looking good at the table, totally comfortable, natural and looking like a killer over every shot (I can't believe I'm going to say this, lol) but I think of McCready in his prime. Imagining him with a good haircut and in a suit and tie, it's not that much of a stretch.
Lou Figueroa
I think, that this record could be beaten by modern pros. Why not, it is just a number!
But I also think, that if it gets beaten, it gets beaten by "accident". Sometimes during a practice session, video cam is running for the youtube fans...something like this.
I don't think someone will beat it because of a bet or because he wants to win the prize money someone offers for a new world record.
Just imagine how mentaly devastating it has to be to go through the process of reaching a new record. Start with a couple of 100 breaks, get to 200, break down on 50 the next run...being at 450 and see the finish line...and miss a shot...or even get closer and drop the white while on 510...next runs not over 70...and so on and so on for hours, days, weeks...I even can see the best players become insane if they try to do the 527 run on purpose.
So yeah, someone will beat that record eventually, but no prize money could force such things.
But I also think, that if it gets beaten, it gets beaten by "accident". Sometimes during a practice session, video cam is running for the youtube fans...something like this.
I don't think someone will beat it because of a bet or because he wants to win the prize money someone offers for a new world record.
Just imagine how mentaly devastating it has to be to go through the process of reaching a new record. Start with a couple of 100 breaks, get to 200, break down on 50 the next run...being at 450 and see the finish line...and miss a shot...or even get closer and drop the white while on 510...next runs not over 70...and so on and so on for hours, days, weeks...I even can see the best players become insane if they try to do the 527 run on purpose.
So yeah, someone will beat that record eventually, but no prize money could force such things.
I was there
I was there and saw it also. It was at a place on Industrial Blvd. I had never
seen anything like it. He then did trick shots never missing a one.
He made about 10 wing shots in a row and then cut the last one in the
opposite pocket. I saw him maybe 5 or 6 times after that and he ran over
a 100 every time.
jack
I was there and saw it also. It was at a place on Industrial Blvd. I had never
seen anything like it. He then did trick shots never missing a one.
He made about 10 wing shots in a row and then cut the last one in the
opposite pocket. I saw him maybe 5 or 6 times after that and he ran over
a 100 every time.
jack
Mosconi started as a pocket billiards player at about 6 years old. He then joined his family's vaudeville dance troop: " the Mosconi brothers".
A bit later he worked at an upholstery shop before getting back into pool seriously.
Eventually he began doing exhibition tours with Hoppe who taught him a great deal about carom billiards, and in his usual style, he did pretty darn well at 3cushion.
Hoppe also taught him "around the table banking" which he used with stunning effectiveness. On one occasion against Ponzi, ( also a good 3cush player) Mosconi shot a 5 rail bank for the title win !
Greenleaf also played 3cush and apparently snooker too.
Boston Shorty did as well.
Mizerak and Hopkins did too.
I think there is this boxer guy that is a fan of pool that can put up that money from what he finds in the couch cushions. I think players will do it for 10k, although 50k is a bit more of a motivator. I don't know why people don't do it just to have the record if it can be done.