Sorry about that. I actually only read a few of the first posts. I was just searching threads that discussed the slipstroke so I could share SVB's use of it rather than start a new thread.
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The Mosconi slipstroke
- Thread starter Straightpool_99
- Start date
Sorry about that. I actually only read a few of the first posts. I was just searching threads that discussed the slipstroke so I could share SVB's use of it rather than start a new thread.
I was under the impression that a slip stroke, meant you brought the cue back the last time and it slid through your bridge after being released by the back hand and that it was not even in contact with the back hand until after it contacted the cueball.
When it would drop back onto the fingers .
That was the reason I was told they used a slip stroke, so that once the cue was on the way , the back hand was no longer a factor.
The break shot looks like he was just lengthening his stroke and I can't tell what was going on in the second shot but there was no reason to do anything different for it, than the previous shots.
When it would drop back onto the fingers .
That was the reason I was told they used a slip stroke, so that once the cue was on the way , the back hand was no longer a factor.
The break shot looks like he was just lengthening his stroke and I can't tell what was going on in the second shot but there was no reason to do anything different for it, than the previous shots.
That's not a slip stroke. To play like that would be the death of speed control.
A slip stroke is when the back hand moves back on the butt during the back stroke and then grips before coming forward. The back hand is always touching the cue stick. There is no good reason to use a slip stroke.
I totally agree with Bob on this one. The cue is always in contact with your grip hand. The cue just slips in the hand during the back stroke. You then grip lightly on the follow through, really just enough to stop the cue from sliding during contact with the cue ball. That's my opinion and I am sticking with it!
Must be a lot of video in general of him right, no?
In almost every video of him playing he uses a last second grip adjustment as you call it, in at least a few shots.
Granted I have seen a few posts where you say you met and saw him play in person and I am not trying to discredit your account or opinion.
I would like to share a personal experience, my grandfather was a life long pool player, started as a young child setting up pins in a bowling alley and was allowed to play on the pool tables when there wasn't customers at the lanes, he played into his late 80s
He was born in 1926, and saw Mosconi multiple times in person, he always told me that Mosconi had a slip stroke. My grandpa would also use a slip stroke, would set up with his hand forward at address just like Mosconi, then would slide or "regrip" his cue during the stroke, he often put talc in his hand that held the cue so his hand would slide better.
Certainly my grandpa could have been mistaken, but he was a knowledgeable player who could run 100+ balls at any given time when he taught me(his late 70's then), I don't see any reason he would lie about that in passing.
He wasn't lying.
One of Mosconi's road sparring partner, Wayne Norcross, told and showed me the same thing.
Wayne was good enough to have played in the world straight pool championship at the Stardust.
He was also from PA. idolized Willie and copied his slip stroke.
Do you think the slip was phased out possibly because allot of players started gravitating toward wrapless cues?
When I was young the family all chipped in and got my grandpa a really nice Huebler, but he never played with it as he liked a wrapless cue as he said it made it easier to have the "cue slide in your hand", he always played with that old 2 piece wrap-less Dufferin sneaky pete.
I know a highly burnished linen wrap the hand slides pretty well, but nowhere near like talc on a wrapless cue.
I just meant that he was a good guy and not a blowhard, and I think Lou is also being honest, just different perceptions.
I really trust my grandpas judgement though, he was a master chief petty officer in the navy, which is basically the highest rank an enlisted man can achieve. He was a quite person who was always very thoughtful, and was great at analyzing things.
My grandpa didn't use the slip stroke on every shot, mostly he used on shots that required power and he used it on a lot of trickshots he would show me that required crazy cue ball action. On days he wasn't playing super great he didn't often use the slip stroke, so I think it requires a higher level of skill and timing?
He always recommended just a plain pendulum style stroke to me when he was teaching me.
I don't care either way if Mosconi did or didn't use it, I never could use it, just sharing a personal story. Ya'll can take it for whatever it's worth.
Most modern day clear coat finishes on cues doesn't
really slip or slide in your hand.
Maybe the Dufferin was bare wood or oil finished.
I have a Duff conversion without finish that's so
slippery it feels smooth as the shaft.
I was referring to higher end cues, even production cues,
that have multi layer sprayed clear coat finishes.
You definitely would need talc for it to slip in your hand.
I don't want to get to far off topic, but this thread sure brought back some good memories.
There was some type of finish on the cue, he may of had it refinished at some point, but there was a finish, the shaft of his cue was very dark from use, but up the shaft a little from the joint collar you could see the original white looking wood that was still covered with finish.
My grandpa was a notorious gambler, so my grandma sorta limited him playing pool, hahaha
She said he rarely would loose it just caused her to much anxiety.
He started teaching me to play around age 7, and I enjoyed the game and would always ask to go to the pool hall, so he got back into playing a little more seriously.
I remember around age 8 or 9 he did had a lot of work done on that cue. At one point he took the cue down to the machinist shop and had them bore into the butt of the cue, they cut off part of the butt of the cue as well, and then added a metal piece between the butt and the bumper, about 1.5 inches long. He also left it multiple times at the pool hall to have additional work done on it, I couldn't tell you what.
In high school I remember talking to him about that weird metal piece between the butt and bumper he had installed, he was still playing that same cue, I was a decent player by this point and had a few cues I had saved up and bought, we had a pool table at this point too,
I was a lot more interested in why he did that weight thing, and being older was capable of understanding a little better, this was the times we discussed the slip stroke, and a few years after we had bought him that nice Huebler.
He said the best cues had a lot of weight forward but was also weighted in the back, so he had the machinist add heavier inserts towards the top of the butt, they inserted like a wood dow in in the center(like when they core a cue), and heavier again at the back.
That dufferin was made before 87 for sure, and I think after 79. He had a custom cue he gave to his son he was using before that, and that was probably late 70's that he gave it away.
Maybe the weighting of the cue has something to do with the slip stroke?
Sorry for the ramble.
I'll let you guys get back to your discussion.
There was some type of finish on the cue, he may of had it refinished at some point, but there was a finish, the shaft of his cue was very dark from use, but up the shaft a little from the joint collar you could see the original white looking wood that was still covered with finish.
My grandpa was a notorious gambler, so my grandma sorta limited him playing pool, hahaha
She said he rarely would loose it just caused her to much anxiety.
He started teaching me to play around age 7, and I enjoyed the game and would always ask to go to the pool hall, so he got back into playing a little more seriously.
I remember around age 8 or 9 he did had a lot of work done on that cue. At one point he took the cue down to the machinist shop and had them bore into the butt of the cue, they cut off part of the butt of the cue as well, and then added a metal piece between the butt and the bumper, about 1.5 inches long. He also left it multiple times at the pool hall to have additional work done on it, I couldn't tell you what.
In high school I remember talking to him about that weird metal piece between the butt and bumper he had installed, he was still playing that same cue, I was a decent player by this point and had a few cues I had saved up and bought, we had a pool table at this point too,
I was a lot more interested in why he did that weight thing, and being older was capable of understanding a little better, this was the times we discussed the slip stroke, and a few years after we had bought him that nice Huebler.
He said the best cues had a lot of weight forward but was also weighted in the back, so he had the machinist add heavier inserts towards the top of the butt, they inserted like a wood dow in in the center(like when they core a cue), and heavier again at the back.
That dufferin was made before 87 for sure, and I think after 79. He had a custom cue he gave to his son he was using before that, and that was probably late 70's that he gave it away.
Maybe the weighting of the cue has something to do with the slip stroke?
Sorry for the ramble.
I'll let you guys get back to your discussion.
Slip Stroke
Ok, I have to chime in here.
I'm a little disappointed in the answers that I have read here.
I personally play with a slip stroke, and have for around 20 years.
This slip isn't used on all shots.
First, I would like to give you my definition of the slip stroke.
"It is like throwing the cue stick at the cue ball."
There you go.
The az member "book collector" is correct in his assumption.
There is definitely a release of the back hand during the "forward" stroke.
To Bob Jewett: I have a lot of respect for you and your opinion.
I have followed your writings about our game forever.
I hope you can also respect my opposite opinion about the slip stroke and possibly receive an understanding of it coming from a player that has successfully played with it at a high level.
I will agree that "There is no good reason to use a slip stroke".
Meaning, there all plenty of other strokes for people.
It is not the death of speed control. Quite the opposite.
There are a lot of positive results that this gives you.
A full stroke through the cue ball without stopping early or pulling back on the cue. Using the "weight" of the swinging cue provides highly accurate speed control. Using the "weight " of the swinging cue will give you more accuracy that having a firm grip on the back hand....that, in my opinion, can be "death" of speed control....having to vary your grip pressure is bad.
I also spin the cue in my hand.
If you stand behind someone, maybe your favorite pro, and see the points in the butt spinning while they are going back and forth in the practice stroke, they are getting the cue stick to feel light in their hand.
Dialing in the swing speed of the cue stick.
^^^This last paragraph doesn't insinuate that this player is about to let go of their cue stick and use a slip stroke, but it is step one of having a good understanding of how I like to play the game.^^^
Just one more thing.
Only some of the best in the game have came to me and talked about seeing the slip stroke when I play. Most people that I have played over the years never see it.
Now, read that again. I didn't say that I was one of the best in the game.
I just want people to understand how unnoticeable it is to see.
Thanks for reading.
Let's all enjoy this game and have respectable conversations about it.
Karate-
Ok, I have to chime in here.
I'm a little disappointed in the answers that I have read here.
I personally play with a slip stroke, and have for around 20 years.
This slip isn't used on all shots.
First, I would like to give you my definition of the slip stroke.
"It is like throwing the cue stick at the cue ball."
There you go.
The az member "book collector" is correct in his assumption.
There is definitely a release of the back hand during the "forward" stroke.
To Bob Jewett: I have a lot of respect for you and your opinion.
I have followed your writings about our game forever.
I hope you can also respect my opposite opinion about the slip stroke and possibly receive an understanding of it coming from a player that has successfully played with it at a high level.
I will agree that "There is no good reason to use a slip stroke".
Meaning, there all plenty of other strokes for people.
It is not the death of speed control. Quite the opposite.
There are a lot of positive results that this gives you.
A full stroke through the cue ball without stopping early or pulling back on the cue. Using the "weight" of the swinging cue provides highly accurate speed control. Using the "weight " of the swinging cue will give you more accuracy that having a firm grip on the back hand....that, in my opinion, can be "death" of speed control....having to vary your grip pressure is bad.
I also spin the cue in my hand.
If you stand behind someone, maybe your favorite pro, and see the points in the butt spinning while they are going back and forth in the practice stroke, they are getting the cue stick to feel light in their hand.
Dialing in the swing speed of the cue stick.
^^^This last paragraph doesn't insinuate that this player is about to let go of their cue stick and use a slip stroke, but it is step one of having a good understanding of how I like to play the game.^^^
Just one more thing.
Only some of the best in the game have came to me and talked about seeing the slip stroke when I play. Most people that I have played over the years never see it.
Now, read that again. I didn't say that I was one of the best in the game.
I just want people to understand how unnoticeable it is to see.
Thanks for reading.
Let's all enjoy this game and have respectable conversations about it.
Karate-
Slip stroke -- The grip hand slips back on the butt just prior to the forward stroke at the cue ball.
Stroke slip -- As the forward stroke at the cue ball is executed, the cue slips through the grip hand to some degree (a "throw" or "release and catch").
Not clear. It may be that it's easier to use a slip stroke if the weight is more forward since the initial grip is forward. Or maybe it's the other way around.
With all do respect, by your description, you do not have a slip stroke.
For the slip stroke, I found it easier to maintain stability when the weight is resting on my bridge hand as the grip hand slides back – that's how I used to do it. Not sure if that's the 'classic' way of doing it.
For the stroke slip, it was easier for me if the balance was closer to the hand; like a tossing motion. From my own experience, getting the optimum weight distribution (within the context of your stance) was important if the technique was to be effective – it had to be a smooth pendulum-like motion in both cases, where the cue is doing most of the work.
If set up properly, it was an easy way for me to get a little more action on the cue ball with relatively little action from my arm – basically, it was easier to keep the stroke straight while still having a fair bit of power.
But I changed to a more textbook stroke in recent years and my new stroke worked well enough that I found no reason to use it anymore. Maybe when I'm older and have trouble maintaining accuracy with power shots, I suppose.