I couldn't agree more. I just posted on the 14.1 forum questioning the decision. I feel bad for everyone involved, especially some friends who traveled to the event for the primary purpose of watching the 14.1 finals. From someone outside looking in, this seems more of a nuisance for the DCC than benefit. My guess is they get little financial gain from it, therefore it doesn't figure in the big scheme of things.
Straight Pool Challenge High Run Updates?
- Thread starter ChrisinNC
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I couldn't agree more. I just posted on the 14.1 forum questioning the decision. I feel bad for everyone involved, especially some friends who traveled to the event for the primary purpose of watching the 14.1 finals. From someone outside looking in, this seems more of a nuisance for the DCC than benefit. My guess is they get little financial gain from it, therefore it doesn't figure in the big scheme of things.
We had hoped to have four tables continuously for the challenge. The very large turnout for the standard events seemed to make that impossible. The main result of this was that the players were not able to take as many turns as they wanted (and maybe had on their entry sheet) and maybe slightly fewer entries were sold when players saw that they wouldn't get to play anyway.
The problem with running the 14.1 playoff tournament is that all of the finalists are still in the main events. Their schedules are unknown until each round of draws which only happen after each round is done. Several years the 14.1 finals were after the nine ball finals, early on Sunday morning.
Here are the results for the four days and over-all...
![CropperCapture[3].png](https://forums.azbilliards.com/data/attachments/354/354046-4bb8772062ab3e2c5a703e39f6c99e50.jpg?hash=S7h3IGKrPi "CropperCapture[3].png")
![CropperCapture[4].png](https://forums.azbilliards.com/data/attachments/354/354047-f79d12ee1fba68d8e190ca67f71c9777.jpg?hash=950S7h-6aN "CropperCapture[4].png")
Boy if those are not compelling reasons to move this tournament elsewhere, I don't know what is. And the perfect spot for relocation is the US 9-Ball Open. Why - 1) You have Cue-Masters in your backyard or you get 4 additional tables in another hotel room because the US Open always knows what their table requirements are; either way that solves your table issues. 2) There is a lot more player downtime at the Open to allow this event to function as designed (including giving players ample opportunity to qualify) and be finished prior to the last rounds of the Open. 3) The field of pro players is probably better than DCC (easily determined by an analysis of entrants). 4) The American 14.1 Championship is played the week earlier and that always draws the best 14.1 players to the Virginia area. Virtually that entire field moves on to the Open.
It's time to give up on the DCC. They've already given up on you.
Relocation of the George Fels Memorial should be given serious consideration because these problems are not going to go away under the current conditions.
The shelfs looked like they were very deep also. Are they the same as the tables downstairs or different ?
That's unfortunate but it's still a great event and thanks for putting in the time to organize it. It's a rare opportunity to see players from all over the world play the game.
I'm not surprised to see Chinakhov do well. He has a high gear.
Very disappointing to hear. Seems like they could cut down the qualifying to one day instead of four, only allow 10 attempts per $100 entry, and only allow each player one entry instead of unlimited entries. The top players will still end up with the highest runs, even though the high runs may not be as high.
Then you could hold the entire 16 player single elimination tournament in the next two days - 2 rounds the first day played on 4 tables in 3 sessions, then the semi-finals and finals the second day (3 sessions), needing only 1 table. That way, the tournament including the qualifying would basically be over with in 3 days - before they start the 9-ball competition.
Good points and this is mentioned often. If you are to compare than using similar balls. very slow nap cloth, cushions with less response and eliminate cue and cue tip technology and low deflection shafts to make it as much as it was when all the old players played on in the 1940s-1970s it would be legit and fun to see what would happen. The biggest issue is getting Brunswick Billiards to help out and supply any tables would be impossible.
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I understand the disappointment and can empathize. However, If folks like you give up on 14.1, then it will surely die. I really enjoy the game, such as it continues to exist, even if it is an endangered species. Take the banks event for example. It IS actually one of the 3 main DCC events and a PPV spectator such as myself only got to see exactly 2 matches for the entirety of the event...the semi's and the final. Now that's pretty sad, IMO. They gave preference to the Bigfoot 10 ball event, and I guess that's what sells, but neither the 14.1 event nor the Bigfoot event are core events of the DCC.
The reality is that the DCC has done a great job forming a nucleus of pool, but due to lack of resources it can't excel at delivering an exceptional pool experience for fans of specific disciplines, especially outside of the core 3 events. Having said that, the devoted donors, coordinators and sponsors of events like the 14.1 challenge have done a fabulous job keeping the discipline on the radar and creating exposure to the game for folks like me who would otherwise have none.
i didn't say anything about "giving up on 14.1"!
what i said was if this kind of thing continues, i would be disinclined to start giving money to the DCC Challenge.
what i said was if this kind of thing continues, i would be disinclined to start giving money to the DCC Challenge.
Seems like the fairest way to split it up would be based on the high runs. The higher the run the greater the percentage. Why else are they trying to make a high run if a run over 200 is only worth the same as a low 100 ball run. That seems a bit unfair to me to the players who have excelled this week. It could also spell the end of the 14.1 Challenge.
Yes,I absolutely agree with you. It will be impossible with the current conditions to play 14.1 the way it was meant to be.
Maybe mimicking the Mosconi 526 table conditions is a bit of a stretch (but wouldn't it be fun to see what these guys could do on it?), but in the very least, a diamond table with league cut pockets (4.75") would present enough options for these monsters to set some really high runs.
If imagine we would see some 300's and maybe even 400's.
I just look at how sports evolve with equipment as a natural human progression. But at least in other sports the playing surface/dimensions stay the same.
In tennis, the rackets got lighter, stronger, and more advanced but they kept the court the same width and nets the same height.
I always thought it was funny how we change the table dimensions in pool and then compare to the history of the sport. The only other sport/game that does that is golf. But from what I gather, at least the holes are the same diameter. It just can't be done without using the same tables as the old timers.
Well, no, actually....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s9HKnVjd48
Although it seems that most holes follow the diameter of the original hole cutter since the middle 1800s.
According to Paul Runyan, who would know and from whom I was lucky to get a lesson from while he was still alive, back in the 1930s they experimented with a larger golf hole to reduce the advantage of players with weak swings but great putting and short game. The actual impact was the exact opposite of what they intended. The larger hole magnified the short game wizard's advantage because great putters barely missed much more often than bad putters do.
Are you aware of the European golf ball that was still in common usage until the 1970's? It was slightly smaller than the American ball. Not sure who that gave an advantage to, but it definitely would go in the hole easier. I played with them a few times when I was a teenager.
Yes, I saw that before Bob. Trying to open the game up to amateurs and make it "easier".
I'm still advocating for the 14.1 challenge to be played with the same dimensions as this....
https://youtu.be/Er7In9iJ5wM
Look at the size of those pockets. Made for an exciting championship. Would make for a gripping Derby 14.1 challenge. How many do you think Dennis would run on that table?
When I first started playing golf in the late 70s, both 1.62" and 1.68" diameter golf balls were in circulation. They always reckoned the 1.62" were better for links golf as they were not a badly affected by wind. I think it was around 1982 that the larger ball became mandatory in Europe. Funnily enough, the old standard was 1.62oz and 1.62"
Originally though the smaller ball was the only size, the larger ball was introduced in the US in the 1940s.
(God I know some random shit hahah)
When I first started playing golf in the late 70s, both 1.62" and 1.68" diameter golf balls were in circulation. They always reckoned the 1.62" were better for links golf as they were not a badly affected by wind. I think it was around 1982 that the larger ball became mandatory in Europe. Funnily enough, the old standard was 1.62oz and 1.62"
Originally though the smaller ball was the only size, the larger ball was introduced in the US in the 1940s.
(God I know some random shit hahah)
So Bobby Jones won all his championships with the smaller ball, correct?
He played with the first wound ball, the Haskell, but it's less clear what size ball he played with on the regular (at least from my google searches). I can tell you the 1.62 diameter ball was popular over seas especially, as someone mentioned for links golf, because it was heavier for it's size and less affected by wind. It can also be hit a greater distance. The disparity didn't end until the size was standardized between the R&A and USGA in 1990. All of the Americans would switch to the small ball at the British Open where it was legal. I think they still sell them in stores even though they aren't legal to play in tournaments etc.
EDIT: Holy thread derail. Sorry about that. I love the history of both pool and golf. Back on topic it's a shame that the 14.1 even ended this way at the Derby this year. I remember thinking the same last year when matches were forfeited. The event obviously draws a lot of interest especially from the players, and from those of who love 14.1 as a game in itself and as the game that is intertwined with the history of the sport. I'd hate to see it disappear from the DCC. Maybe the format could be tweaked somewhat to make it more workable. Can anyone answer why it doesn't start until the Sunday at the DCC instead of starting on Friday when the tournament starts? I always wondered that.
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