State of the Philippene's

[Pangit]

I've never been there but I don't see this as a bad thing if he wants to light a fire under their ass and get them to clean the place up. Boracay has a reputation as a tourist trap, not exactly my favorite kind of place to visit. I'm more the Palawan type.

So, you're pontificating about a place you've never been to. Not surprised. Most of the nicer places in the RP that attracts tourist are tourist traps. Vendors and pulubis everywhere. Try again.

 

[jay helfert]

So, you're pontificating about a place you've never been to. Not surprised. Most of the nicer places in the RP that attracts tourist are tourist traps. Vendors and pulubis everywhere. Try again.

I will pontificate a little more since it seems to please you so much. The Philippine people are some of the warmest, most welcoming people you will find anywhere on planet Earth (and yes, I've been to a lot of places!). They are typically joyful and happy in their daily lives and laughter is their common denominator. Walk through the malls and visit the stores and you will observe playful behavior by the employees. Foreigner or not, they will smile at you and greet you warmly.

They are quick to offer help and render aid if need be. Filipinos are a polite, considerate people and a pleasure for me to be around. True, there are some bad guys, but we can find them anywhere we go. I have so far had no trouble avoiding them in my many travels there. Overall, I find the Philippines to be much safer than most American cities, large or small. The more friendly environment over there is a big plus for me.

I do agree that their politics is rife with corruption, but by appearances Duterte is doing his best to clean it up. He is draining the swamp of the most corrupt of the bunch. Their political system is a model of ours, with a Congress, a court system and a President. It remains to be seen what will happen in the next election, but it's very doubtful given his popularity that Duterte will not get re-elected.

Now make that ugly face of yours and do your best to tear me down.

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

I will pontificate a little more since it seems to please you so much. The Philippine people are some of the warmest, most welcoming people you will find anywhere on planet Earth (and yes, I've been to a lot of places!). They are typically joyful and happy in their daily lives and laughter is their common denominator. Walk through the malls and visit the stores and you will observe playful behavior by the employees. Foreigner or not, they will smile at you and greet you warmly.

They are quick to offer help and render aid if need be. Filipinos are a polite, considerate people and a pleasure for me to be around. True, there are some bad guys, but we can find them anywhere we go. I have so far had no trouble avoiding them in my many travels there. Overall, I find the Philippines to be much safer than most American cities, large or small. The more friendly environment over there is a big plus for me.

I do agree that their politics is rife with corruption, but by appearances Duterte is doing his best to clean it up. He is draining the swamp of the most corrupt of the bunch. Their political system is a model of ours, with a Congress, a court system and a President. It remains to be seen what will happen in the next election, but it's very doubtful given his popularity that Duterte will not get re-elected.

Now make that ugly face of yours and do your best to tear me down.

First, I don't know much about the Philippines and I've never been there.

I'm just really amazed that Duterte has the support he does. Extrajudicial killing is a very bad precedent to set in the name of "cleaning things up" or draining the swamp. There MUST be due process otherwise no one will be safe in the long run. Just because you feel you're safe because you're not doing anything wrong doesn't mean you ARE safe. There's nothing stopping them from killing innocent people, political enemies, journalists, etc. From (the little bit) that I've seen, that's happening too. You shouldn't be so flippant to the fact that innocent people are being caught up in this purge.

The current political structure means nothing if the laws of the land are not followed, and especially by the people that were put in charge to enforce them! It is just insane to me that the Filipino people (and apparently many Americans) don't see the almost inevitable rise of a dictatorship to come out of this. It sounds like that's what everyone wants really. I'm just amazed really.

 

[uwate]

although it is over a year old now, this is an excellent read.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...drigo-duterte-philippines-drugs-killings.html

 

[JC]

First, I don't know much about the Philippines and I've never been there.

I'm just really amazed that Duterte has the support he does. Extrajudicial killing is a very bad precedent to set in the name of "cleaning things up" or draining the swamp. There MUST be due process otherwise no one will be safe in the long run. Just because you feel you're safe because you're not doing anything wrong doesn't mean you ARE safe. There's nothing stopping them from killing innocent people, political enemies, journalists, etc. From (the little bit) that I've seen, that's happening too. You shouldn't be so flippant to the fact that innocent people are being caught up in this purge.

The current political structure means nothing if the laws of the land are not followed, and especially by the people that were put in charge to enforce them! It is just insane to me that the Filipino people (and apparently many Americans) don't see the almost inevitable rise of a dictatorship to come out of this. It sounds like that's what everyone wants really. I'm just amazed really.

Duterte has a history of cleaning things up. He presided over the rehabilitation of Davao, one of the filthiest and corrupt cities in PI. He cleaned that up and folks pretty much agreed no one was killed that didn't need killing. People in PI know who's doing what. Some of my wife's relatives could have gone either way if there was money to be made without consequence but now they are scared straight. It works.

Davao is now one of the cleanest and safest places in PI and he's not there anymore dictating anything to anyone. Now he's using the same techniques on a broader scale. And it's working. That's why they love him.

JC

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

Duterte has a history of cleaning things up. He presided over the rehabilitation of Davao, one of the filthiest and corrupt cities in PI. He cleaned that up and folks pretty much agreed no one was killed that didn't need killing. People in PI know who's doing what. Some of my wife's relatives could have gone either way if there was money to be made without consequence but now they are scared straight. It works.

Davao is now one of the cleanest and safest places in PI and he's not there anymore dictating anything to anyone. Now he's using the same techniques on a broader scale. And it's working. That's why they love him.

JC

I'm sure it works, that's not the problem.

The problem is that they are breaking the laws that are in place to protect innocent people from being falsely accused and punished in order to "clean things up". If you're ok with that, then why have those laws and procedures in place at all? Just leave it up to the death squads to figure out who the bad guys are and hope no innocent people are caught up by accident. I would not want that here in the US.

If history is any indicator, this isn't something you'll be able to reign in when it no longer suites your needs. I know he's popular, but that doesn't make it right. Lots of people are dying.

Don't you see that they are breaking laws in order to punish (kill) people that "they say" are breaking the law, without going to trial to determine guilt or innocence. That's a huge long term problem that you will have to deal with eventually. What's his next target going to be after he's wiped out all the drug pushers (and users)?

 

[JC]

I'm sure it works, that's not the problem.

The problem is that they are breaking the laws that are in place to protect innocent people from being falsely accused and punished in order to "clean things up". If you're ok with that, then why have those laws and procedures in place at all? Just leave it up to the death squads to figure out who the bad guys are and hope no innocent people are caught up by accident. I would not want that here in the US.

If history is any indicator, this isn't something you'll be able to reign in when it no longer suites your needs. I know he's popular, but that doesn't make it right. Lots of people are dying.

Don't you see that they are breaking laws in order to punish (kill) people that "they say" are breaking the law, without going to trial to determine guilt or innocence. That's a huge long term problem that you will have to deal with eventually. What's his next target going to be after he's wiped out all the drug pushers (and users)?

Lots of good points. It's a brutal experiment, glad it's not going on here although if it was it would also come with benefits. Lots of career criminals here with "rights" that the world outside their mothers wouldn't miss for a second.

Duterte's history indicates there will likely be no further targets once the mess is adequately cleaned up. I know it's hard for us as Americans to understand a situation like that but my gut tells me when it's all said and done PI will be a better place. The residents believe that too. I guess at some point the ends justify the means.

BTW to your other question. Who's next? Back in Davao when he was mayor it was a cesspool. Littering and loitering started carrying heavy jail time. Both problems magically disappeared. I wish he would do something about the "homeless" in my town. Funny how folks start to get along with their long lost relatives when they simply cannot live on the street.

JC

 

[iusedtoberich]

Jay or anyone else in the know, did Marlon Manalo turn out to be good for the Philippines, or a corrupt politician? What position did he attain? Is he still in office? I'm purely curious from a pool player perspective.

 

[westcoast]

I'm sure it works, that's not the problem.

The problem is that they are breaking the laws that are in place to protect innocent people from being falsely accused and punished in order to "clean things up". If you're ok with that, then why have those laws and procedures in place at all? Just leave it up to the death squads to figure out who the bad guys are and hope no innocent people are caught up by accident. I would not want that here in the US.

If history is any indicator, this isn't something you'll be able to reign in when it no longer suites your needs. I know he's popular, but that doesn't make it right. Lots of people are dying.

Don't you see that they are breaking laws in order to punish (kill) people that "they say" are breaking the law, without going to trial to determine guilt or innocence. That's a huge long term problem that you will have to deal with eventually. What's his next target going to be after he's wiped out all the drug pushers (and users)?

I agree with your sentiments. The rule of law should not be so flippantly disregarded. It is a really bad precedent. It very rarely, if ever, works out well.

Also, I get that people want to clean up the drug problem, but I don't think it is morally justifiable to kill people for being involved in it- especially the users. I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for the dealers, but I don't think they should be killed either and certainly not drug users. It is just morally wrong.

 

[jasonlaus]

Sometimes violence needs to be dealt with, with extreme violence.
Jason

 

[jay helfert]

First, I don't know much about the Philippines and I've never been there.

I'm just really amazed that Duterte has the support he does. Extrajudicial killing is a very bad precedent to set in the name of "cleaning things up" or draining the swamp. There MUST be due process otherwise no one will be safe in the long run. Just because you feel you're safe because you're not doing anything wrong doesn't mean you ARE safe. There's nothing stopping them from killing innocent people, political enemies, journalists, etc. From (the little bit) that I've seen, that's happening too. You shouldn't be so flippant to the fact that innocent people are being caught up in this purge.

The current political structure means nothing if the laws of the land are not followed, and especially by the people that were put in charge to enforce them! It is just insane to me that the Filipino people (and apparently many Americans) don't see the almost inevitable rise of a dictatorship to come out of this. It sounds like that's what everyone wants really. I'm just amazed really.

The corrupt politicians I talked about were all about stealing government funds for their personal use. Some of them may have been supporting or working with drug cartels as well. Duterte gave them a chance to stop or be dealt with. Most of them did but a few who had their own private militias thought they were above the law and their well protected estates were raided and they were taken down. Duterte has good intelligence on who is doing what and he actually invited several hundred mayors of Philippine cities to a meeting in Manila soon after he became President. At that meeting Duterte made a speech where he warned the corrupt mayors (in the minority) to cease all their illicit activities. He actually had all their names and let them know he would be watching them. Most complied and a few didn't. Let's just say their tenure as Mayor came to an abrupt end.

In the case of the drug dealers, most are also given a chance to surrender when confronted by police and many choose to shoot it out with the cops, knowing that they face life imprisonment. All the major drug dealers over there are well armed and most are killers themselves. What isn't talked about as much are the thousands of drug dealers who have been arrested and imprisoned. Duterte's tactic is to give all offenders a warning first. If they quit selling drugs or give themselves up they won't be killed. If they resist then all bets are off.

 

[Black-Balled]

Jay or anyone else in the know, did Marlon Manalo turn out to be good for the Philippines, or a corrupt politician? What position did he attain? Is he still in office? I'm purely curious from a pool player perspective.

Great question. I hope it gets addressed.

 

[jay helfert]

Jay or anyone else in the know, did Marlon Manalo turn out to be good for the Philippines, or a corrupt politician? What position did he attain? Is he still in office? I'm purely curious from a pool player perspective.

Last I heard he is still holding political office and is in favor for being an honest politician.

 

[Pangit]

The corrupt politicians I talked about were all about stealing government funds for their personal use. Some of them may have been supporting or working with drug cartels as well. Duterte gave them a chance to stop or be dealt with. Most of them did but a few who had their own private militias thought they were above the law and their well protected estates were raided and they were taken down. Duterte has good intelligence on who is doing what and he actually invited several hundred mayors of Philippine cities to a meeting in Manila soon after he became President. At that meeting Duterte made a speech where he warned the corrupt mayors (in the minority) to cease all their illicit activities. He actually had all their names and let them know he would be watching them. Most complied and a few didn't. Let's just say their tenure as Mayor came to an abrupt end.

In the case of the drug dealers, most are also given a chance to surrender when confronted by police and many choose to shoot it out with the cops, knowing that they face life imprisonment. All the major drug dealers over there are well armed and most are killers themselves. What isn't talked about as much are the thousands of drug dealers who have been arrested and imprisoned. Duterte's tactic is to give all offenders a warning first. If they quit selling drugs or give themselves up they won't be killed. If they resist then all bets are off.

You don't know what you're typing about Jay. Duterte isn't corrupt? :rotflmao1: He's just like almost every other Philippine politician.

He does fancy himself as a new age Marcos...if that's any consolation. :grin-devilish:

 

[Ken_4fun]

Seriously, I have a question.

Is it bad to call someone from the Philippines a Pinoy?

In this politically correct world, I was afraid to say it.

Isnt that terrible?

Ken

 

[pt109]

Seriously, I have a question.

Is it bad to call someone from the Philippines a Pinoy?

In this politically correct world, I was afraid to say it.

Isnt that terrible?

Ken

I just asked....Pinoy is quite acceptable.
...sorta like calling a Canadian a Canuck...we like it

 

[JC]

You don't know what you're typing about Jay. Duterte isn't corrupt? :rotflmao1: He's just like almost every other Philippine politician.

He does fancy himself as a new age Marcos...if that's any consolation. :grin-devilish:

So did you and your cronies there quit smoking hash or not?

Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?Bad boys!

JC

 

[pt109]

To me, this thread is proof that the land of Reyes is always pool related.
...if this thread was about any other country, it would’ve been moved to NPR.

 

[overlord]

The US is who set the cabal of criminals up in power in the Philippines. We used that island to traffic guns, drugs and underaged hookers for years. We used the same tactics there as we used in the Iran - Contra scandal and the same tactics we were employing in Benghazi. This crap has been going on since the Spanish-American war when we took the Philippines from Spain.

We used them and held them down for years. We actually paid workers $0.67 a day for labor on US vessels (1988). It broke my heart to see that level of corruption and the absolute lack of compassion for humans.

God bless Duterte for taking charge and making the tough decisions. In fact, he broke off contact with the US when the criminal bamster tried to stop Duterte. That's why Duterte called him the "Son of a Wh@re". After Trump got elected and Sessions was appointed AG, Duterte was one of the first foreign leaders to meet with the Trump admin. He immediately went home and shut down the CIA ran whore houses and partnered with Russia for defense. (read below)

Russia-Philippines Defense Ties to Get a New Boost
https://thediplomat.com/2017/10/russia-philippines-defense-ties-to-get-a-new-boost/



In fact, one of the theories that I personally believe is that Paddock and his Filipina girlfriend were running drugs, guns and human trafficking for the CIA. They recently arrested and charged his brother with child porn and drug trafficking. (read below)

Las Vegas Shooter Stephen Paddock Ran CIA Child Trafficking Ring?
https://www.goodreads.com/author_bl...tephen-paddock-ran-cia-child-trafficking-ring

Las Vegas Shooter Stephen Paddock Ran CIA Child Trafficking Ring
https://www.patreon.com/posts/las-vegas-ran-15014922

Stephen Paddock's brother 'is suspected drug dealer wanted by police'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...olice-claims-las-vegas-shooting-a7984851.html

Vegas Gunman Stephen Paddock’s Brother Arrested in Child Porn Probe
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ck-s-brother-custody-child-porn-probe-n811461



I love the Philippines and its people. I place the Filipinos on the same level as the US citizens. I spent a lot of time there and do miss it. I hope that soon the US backed corruption and oppression will be swept from that great island. I hope it will return to being safe for tourists again. I'll be retiring soon and would like to visit my second favorite country in the world one more time.

How can a country who backs pool as its national sport be wrong?

Drain the swamp Duerte!

There may be some accurate information in your post but it may be beyond my purview to say what is accurate.

That being said, the US after the Spanish- American war was torn, about what it would do with the Philippines. It kind of segued into the policy of keeping the Islands.

There was a general outcry against imperialism so many rules were put into place to limit what Americans could own there. Missionaries from the US went there and taught in schools. Many smart educated young women from the US went there and taught school.

Now after the SA war, the US did fight the insurgency of Emilio Aguinaldo. EA wanted to free his people form foreign rule.

This war in the PI was very bloody and harsh but in the end the US won. The PI when it was under the control of the US had a very thriving economy and as I've said Americans were strictly limited as to how much Americans could own in the PI.
Basically they couldn't own much.

Its was not until after the US liberated the PI from the Japanese and they were granted their freedom from the US that the rules changes after 1946.

The Bell Act of 1946 changed the former playing field. The Philippines cost the US much more than they ever could make out of products like Copra and Philippine Mahogany.

The cost of defending an imperial outpost in the S. E. Asian Pacific, far outweighed any economic benefits. The US could have purchased any of the raw materials that the PI had to offer without spending all the cash on fortifying islands like Corregidor in the Bay of Manila.

Basically against Japanese invasion the Islands were helpless even after a lot of money was spent.

The Japanese were not a very diplomatic group and its no secret the Pinoys did not enjoy them as rulers.

My impression in vacationing in the PI around 15 years ago was that the Pinoys like Americans and US culture. I think Americans like the Pinoys as well.

I've been to Borocay and it was a lot of fun when I was there and I've been to Palawan too.

Most of the possessions of the former Spanish empire are usually ruled by an oligarchal class.

 

[spartan]

Q: How to tell when a politician is lying? A: His lips move

In Death Wish 4, "good guy" Mr White provided resources and intel to vigilante Paul Kersey to wipe out the drug cartels. Of cos, there is the plot twist near the end and Mr White turned out to be not such a good guy.
Orson Welles once said "If you want a happy ending, it depends on where you stop the story".
I think if we stop the Duterte story at point when he was Davao mayor, you may have a happy ending.
If you stop the story now, it will be a mixed ending. Particularly, disturbing are 2 developments:
a) Duterte going after and terminating drug users / addicts. By all means eliminate the drug cartels, pushers , gangs. But not drug users.
b) allegations of Duterte junior, Paolo Duterte being involved with underworld gangs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paolo_Duterte#Controversies

By and large, politicians are dirty basxxxxx.
If you are stuck on an island with a poisonous snake and a politician and you have a gun with 2 bullets, what do you do ?
Yes, shoot 2 bullets into the politician to make sure he stays down. Don't worry about the snake - it is harmless compared to the politician