Alternate break is ruining pool
- Thread starter Hobo
- Start date
I was a winner once in an alternate break format and you are correct. It was a slugfest.
Races to 9 and as I recall, I ran 6 of 9 racks I broke, to take t the W.
Races to 9 and as I recall, I ran 6 of 9 racks I broke, to take t the W.
I agree with this. But I like a variety of formats being played. It DOESNT have to all be the same! Keep it interesting. If winner breaks was the only game around, it would get very tedious and uninteresting after a while. While we are at it, let's get rid of 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball, one pocket, bank pool, and rotation. From now on the only thing you are allowed to play is straight pool.
another way of looking at it.
you're on the table at a bar say a Friday night. you just won. next person comes up, puts in the quarters, balls com out then racks. then that person asks, "so can I break?" what would your answer be?
you're on the table at a bar say a Friday night. you just won. next person comes up, puts in the quarters, balls com out then racks. then that person asks, "so can I break?" what would your answer be?
Alternative is ok, but loser breaks is better, imho, for that very reason.
Jeff Livingston
The goal of the game (the rack) is to win the rack. The goal of the game is not earn the right to break in the next game. That is the purpose of the lag.....
Yes, a lag to determine who breaks first.
I've read through every one of these posts, and i got to ask....are ALL of you blind? You really want to know why everyone isn't stringing rack togeter....LOOK at what the balls are being racked with!!!! NO racking AID! NO MAGIC RACK! NO racking aids what-so-ever! I've been saying for YEARS the racking aids used today are killing this game, because the use of them makes a player LOOK as if they play better than the really are! Racking aids are a handicap for the breaker, it's sole use is to provide a perfect break, rack after rack! NO racking aids, NO high break and run packs!!!
Yep I'm all for a variety of formats. The argument, that alternate breaks is "killing" pool gets me though.
Want to see how strong the racking aids are, go back and watch the race to 100, between SVB and Alex on the Diamond with the Fatboy rails, 4 1/8" pockets!!!! SVB ran 2 6pks, 1 7pk, and i believe Alex had 3 5pks!!!
And that my friend is where the winner break mentality came from. In a bar.
Pool was bigger in the winner breaks days.
First of all, let's not turn winner breaks into an automatic blanking of opponents. This is the exception, not the rule. For decades with winner breaks, there were tons of close games, and lots of counter-play in matches. It is rare to actually see someone get locked out.
The problem is, at least on occasion you get to see something exciting or great. Like a string of racks, or a huge comeback. With alternate break, everything is homogenized. Attrition pool is what it should be called. Boring.
Alternate break is one step away from being worthy of postal matches or long distance matches. Just create another arbitrary rule that any safety or miss is the end of the rack entirely. Two players can then compete on a break and run percentage contest.
Next, Football is NOT turn-based!!! When one team is on offense, the other is actively playing defense and has the ability to score at any time on any play. Pool is not played simultaneously by both players at the same time. When Efren plays a safe, Earl cannot jump to the table real fast, shoot the cue ball before it stops rolling and make a ball to then take over.
When one team in football scores, they technically still have possession of the ball for the extra point or conversion, and they STILL have possession of the ball on the kick off. It's technically their ball.
The rules state they have to kick it toward the opponent a minimum of 10 yards. It says NOTHING about the opponent being guaranteed an opportunity to possess the ball. The purpose of a kick-off is NOT to ensure the other team gets a turn, it's to put the ball back into play. Albeit, with a very strong chance the other team will get the ball back to create offensive counter play. But it's not a guarantee. Most teams kick it deep to play the percentages, not because the intent is to ensure they opponent has a turn too.
They can do an onside kick. They can fumble it.
If football were like alternate breaks. They would remove the kick off entirely, and after a score, the other team gets the ball at the 25 yard line every time. That would be awful, as thanks to clock management - there would be an end to many exciting games. Or, keep the kick off, but institute punt rules. You cannot take possession on an untouched ball.
Yet, with alternate break, players are guaranteed opportunities at table that are completely unearned through MERIT.
Depends. A good bar will have "winner stays" posted or at least understood. My answer would be "winner breaks". Winner breaks is the most sensible thing that has ever been suggested in bars because it prevents so many problems from happening.
If the same player wanted to play me afterwards in some kind of race, either somewhere else or in the bar if it had emptied out then I would prefer alternate break but would be open to winner breaks. In a tournament, I would expect to play alternate break but then I wouldn't be in a bar on a Friday night and wouldn't be thinking about going down in YouTube history if I ran a pack.
When have you ever seen someone using a magic rack in a bar playing pool? One time when i was out playing pool at Freddies Casino where i built and installed the 4 King Cobra 9fts, i broke and ran 7 racks of 8 ball, had a hell of an audience watching, must have been at least 100 prople in the pool room area of the casino, playing on the other 3 tables are well. It was around 11pm or so, and the quarters lined up to challenge my table was stacked up in little 75. piles the length of the entire side rail by the coin chute. Everytime i ran a rack, a couple more people put up their quarters to challenge. I had been playing since about 5pm and hadn't lost a game to anyone. After running the 7th rack, there just wasn't much room to stand around the table anymore because there was so many people. Well, in my next and last game, i broke and ran to the 8 but had no shot, so i tried to at least move the 8 up against one of my opponents balls as a way of at least getting another shot, BUT one of my opponents balls kicked the 8 into the side pocket on the same shot, so i lost and my opponent never even had to shoot a ball! The whole croud of watchers was cheering and yelling loud as hell becasue my reign over the table had come to an end....and end it did, because though i didn't mind losing, there was no way i was waiting around for the next 2 hours to challenge the table again....so i left and went home. There has never been alternating breaks, or racking aids in the bars, all that shit comes from the tournament players that need a handicap in order to compete against the better players, as well as shorter races.
Pool was popular 100 years ago and that's about it.
I've made my case for loser breaks, but thanks for responding with a well thought-out post, I appreciate it.
Jeff Livingston
And at the same token, opponent racks is a problem also. Then you have players excessively checking racks, asking and getting multiple re racks. And complaints about how the opponent is racking. I've seen it many times.... In my local tournaments, as well as pro tournaments.
That's why I like some different flavors added. Some if not most of the rules that are advocated come from bar room bangers. Bar room rules that were designed to keep drunks from fighting each other. I like to play tournaments with different ways to do it.
Let's get rid of ball In hand while we are at it.
There you go Hobo.... A new topic for you to stir up the outhouse.
Barbox, correct? I need to watch it again its been a while. Great match.
Pure bar pool is winner breaks allways!!! And challenger racks....always!!! I don't care what bar you go into in this country. There is no way in hell these babyass tournament rules are ever going to bleed over into the bar industry....EXCEPT when they start running tournaments and the players want to start mimicking the big boy tournaments, and the better players start complaining that a race to 1 or 2 is no good, needs to be at least a race to 3 and double elimination!!! The bars around here don't have the same winners week after week when they play races to 1 double elimination, and the tournaments are full, but the crybabies that insist on longer races are no where to be seen!!!
Race-to-1???? Are your serious?? Been at this game for almost 40yrs and have never heard of or seen a race to one. Not much time to dick around that's for sure. Would make a good side event to replace that boring-ass 14.1 deal at DerbyCity.