Stolen league money

Chuck Fields said:
Im not accusing anyone of anything, but Im closer to 50/50 on that one. If he was indeed robbed, yes it was likely someone who knew him and knew the money was there. Police reports prove nothing other than one was filed. Anyone could break out a window, ransack their own house, and file a police report stating they had whatever stolen. The existence of a report itself means less than one would think....
. :thumbup:
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I agree to an extent; however, a police report means there is actually a police investigation.
* The amount falls under a felony offence
* The fact that the money belongs to other falls under embezzlement

As a LO I would jump at a opportunity to clear my name and the polygraph questions are quite simple.
I even understand that a polygraph is not always conclusive; however, I wouldn't understand a refusal to take one...
After all, we are talking about $19,000 of other people's money here.
It sucks for all involved, even with a cleared poly there would still be an ugly appearance...
However, the funds were entrusted to the LO; he should be sitting at the police station requesting an investigation and a self polygraph.

Regardless...

The loss/thief of the funds does not alleviate the LO from payment, he owns this.
Loss/Thief of money for a mortgage, car payment, electric bill does not negate the debt; companies my work vs cutting off you lights but the debt is still there.
 
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Z-Nole said:
Being bonded is a great idea, but seriously, what's the percentage of average pool players and LO's that can even get bonded? I'd put the over under at 3. And take the under.
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And what %.of those are positioned to provide perfect administrative services...?

The group shrinks.

Seriously- you guess with all your easy solutions are fooling yourselves that they are reasonably effective AND cost effective.
 
trentfromtoledo said:
My business account at my credit union is 100% free. Now the accounting part should not be to difficult. As I mentioned before: there should be some requirements of LO's to be able to pay no matter what. Lets not forget they make money and risk is part of business.

Trent from Toledo
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The league (business) account at my bank is only free because I maintain a required minimum using my own funds as needed.

As far as your last statement, this isn't always the case; my league is 100% return.
The time spent by myself and the other LO is donated and we even pay our own weekly dues.
We didn't like how other leagues were being operated so we started and sanctioned our own.
 
Black-Balled said:
And what %.of those are positioned to provide perfect administrative services...?

The group shrinks.

Seriously- you guess with all your easy solutions are fooling yourselves that they are reasonably effective AND cost effective.
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I'm taking the under there too.

I don't think you're speaking directly to me, because the only solution I've offered is put the damn money in the bank, which is both cost effective (price of doing business) and reasonably effective. But I get what you're saying. Sometimes *****es are just thieves.
 
I know it's harsh, but I still see this very simply. He was trusted with the money and failed to protect it. How he protects it is his choice. A bank seems like an obvious good choice, a safe that can't be carried away seems like a reasonable but not zero risk choice. A little portable safe seems reckless and risky. A $20 grand balance will get you free checking/savings anywhere in the country. A few dollars a month will get you a safety deposit box and it could still be in all 20's and accessible any weekday with no notice. It's almost a gamble which starts to put this in the same ballpark as him having lost it in a poker game.

Of course if it really was stolen it is very different than him gambling it away but I just know if it was me, my only reaction would be that I have a very clear obligation to replace the money. It would be me that was robbed, not 100 other people.
 
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Poodle of Doom said:
Maybe post a copy of te report when you find it?



Trent said exactly what I was going to. At that, I'm not pointing out something after the fact. No one stores $19,000 in their home. Most people put it in a bank. Not a suggestion. Fact.
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Was it not made clear that the money was where it was because the dude was preparing payouts?

The prep of payouts takes time and must be done correctly. How long does it take? You seem to be quite informed on the matter.
 
easy-e said:
I agree. Easier said than done. From my understanding, he is not a wealthy man.
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Not sure if its been asked but does he happen to have a teenager at home?

Someone who knew the money was there took it. If its not the LO its someone he told about doing payouts or who was in the house and saw the cash.

When I was a kid in boy scouts I slang fundraiser popcorn like Ice T slang that rock. I was an earner. One year the adult in charge of keeping all the money came in and told us his dirtbag older son had stole it all and disappeared. It was about $5k. He made noises about making it right but of course that never happened and him and his younger son faded away quickly.

Hope you find a way to get your dough.
 
Bottom line that we know:

Insurance will NOT cover this.
He does not have the money to pay back.
Small claims might not even work as it most likely exceeds the limit of "small" claims, but every state differs.
If he does not have the money, and most likely never will, it's a waste of time and effort.

I'd say, make him take a lie detector test. He has to at least pay for that. And have 3 folks from league able to watch and obtain the results. If he passes, then you might just have to write this off.

And then form an actual league, with a Pres, VP and treasurer with a bank account that requires 3 of the 3 to sign off to take out any monies to pay bills, payouts, whatever.

Too much money to leave to folks nobody really knows other than "he shoots pretty good pool" ;)
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Bottom line that we know:

Insurance will NOT cover this.
He does not have the money to pay back.
Small claims might not even work as it most likely exceeds the limit of "small" claims, but every state differs.
If he does not have the money, and most likely never will, it's a waste of time and effort.

I'd say, make him take a lie detector test. He has to at least pay for that. And have 3 folks from league able to watch and obtain the results. If he passes, then you might just have to write this off.

And then form an actual league, with a Pres, VP and treasurer with a bank account that requires 3 of the 3 to sign off to take out any monies to pay bills, payouts, whatever.

Too much money to leave to folks nobody really knows other than "he shoots pretty good pool" ;)
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Lie detector test won't prove anything. They are garbage. Would be better off taking whatever money it would cost to do one and giving it to the players. If the guy claims he cant pay it back and the cops can't prove he took it there is nothing to be done but hope whoever is responsible dies from ass cancer.
 
JCIN said:
Lie detector test won't prove anything. They are garbage. Would be better off taking whatever money it would cost to do one and giving it to the players. If the guy claims he cant pay it back and the cops can't prove he took it there is nothing to be done but hope whoever is responsible dies from ass cancer.
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Hire a good P.I..
 
Out of the hundreds of stories of “missing money”, the only one I ever heard of being paid back is by a tour director from Philly. The guys name is Leon. He ran a scratch tour around the year 2000 in Philly. He donkeyied away the end of year event added money that had been accumulating every stop in an Atlantic City casino.

Shockingly, he found the players he owed about 10 years later and paid them.
 
What does a league franchise cost?

100k or 50k ?

Anyway, the BCA needs to sell the league out from under the owner and make the members whole!

Or

Make the members have equity stakes in the league, oust the guy and find someone to run the business...

Either way the BCA and Ozzy have to make a decision and explore the options and desires of the harmed pool players

Kd

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
Not sure why you guys are saying to just move on. I would think a detective wouldn't mind looking into this. The list of names of the people who knew about this money isn't infinite. It's basically the players in the league and family members. This of course is if the LO didn't blow it. They may not see the cash but there's a chance justice could be served.
 
I've filed plenty of police reports over the years and I've always been given a case number right then and there. Every minute that goes by without the LO posting this information points the finger closer to his direction.
 
The only choice is to move on. Everything else is a waste of time, money, energy, and emotion.

If you sue the LO and win, he won’t have the money to pay. Just like Tony Anagoni. And, you’ll be out a ton of time, vacation days, legal bs paperwork and time, to deal with it.

If it really was a thief, and you catch him, what is the recourse? He already spent the money up his nose.

There is no solution. Just give up. And never play in a league again. That’s it.

Every single person on this whole forum has been burned at one point or another in the pool world. We learn, remember the pool bums, remember to post, and keep on grinding.
 
This thread brings back nightmares for me.

I used to run a small square football pool at work. Weekly we played $5/square= $500. For the Super Bowl we amped it up to $50/square= $5000.

Football season 2013 was the worst, lots of late payers and money dragged from week to week. By the time the Super Bowl came around I was frustrated and ready to be finished with the whole season.

In years prior it had taken me roughly a week to pay out after the big game, mostly because (as others have mentioned in this thread) payouts are a chore, can be a real pain in the a**.

But, in February of 2014 I was so done with the whole thing that I paid out promptly. First thing Monday morning, the 3rd, took the envelopes to the restaurant safe.

Three days later, Thursday the 6th, my house was broken into. They stole anything and everything of value and tossed the house as if they were looking for something specific.

To this day I think the theives were a disgruntled ex-employee and her shady boyfriend. And I'm completely convinced they were looking for the Super Bowl cash. No one was ever caught, could've been a coincidence, but I doubt it.

I grew up amongst gamblers and pool players. I know in the grander scheme of things $5k isn't a mountain of money, But I also know the liability would have been mine. Put the shoe on the other foot and I want my money. I'll wait for it on account of circumstances, but I expect to be paid eventually.

Still the thought of other people's money being stolen from my house and being on the hook for that $5k makes me shudder.

The police came, I did have insurance, but how do you tell your agent or the police you also lost gambling money? Something tells me neither agency is coming with a lot of empathy.

Bottom line, the guy holding the money is responsible for the money. Unfortunately, no matter the personal hardship.

Best of luck to you, OP!! I hope you get paid. As for your league operator, if the cash was truly stolen I feel for him, but sadly, it is still his debt, imho.
 
iusedtoberich said:
The only choice is to move on. Everything else is a waste of time, money, energy, and emotion.

If you sue the LO and win, he won’t have the money to pay. Just like Tony Anagoni. And, you’ll be out a ton of time, vacation days, legal bs paperwork and time, to deal with it.

If it really was a thief, and you catch him, what is the recourse? He already spent the money up his nose.

There is no solution. Just give up. And never play in a league again. That’s it.

Every single person on this whole forum has been burned at one point or another in the pool world. We learn, remember the pool bums, remember to post, and keep on grinding.
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Why sue the league operator and exclude the league itself with the big pockets???

Makes no sense! BCA has some liability for this issue and failed to make adequate consumer protections! Plus, they could afford it! Even though the league owner may be broke.

Kd

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
No offense KD, but you are nuts:):):)

CSI won’t do shit. Does the WPA do anything when Barry stiffs the players year after year? No. They only make stupid press releases. How about when the Phillipino promoter in 2008 or so stiffed the payout of the WPA sanctioned world championship, that Efren and Busty boycotted before hand, because they knew the promoter was a bum? Or how about Mackey stiffing all the players for a years worth of tournaments.

Bottom line: Regardless of who is the “regulating body”, they have never done shit when someone steals or donkeys off the cash.
 
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