Stolen league money

[maha]

first off call him and find out about the police report. question him about the details of the robbery. if he shows any hesitation to help you know then he is involved.

if you cant find him or get results go file your own report for the stolen money. maybe do that anyway.
if you have any proof he may be involved give him the choice to pay or you will file criminal charges for the felony.

act quickly or the money may get spent or if a relative has it it may disappear.

 

[GoldCrown]

first off call him and find out about the police report. question him about the details of the robbery. if he shows any hesitation to help you know then he is involved.

if you cant find him or get results go file your own report for the stolen money. maybe do that anyway.
if you have any proof he may be involved give him the choice to pay or you will file criminal charges for the felony.

act quickly or the money may get spent or if a relative has it it may disappear.

If the person is involved with any illegal activity or has a bad rep they most likey will not report the incident.

 

[Johnny Rosato]

Just ask the guy straight up if he stole it. Regardless of what he says, if you and your pals think he did it, then just reimburse the money to the players for him. Offer him a job with room and board in the fresh air of a country farm to pay you back, 19K will take about 10 years at 2080 hours per year, including interest, R&B. And he should be a much healthier and better man for it! Seems pretty simple!
(There's 2 kinds of farms out there, different kind of folks run 'em)

 

[Nostroke]

So the week before payouts, the league is informed that the >$19,000 was burglarized from the league managers house. An apology was issued, and we were told that it would be “made right”. Initial thoughts?

Based on what I know about the league manager, I don’t suspect him of stealing it. Seems like a great guy. I’m very torn on what to make of this.

This girl In my office was treasurer of the bowling league-One day she came to work and announced "I have $20K in league money at my house tonight- I sure hope it isnt stolen" Guess what? it was "stolen" that day/night-nothing else.

She was always broke and continuously gave her money away to "boyfriends"-She even declared bankruptcy-maybe twice although she had a good job w benefits etc.

Anyway the cops grilled her for hours allegedly and she stood up to it and got away with it.She was a fanatical bowler her whole life- She never bowled again and lost 95% of her friends. EVERYONE knew she did it.

PS- She had given oral pleasure to 60% of the police force that investigated her.

 

[westcoast]

I disagree...if it were me as a LO, I would be requesting a poly on myself ASAP.
Hook me up, ask me your questions...

Polygraphs have at least a 20 percent error rate according to some studies.

The league I play in had a similar incident happen during a summer league years ago. The league president claimed something like $3000 was stolen from him. He may have been telling the truth. He never paid it back. As far as I know nobody filed a police report. He did lose the title of league president though for that and other reasons (he was voted out). Sadly he passed away a few years ago.

I think the safe deposit box is a good idea. Of course somebody could still rob you but then it would be obvious who did it.

 

[Black-Balled]

Polygraphs have at least a 20 percent error rate according to some studies

36.4% of statistics are made up!

 

[RiverCity]

Bank account is the way to go, accept check or money order as payment only, and checks are used for payouts. Some folks might not like it, but it eliminates a lot of variables, the biggest IMO is large sums of cash going missing.

Fully disclosure that all banking fees associated to the account will be deducted from the fund as a cost of league operation.

Minor inconvenience versus guaranteed payout. I know which I would prefer. :thumbup:

 

[WoodyMPW]

Should have switched to bitcoin by now.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Bank account is the way to go, accept check or money order as payment only, and checks are used for payouts. Some folks might not like it, but it eliminates a lot of variables, the biggest IMO is large sums of cash going missing.

Fully disclosure that all banking fees associated to the account will be deducted from the fund as a cost of league operation.

Minor inconvenience versus guaranteed payout. I know which I would prefer. :thumbup:

*Disclaimer: I've never been a LO! ha ha.
I like this check idea as well. Its probably less work to write out 50 checks for a large league, then to count out 50 cash piles for 50 players in all different amounts.

The other option that would work in today's world is Venmo or Paypal payments. That might cause trouble with fees if the amounts get too high. And if you try to pay 50 people in one day, the Paypal police might think someone hacked your account and shut it down. It could be made a condition of joining the league that you pay your dues using the app, and collect any prizes using the app. Some older players that are not doing that yet might object, but they will get over it, and get with the times

If there is some sort of end of year league celebration dinner, where the winnings are handed out, and the LO wants the players to have cash in hand to pay for their meals, tip the wait staff, etc....
-Maybe give each player $15 in cash, besides the check or paypal payment. This would keep the total cash money low, so risk of robbery is low.
-If paying the players by paypal, then pay them a few days before the dinner. They can then pay for their dinner with their credit card or cash they already have.
-Or, don't worry about that at all, and if you don't pay the players with cash, they will find a way to pay for the dinner on their own.

All that said, a bank account or paypal still won't stop a thief LO. It will just change the excuse they use when they donkey off the money. The new excuse will be: someone hacked into my paypal. Or, someone stole my checkbook.

 

[pt109]

Bank account is the way to go, accept check or money order as payment only, and checks are used for payouts. Some folks might not like it, but it eliminates a lot of variables, the biggest IMO is large sums of cash going missing.

Fully disclosure that all banking fees associated to the account will be deducted from the fund as a cost of league operation.

Minor inconvenience versus guaranteed payout. I know which I would prefer. :thumbup:

For me, this is the bottom line....bank account with current info available to the players
every month....it ain’t rocket science.

And the league operator owes this money to the players regardless of the circumstances.

The trouble here with going the legal route is that no indidual is owed a substantial sum...
....if they win, it comes to nickels and dimes.
Tony Anagoni lost his court case to the guy who won his grand finale...he still didn’t get paid...
...and I’m pretty sure nobody else did...one player only had $150 coming...didn’t get it.

Danny Harriman still hasn’t got paid...Joshua Filler...no report of getting paid for his Chinese
Eightball win....the Baxter tour ended badly...Camel tour..$600,000 gone south.

Funny thing, the guy who got a lot of steam about stiffing, Kevin Trudeau, was the guy who
eventually came up with the most money.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Funny thing, the guy who got a lot of steam about stiffing, Kevin Trudeau, was the guy who
eventually came up with the most money.

I am pretty sure there were a few pros in the bunch with some "connections" that made it extremely clear it would be in Kevin Trudeau's "best interests" to pay what was owed. Those sorts of connections are generally what it takes to get these sorts of "voluntary" debts paid.

A tournament/league is not like a person stealing directly from a store or something. The law tends not to see them the same way, and frankly doesn't want to house an inmate over what amounts to mismanagement of monetary security (at least claimed by defendant), so if there is any doubt whatsoever that the defendant will be found guilty, it's not worth it to the cops.

Now, when people who are "owed" have friends with sticks and guns, who are fully prepared to use them, it becomes a wholly different story. Might make people uncomfortable to talk about it, but this is the real world here, peeps.

 

[justadub]

Should have switched to bitcoin by now.

That's funny, right there...

 

[Nostroke]

Should have switched to bitcoin by now.

Yeah-You can say that was stolen and no one can investigate!!

 

[SBC]

That means that BCAPL can sue the League Operator for his failure and does not apply to the harmed members!

The league issues operating licenses and they are valuable and the debt obligations can be paid by selling the league Operators license or making the harmed equity owners of the business..


Kd



Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

This man is like Johnny Cochran Jr.

That is what should be done in a perfect world. Sell his franchise out from under him. Problem is the league agreements are written to protect the league. A little bad press is better than paying out 19k.

The league op should just sell it on his own to make amends. The value of the local league has gone down significantly if he chooses to not,make it right.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Bank account is the way to go, accept check or money order as payment only, and checks are used for payouts....

Of course the downside of that is the paper trail which will likely make it clear that the LO did not file the necessary 1099 forms.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

Bank account is the way to go, accept check or money order as payment only, and checks are used for payouts. Some folks might not like it, but it eliminates a lot of variables, the biggest IMO is large sums of cash going missing.

Fully disclosure that all banking fees associated to the account will be deducted from the fund as a cost of league operation.

Minor inconvenience versus guaranteed payout. I know which I would prefer. :thumbup:

DING DING DING, WE HAVE A WINNER!!! Bank, Money Orders/ Checks = These things just make sense.

As for you people out there who think the police give two shits about this: AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.

The whole thing sucks, but, you live and you learn. No one was getting rich off the payout... If this little bit of money hurts you that bad you may want to look into getting another job.

Trent from Toledo

 

[iusedtoberich]

...snip..... If this little bit of money hurts you that bad you may want to look into getting another job.

Trent from Toledo

Money won is twice as sweet as money earned.... but money stolen is 100 times more sour than money lost.... IMO

 

[pt109]

I am pretty sure there were a few pros in the bunch with some "connections" that made it extremely clear it would be in Kevin Trudeau's "best interests" to pay what was owed. Those sorts of connections are generally what it takes to get these sorts of "voluntary" debts paid.

A tournament/league is not like a person stealing directly from a store or something. The law tends not to see them the same way, and frankly doesn't want to house an inmate over what amounts to mismanagement of monetary security (at least claimed by defendant), so if there is any doubt whatsoever that the defendant will be found guilty, it's not worth it to the cops.

Now, when people who are "owed" have friends with sticks and guns, who are fully prepared to use them, it becomes a wholly different story. Might make people uncomfortable to talk about it, but this is the real world here, peeps.

Eric Hjorleifson won a qualifier in a little room up here in Canada...for a tournament that
never got played....he eventually got his $2,000 entry refunded...to me, that means a lot
of other players probably got their money that were absolutely no threat to Trudeau.

Because of the bright promise of the game going in the direction of the PGA, Trudeau
seems to have got the most bitter reaction....but in the realm of stiff artists in the pool
world, Trudeau has been much more honorable than most of them.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Sell his franchise out from under him. ...

I'm pretty sure the BCAPL franchises are non-exclusive so there is nothing to sell. The franchise is not worth $100k or $1000k like some franchises in other leagues. Maybe if they were it might prevent problems like this, but that would be a very large change to the system.

 

[jay helfert]

For me, this is the bottom line....bank account with current info available to the players
every month....it ain’t rocket science.

And the league operator owes this money to the players regardless of the circumstances.

The trouble here with going the legal route is that no indidual is owed a substantial sum...
....if they win, it comes to nickels and dimes.
Tony Anagoni lost his court case to the guy who won his grand finale...he still didn’t get paid...
...and I’m pretty sure nobody else did...one player only had $150 coming...didn’t get it.

Danny Harriman still hasn’t got paid...Joshua Filler...no report of getting paid for his Chinese
Eightball win....the Baxter tour ended badly...Camel tour..$600,000 gone south.

Funny thing, the guy who got a lot of steam about stiffing, Kevin Trudeau, was the guy who
eventually came up with the most money.

It took a couple of years and lots of lies to finally get Truedough to come up with his "payment" plan. He really wanted to stiff everyone but when he realized (thanks to sound legal advice) that accepting money via mail and across state lines is subject to federal investigation and prosecution when not paid out as promised (all well publicized by the IPT) he finally relented. There may have been some additional "pressure" applied by friends of a few players who were owed the largest sums. I cannot talk about this publicly but will just say that Truedough had good reason to be concerned about his personal well being.

As further proof of his misdeeds, I can only point out the ten year federal prison term he is currently serving. There is no parole and at best he can get 15% time off for good behavior. That leaves eight and half years to remain cooped up, which is not all fun and games even at a so called federal reformatory for white collar criminals. You don't get to go home at night!

As far as this situation with the missing funds that were in the care of the LO. If there is one thing I've learned over the years is that when human beings and money are involved anything can and often will happen. You have to look after yourself in ALL such situations! Trust but verify! I'm the kind of guy who asks the uncomfortable questions that sometimes people are reluctant to answer. Currently I have a healthy six figues tied up in various real estate projects and I stay on top of all of them! That said, I got stiffed for 5K on a deal last year. The guy behind the deal turned out to be a well known fraudster who bilked several of the elite in the entertainment industry for large sums of money (millions!). I got off easy.