Ronnie / Fats

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billinboston

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Somewhere in my readings over the years, there was a small writing
About Fats and Ronnie Allen playing back room action in 1970
With Ronnie giving 9-7
Was Fats really good enough to go 9-7 with Ronnie ? And... in 1970 ?
 
billinboston said:
Somewhere in my readings over the years, there was a small writing
About Fats and Ronnie Allen playing back room action in 1970
With Ronnie giving 9-7
Was Fats really good enough to go 9-7 with Ronnie ? And... in 1970 ?
Click to expand...

My guess, if Fatty made the game, Fats most likely won. Even tho he was 20 yr. past his prime shooting age he still could play. During that time, he stuck Richie Florence up Real good. 20K or so. He picked his spots extremely well....and booked very few losers. He had allot of cash and that made many get outta line.
 
I was there to watch.

Ronnie lost.

A few days later he put in with Kelly to give Fats 10/7 and Kelly won.

That should tell you who was the best one pocket player was.

Bill S.
 
bstroud said:
I was there to watch.

Ronnie lost.

A few days later he put in with Kelly to give Fats 10/7 and Kelly won.

That should tell you who was the best one pocket player was.

Bill S.
Click to expand...

Not surprised that Ronnie lost in that spot but am surprised that Kelly gave up that game and won. Fats didn't make many bad games. Sounds like Kelly outran the nuts.
 
Although Fats was not as good as he yapped about, he did have a good game, and I think one pocket was his best game. Not that I was around then to see it, but from what I read over the years.
 
I'm not surprised by this at all. Fats has often been misrepresented as a pure charlatan . He was anything but, he was a showman and a hustler. Fats knew how to make a game and knew how to make money. He was a fearless banker and a strong 1 pocket player. He never had a so called real job and he did well. I remember when I first met him, I would have paid him to just keep talking. He was fun to be around. I think its unfortunate that many of the younger generation have been led to believe that Fatty was not a real pool player. Nothing could be further from the truth. Anyway ya'll have a good day.


Namaste,


Billy Bones
 
Thanks everyone ! From the little I have seem of him, he was excellent at banks, I just thought Ronnie was unbeatable from the many readings about him. Many have said he was the best playing for big money
 
Got to play Fats in a my home town of Bloomington, IL in the late 60's while I was in College. He came into town to promote Montgomery Wards Pools tables...and I was ask to play him in an exhibition match to promote the tables. I played out of the Saratoga Pool Hall about a block away for the store and was well known in town as a baseball player...I played in the minor leagues for a few years...and that helped draw some people in. All I can say is he was a very good player...but even better at the gift of gab. He was really a lot of fun to both play and be around. He never stopped talking. Later...in the late 90's early 2000's I got to be around Ronnie Allen when he came to Arizona to play Scott Frost some one pocket at the Rack and Cue and Main Street Billards in Mesa/Tempe. He was past his prime but one of the most entertaining guys I've ever been around. I can only imagine what a game between the two of them...Fats and Ronnie...would "sound" like. I agree that Fats made great games for himself and he had the money to make his opponent weak...so I can believe he beat Ronnie.
 
I wasn Las Vegas with Eddie Kelly,we played some golf together
in order to set up a game of me playing either pool or golf with some
prospective opponents

At the time the opponents were also playing and watching me play from several fairways over, I was playing a terrible lemon game knowing they were watching with binoculars while I let Eddie beat me.

When the game was over I paid Eddie $50 and when they asked him he said"All I can do is tell you,he lost $50 to me and I can't break 100"


While playing I asked Eddie how he played Ronnie back in the day,he told me he beat Ronnie 9 to 8,or 8 to 7 (my memory is failing)


So I said,so he was a little better one pocket player than you?

Eddie said"I didn't say that"
But you got weight I said,to which he replied while schooling me

"if a guy offers you weight ,why play even/"
I said "oh"

I heard Eddie say that he could have given Tony Chohan and someone about Tony's speed ,2 balls


Kelly also told me that no one could beat Eddie Taylor

So Eddie beating Fats 10-7 doesn't surprise me ,I would have taken Eddie to win also.

But there again,I would have bet on Ronnie unless I was afraid Ronnie was working the room

I would like to hear from Billy Stroud,he is one of the very few that really knows these things.
When I find myself betting against Billy,I have one hard and fast rule.
PULL UP

Jay is another who knows what is going on,I do not mean to suggest otherwise,
I just prefer asking Billy,because of our history
 
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billinboston said:
Somewhere in my readings over the years, there was a small writing
About Fats and Ronnie Allen playing back room action in 1970
With Ronnie giving 9-7
Was Fats really good enough to go 9-7 with Ronnie ? And... in 1970 ?
Click to expand...

That story is in R.A. Dyer's the Hustler and the Champ.
 
deanoc said:
I wasn Las Vegas with Eddie Kelly,we played some golf together
in order to set up a game of me playing either pool or golf with some
prospective opponents

At the time the opponents were also playing and watching me play from several fairways over, I was playing a terrible lemon game knowing they were watching with binoculars while I let Eddie beat me.

When the game was over I paid Eddie $50 and when they asked him he said"All I can do is tell you,he lost $50 to me and I can't break 100"


While playing I asked Eddie how he played Ronnie back in the day,he told me he beat Ronnie 9 to 8,or 8 to 7 (my memory is failing)


So I said,so he was a little better one pocket player than you?

Eddie said"I didn't say that"
But you got weight I said,to which he replied while schooling me

"if a guy offers you weight ,why play even/"
I said "oh"

I heard Eddie say that he could have given Tony Chohan and someone about Tony's speed ,2 balls


Kelly also told me that no one could beat Eddie Taylor

So Eddie beating Fats 10-7 doesn't surprise me ,I would have taken Eddie to win also.

But there again,I would have bet on Ronnie unless I was afraid Ronnie was working the room

I would like to hear from Billy Stroud,he is one of the very few that really knows these things.
When I find myself betting against Billy,I have one hard and fast rule.
PULL UP

Jay is another who knows what is going on,I do not mean to suggest otherwise,
I just prefer asking Billy,because of our history
Click to expand...

I saw them play and Kelly did not win getting 9-8, but when they changed the game to 9-8, 8-7 (on Ronnie's break) Kelly won. They were that close. I never saw Ronnie play Taylor but I don't think he wouldn't have played him, given the chance. No question that Taylor could out bank Ronnie (or anyone else) but Ronnie worked the balls/rack really good and usually got the best of it early on in games. If he got the first advantage he almost always won the game. When Ronnie was breaking (half the games) it was near impossible to out move him. He also ran eight and out better than anyone else, and often had to run ten balls (he frequently played good players 10-6, 10-7 or 10-8). His ability on kick shots and combinations was unmatched at that time. Plus Ronnie gambled really good, the higher the bet the more he liked it. I saw them all play and IMO (and that of most players of that era) Ronnie was the best player. He was the Efren of his era, the most creative and innovative player in the game.

Ronnie also played Bugs and won and lost against him. Some of the games may have been suspect though. I also saw Marvin Henderson beat Ronnie for the cash at a room he was very comfortable in. Marvin refused to give Ronnie a rematch in his poolroom though.

As far as Fat's was concerned, his best games were Banks, One Pocket and Three Cushions. He played all three of these games within a ball of the best players. And he matched up and gambled better than just about anyone else. Sorry I wasn't there to see Ronnie play him. That would have been hilarious, two of the most entertaining pool players of all time. Kind of like when Louie played Keith. :wink:
 
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At Janscos, about 68-69, I saw RA run 8 and out back to back....''one handed'' in the air. He was playing some cowboy 5-$600 a rack one pocket. I walked away shaking my head. It was absurd to see. I looked at him as the ''Jack Nicklaus'' of pool at that time. He had a wonderful laugh/cackle....way about im, I was only 19 and battling Varner in the collegiate finals at IU.
 
I spent a lot of time with Fatty. He truly was the greatest.

He could play one pocket and banks very well.

I was in Johnson City when Fatty beat Richie Florence out of about 35K.
Fats was getting 8/7 as I remember. Smart game maker.

Kelly went on the road with Taylor just like I did. That is where we both developed the respect we had for Taylors game. Kelly learned to bank from Taylor just like I did.

There was no question at the time that Taylor was the best bank and one pocket player. Everyone even complained when he got in a ring 9 or 10 ball game.

He could also beat RA playing one handed. I watched him do it at the Stardust. I was sitting next to Squirrel and was amazed. I shouldn't have been surprised as he ran 14 banks playing practice pool with me one handed to my two.

Taylor could also play straight pool. I watched him beat Beanie at a game that Miz lost at.

Taylor had knowledge about banks that no one had or has today. He freely shared those secrets with anyone that he thought could learn.

He is much missed.

Bill S.
 
bstroud said:
I was in Johnson City when Fatty beat Richie Florence out of about 35K.
Fats was getting 8/7 as I remember. Smart game maker.

Bill S.
Click to expand...

$35,000.00 in 1970 had the same buying power as $228,868.44 in 2018....

Ken
 
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