Last edited:
The crouching stance
- Thread starter JC
- Start date
I agree, brudder... ( 6'4" ).
I'm gonna see if Bob replies here. We'll see. I may just have my original stance before long.
For me, it's a battle between having the cue on my chest vs having the back leg locked. If I have to pick one, I like having the cue on my chest. I can't imagine anyone over 6'1" being able to play with their back leg locked unless their head and chest is way above the cue. I agree back leg locked should be the starting point though.
My chin has ALWAYS been @ 10" above my cue, whether back leg locked or crouch.
JC
Coos Cues
So can you do that? Do you play at pro level?
To consistently deliver the cue on target is kind of a relative concept. Most people who play at my level miss fairly often and usually don't have a clue why.
I am 6 feet tall and have always played with a high head even with the crouching stance. I too felt that these stances were brutally uncomfortable until I got that out of my mind and played with it a bunch and I found it wasn't true.
I did not have someone standing there placing my feet for me. I simply put my back foot on the shot line as always and then played with every variation of forward and back with it and left right forward back with my front foot and to my surprise there was a spot where it all works.
I expect to improve now even though I'm older and I am pretty happy about it. In fact I have already improved in just a couple of weeks. I guess we will see what Fargo says in a year or so. I'm a 597 today and have been right in there since I logged my first game in the system 5 years ago.
Last edited:
I knew there was something I liked about you....the majority of my shots is the same way.
....about ten inches over the cue....but when I’m on the rail, I look like a snooker player....
...and when I’m close to the object ball, I stand up almost like Jimmy Moore.
But my cue is connected to my right foot...my right knee sometimes if it’s on the table...
....it’s where the foundation is....like Ben Hogan said about golf, the power’s in the dirt...
...not enough power hitting from the upper body.....
Sometimes I bent both knees on the break....and stand up as I hit whitey...only on the
days my timing was good.
I *KNEW* there were multiple reasons I liked you, PT!
In that video I put up, my chin is probably @ 12" above but that's due to the day that vid was taken, I hadn't been in the room in almost 2 weeks as my back was so bad I could barely stand, so I was not down as low as I normally would've been.
JC
Coos Cues
I found this video from about 10 years ago when I was getting my first serious pool instruction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkmknMy8i6o&feature=youtu.be
I'm the guy in the orange shirt.
Last edited:
I have no idea. I have no training in sports medicine or (in our case) geriatrics.
If I were to look at your stance in this video without having read everything else in this post I'd have said that it looks to me like you are crowding the ball. In other words, your back leg is too close to the front one. Aside from actually locking the back leg, the mere fact that you are spreading things out some might also be helping you.
JC
Coos Cues
Actually I had changed it since then but only to a new crouch.
Here is what I looked like in March of this year. Not quite as crowded. Just older and fatter :frown:
https://youtu.be/S3Hf9mGikOQ?t=21243
Last edited:
This was a enjoyable thread, I got the DDD's so I can relate to back problems. Going to try some different stances or possibly staying up higher over the cue and hope it helps, chin on the cue after a few hours of playing my back and neck are killing me
This is really a great thread. This theme is really close to me and I can share with my experience. Starting to master the game at the age of 21 as a student of the National university of physical education and sports of Ukraine with quite a few years in basketball behind. I'm 198 sm in hight and when I started as a player on most shots "pool stance" was really comfortable at that time and I had been improving fairly good competing mostly with my friend Artem Koshoviy and a few more opponents.
We used to practice together with Artem in our university's pool school. Both played in a pool stance being very different when it comes to the age, the height and so on. Both practiced a lot long straight in draw shots helping each other when needed. Well at that time I had no fear facing long straight in shot in a game realizing I need to draw it full table. It was like a good call and with needed confidence I could shoot it just with a thought "watch out don't miss this shot". I liked those shots being positive on most of them but the time went on and closer to my 30's I started to experience some issues with my neck and back. It was some constraint, pain and such in those muscles where you need to be fully relaxed. Once I started to experience this I also started to be too conscious about those things (my stance, upper arm, grip and such) I had been doing naturally before. Do I need to tell where was my confidence on those shots I did not fear before?
So as at that time I had already quite a few years of coaching experience and just playing pool you don't make a living... I had to review my priorities and focus mostly on coaching and other stuff. So as I loved the game I continued to practice and compete on the national level but it was completely another story when it comes to many aspects. Now in my 40's I'm having a break and it is now at least 3 years with no tournaments.
What I was really interested that is to find the solution for the problems I experienced. Last year I had participated in the courses for snooker players held by Alan Trigg who presented the Sight Right System he joined. Helping with the translation to our players I also participated and tried the system. It was great and new experience for me. After those courses I decided to look closely at yourself.
I just started to film myself every now and than doing the same standard drills I like to repeat regularly and I noticed the biggest issues I had to solve. There are certain "golden" rules for your stroke being straight. Two pretty simple to talk about and very important but when it comes to performance once the pressure is there it is not as simple to follow them. All of you know them:
- zero body movement
- you need to be as relaxed as possible.
We used to practice together with Artem in our university's pool school. Both played in a pool stance being very different when it comes to the age, the height and so on. Both practiced a lot long straight in draw shots helping each other when needed. Well at that time I had no fear facing long straight in shot in a game realizing I need to draw it full table. It was like a good call and with needed confidence I could shoot it just with a thought "watch out don't miss this shot". I liked those shots being positive on most of them but the time went on and closer to my 30's I started to experience some issues with my neck and back. It was some constraint, pain and such in those muscles where you need to be fully relaxed. Once I started to experience this I also started to be too conscious about those things (my stance, upper arm, grip and such) I had been doing naturally before. Do I need to tell where was my confidence on those shots I did not fear before?
So as at that time I had already quite a few years of coaching experience and just playing pool you don't make a living... I had to review my priorities and focus mostly on coaching and other stuff. So as I loved the game I continued to practice and compete on the national level but it was completely another story when it comes to many aspects. Now in my 40's I'm having a break and it is now at least 3 years with no tournaments.
What I was really interested that is to find the solution for the problems I experienced. Last year I had participated in the courses for snooker players held by Alan Trigg who presented the Sight Right System he joined. Helping with the translation to our players I also participated and tried the system. It was great and new experience for me. After those courses I decided to look closely at yourself.
I just started to film myself every now and than doing the same standard drills I like to repeat regularly and I noticed the biggest issues I had to solve. There are certain "golden" rules for your stroke being straight. Two pretty simple to talk about and very important but when it comes to performance once the pressure is there it is not as simple to follow them. All of you know them:
- zero body movement
- you need to be as relaxed as possible.
Now here is a video I filmed more then a year ago testing my new playing cue I've built and doing one of the standard drills I repeat almost every practice session warming up.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GETwjn3MSZo
Now I have to come back to those times I played my best pool. At those times I felt pretty comfortable in my stance no matter what shot I was facing and everything seemed to work pretty natural. But once the problems appeared I started to notice I don't feel comfortable on certain shots any more losing my confidence and so on. I guess being younger I was more flexible and it was easier to find the comfortable body position. As I said it seemed and felt pretty natural but after those changes in my body when I got older it did not work any more that way. I started to realize I'm not comfortable on many shots and started to be too conscious about what and how I was doing. I felt I'm not comfortable on my backswing and very often it's not straight either of poor alighnment and as a result the hip of my back leg being on the way for the cue.
The biggest problem I noticed in my stance with the back leg bended on certain shots this leg straightened with my hip moving on my backswing. That mistake was the major reason for my cueing not being level and straight and that's why those long draw shots I loved to perform afterwards becoming a nightmare. Of course there were some other things I did not like but among many mistakes it is always a key mistake which leads to the others to come as a result. So you need first of all to find this key mistake and work to get rid of it.
After I looked at yourself closely from the side I understood – I need to work on my walking in and alignment plus to straighten and lock my back leg to make sure I don't move on the shots. I should also say that by teaching kids and observing them growing up and improving is also a great experience. Naturally talented kids are a very good example when it comes to their adaptability and flexibility.
After that simple change once I locked my back leg my accuracy started to improve noticeably. In order to make sure the second rule is also there instead of checking if I do certain things right I started to focus on being as relaxed as possible trusting the feelings. If something does not feel right just stop, stand up and repeat from the beginning.
Here is a video I filmed recently testing my cue in pair with c.f. shaft. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WUEdkzI8QSE. I can tell now I’m feeling much better on those shots with some distance and with power. Of course I need to keep working but at least now I see the light at the end of the tunnel.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xU6ME7kIF6g
Here is also a video I filmed with my student who has pretty solid fundamentals and stroke. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg6WNUtGar8
I started to teach him at the age of almost 11 y.o. Of course while he was growing up his stance was changing and he had to adapt to his “new” hight and so on. Now he's 18 y.o. As a result in competitions when the stress is there on many shots he finds that comfortable body position by making some movements up and down into his stance untill he feels completely relaxed.
Here is a match where Nikita managed to show one of his most solid performances in the final of national 9-ball cup. You may notice those movements he does on some shots. https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=4260&v=CWEc7-uk6fI&feature=youtu.be
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GETwjn3MSZo
Now I have to come back to those times I played my best pool. At those times I felt pretty comfortable in my stance no matter what shot I was facing and everything seemed to work pretty natural. But once the problems appeared I started to notice I don't feel comfortable on certain shots any more losing my confidence and so on. I guess being younger I was more flexible and it was easier to find the comfortable body position. As I said it seemed and felt pretty natural but after those changes in my body when I got older it did not work any more that way. I started to realize I'm not comfortable on many shots and started to be too conscious about what and how I was doing. I felt I'm not comfortable on my backswing and very often it's not straight either of poor alighnment and as a result the hip of my back leg being on the way for the cue.
The biggest problem I noticed in my stance with the back leg bended on certain shots this leg straightened with my hip moving on my backswing. That mistake was the major reason for my cueing not being level and straight and that's why those long draw shots I loved to perform afterwards becoming a nightmare. Of course there were some other things I did not like but among many mistakes it is always a key mistake which leads to the others to come as a result. So you need first of all to find this key mistake and work to get rid of it.
After I looked at yourself closely from the side I understood – I need to work on my walking in and alignment plus to straighten and lock my back leg to make sure I don't move on the shots. I should also say that by teaching kids and observing them growing up and improving is also a great experience. Naturally talented kids are a very good example when it comes to their adaptability and flexibility.
After that simple change once I locked my back leg my accuracy started to improve noticeably. In order to make sure the second rule is also there instead of checking if I do certain things right I started to focus on being as relaxed as possible trusting the feelings. If something does not feel right just stop, stand up and repeat from the beginning.
Here is a video I filmed recently testing my cue in pair with c.f. shaft. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WUEdkzI8QSE. I can tell now I’m feeling much better on those shots with some distance and with power. Of course I need to keep working but at least now I see the light at the end of the tunnel.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xU6ME7kIF6g
Here is also a video I filmed with my student who has pretty solid fundamentals and stroke. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg6WNUtGar8
I started to teach him at the age of almost 11 y.o. Of course while he was growing up his stance was changing and he had to adapt to his “new” hight and so on. Now he's 18 y.o. As a result in competitions when the stress is there on many shots he finds that comfortable body position by making some movements up and down into his stance untill he feels completely relaxed.
Here is a match where Nikita managed to show one of his most solid performances in the final of national 9-ball cup. You may notice those movements he does on some shots. https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=4260&v=CWEc7-uk6fI&feature=youtu.be
Last edited:
The "textbook" pool stance (especially the "old school" textbook stance for short people, with the head well above the cue) is definitely not for everybody. There is nothing wrong with an athletic crouching stance, especially if it is stable and helps a player get their head low with their vision center properly aligned. For more info, see the following video:
NV J.21 – How to Find the Perfect Pool/Snooker/Billiards Stance
and the stance advice resource page.
Enjoy,
Dave
Last edited:
JC
Coos Cues
I believe my young legs were capable of providing a solid consistent base from a crouch for extended sessions. I was also capable of playing full court basketball for 6 hours straight and hiking 10 miles up a mountain without resting.
Time marched on and the inability to provide a consistent solid base while crouched snuck up on me.
I would have been better off to have realized this earlier on.
Last edited:
JC
Coos Cues
Here are a couple of good amateurs from my area that are both as tall as you are.
Notice one manages a straight leg stance and the other crouches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCsKlGuTkZY
JC
John...Yep, and I'm the guy in the blue shirt. There was nothing wrong with your stance back then, and there's nothing wrong with changing your stance, as you have now. Now...how you step into the shot line may be different, and that can have a great effect on accuracy in delivering the cue into the straight line that your brain and eyes "see".
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com