The story behind the Jackot cues

[HawaiianEye]

You can order a cue from Schmelke without their logo.

Below is part of Dean's original post before he completely rewrote it.
Here is a question for anyone who thinks all of this is OK

If I ordered a Schmelke cue with a few customizations and no logo for $150...
Then, I sold it to you as a "custom cue" for $500...
And later on you found out the cue I sold you was a $150 Schmelke...
How would you feel?

If you make a few "customizations" is it not "customized" from what their standard off-the-shelf cue would be like?

Y'all can go argue with the dictionary.

customize cus·tom·ize
Use customize in a sentence

verb
To customize is defined as to make or change something to personal or unique specifications.
An example of customize is to have your car modified with leather seats, a top of the line sound system and glowing lights.

customize
transitive verb
-·ized·, -·iz·ing
to make, build, or modify according to personal or individual specifications

customize
transitive verb
cus·tom·ized, cus·tom·iz·ing, cus·tom·iz·es
To make or alter to individual or personal specifications: customize a van.

cus‧tom‧ize (also customise British English) /ˈkʌstəmaɪz/ verb [transitive]
To change something to make it more suitable for you, or to make it look special or different from things of a similar type
a customized car

cus‧tom‧ize /ˈkʌstəmaɪz/ (also customise British English) verb [transitive usually passive]
if something is customized for a customer, it is designed, built etc specially for that customer, making it different to other things of the same kind

 

[jimmyco]

I think it may help if one of the “makers” of the jackpot cue stepped in and gave the specs on the cue. Maybe specified how the construction of the cue is different from a standard shmelke? I mean, for 500 there’s a lot left to be desired. Jovi cues makes SW replicas for the Taiwanese market that look amazing for half the price. *Apparently with the same specs of a SW. I’m not expecting that anyone involved with the jackpot would care enough to elaborate on the the design specifications, but if they proved they were innovative and different that may help to smooth things over

Jovi cues are 1/10 the price of a Southwest.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Jovi cues are 1/10 the price of a Southwest.

And probably play just as good.

Somebody on here get one and dissect it like the REVO shaft.

One of the high-dollar cue collectors on here should be able to afford it to prove their cue is better.

Let's see 'em.

 

[ideologist]

And probably play just as good.

Somebody on here get one and dissect it like the REVO shaft.

One of the high-dollar cue collectors on here should be able to afford it to prove their cue is better.

Let's see 'em.

Hawaii Gymnastics Academy is back in session, what else are you going to shit on to justify your cheapness?

You enjoy mediocre cues that you can afford, you do you.

 

[couldnthinkof01]

I have no dog in this fight.
Did not buy a jackpot, did not consider buying.
Don't personally know anyone who did.

I have bought and played with a few schmelke cues.
They are about what you would figure for $100.
Looked similar to ideologist's pics.
Play just fine and would buy one again.

Hawaiian eye you seem to be satisfied with your
cue and happy with your purchase.
Knowing what you know about the jackpots
now, would you buy another for $500?

 

[HawaiianEye]

Hawaii Gymnastics Academy is back in session, what else are you going to shit on to justify your cheapness?

You enjoy mediocre cues that you can afford, you do you.

LOL.

You amuse me.

I enjoy all kinds of cues to look at, but I'm a pool player, not a collector.

I don't need a fancy cue to play with.

All of my cues play good, even the cheap ones.

I have no need for anything more than a cue I play well with. I've got a dozen, or more, playing cues in the closet, but I never wanted anything fancy. I've got a Becue with three carbon shafts, a Murray Tucker, two custom Titlist conversions, two expensive old-school McDermotts, a Mike Gulyassy, two Jackpot/Zorros, an ADAM Japan, and more that I can't even remember without opening all the bags and boxes. I've had two cues made for me by Richard Black, back in the late 70s and 80s, but I sold them years ago.

I can afford any cue you got, but I don't need any of them.

Mediocre cues don't bother me. I can play well with them.

Do you play pool?

Or, do you sit on the bench watching players while you show other people sitting on the bench your fancy cue?

 

[ideologist]

LOL.

You amuse me.

I enjoy all kinds of cues to look at, but I'm a pool player, not a collector.

I don't need a fancy cue to play with.

All of my cues play good, even the cheap ones.

I have no need for anything more than a cue I play well with. I've got a dozen, or more, playing cues in the closet, but I never wanted anything fancy. I've got a Becue with three carbon shafts, a Murray Tucker, two custom Titlist conversions, two expensive old-school McDermotts, a Mike Gulyassy, two Jackpot/Zorros, an ADAM Japan, and more that I can't even remember without opening all the bags and boxes. I've had two cues made for me by Richard Black, back in the late 70s and 80s, but I sold them years ago.

I can afford any cue you got, but I don't need any of them.

Mediocre cues don't bother me. I can play well with them.

Do you play pool?

Or, do you sit on the bench watching players while you show other people sitting on the bench your fancy cue?

I typically play with a house cue, or a cue made.out of house cue

I also play reasonably well. I'm no pro, but I'd bet you some and might possibly lose, but I wouldn't feel embarrassed.

I wouldn't go drink koolaid on the internet and justify a sham by sucking up on mediocre cues and defending awful ethics and poor behavior. As Dean's Chief Enabler, you should feel embarrassed.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I typically play with a house cue, or a cue made.out of house cue

I also play reasonably well. I'm no pro, but I'd bet you some and might possibly lose, but I wouldn't feel embarrassed.

I wouldn't go drink koolaid on the internet and justify a sham by sucking up on mediocre cues and defending awful ethics and poor behavior. As Dean's Chief Enabler, you should feel embarrassed.

I'm not enabling anybody.

I knew what I was getting when I got mine. I played with it before I got it in a trade.

Come on over and we can play some cheap pool.

I'll spot you. I'll use my cheap-ass no good Jackpot while you use your highest dollar cue and we'll see who wins. Obviously, the better the cue, the more chance the player should win. Right?

By all rights you should probably have to be spotting me if I'm using such a POS cue. What if the hollow butt were to fall off during the middle of the game and land on my bad foot?

If y'all didn't get a Jackpot, you should quit yapping about them.

 

[ideologist]

I'm not enabling anybody.

I knew what I was getting when I got mine. I played with it before I got it in a trade.

Come on over and we can play some cheap pool.

I'll spot you. I'll use my cheap-ass no good Jackpot while you use your highest dollar cue and we'll see who wins. Obviously, the better the cue, the more chance the player should win. Right?

By all rights you should probably have to be spotting me if I'm using such a POS cue. What if the hollow butt were to fall off during the middle of the game and land on my bad foot?

If y'all didn't get a Jackpot, you should quit yapping about them.

How did you read "cue made out of house cue" as "high dollar"?

What a weird thing to puff your chest out about.

The worst part about that is your defensiveness about being able to afford any cue while simultaneously turning your nose up at cues that cost more than a tank of gas. Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? That's unbeatable so I bow to you sir.

I'm not knocking the dollars spent in the making of the jackpot, I mostly think the tactics of the seller are inexcusable. You continue to excuse them or talk around them. As such, enabling Dean.

If you think the photos of the cue I posted aren't bad, then you're just in denial. As such, enabling Dean.

If I bought a Tascarella and that turd was in the box, I would have been livid.

A guy who knows quite a bit about making top-shelf players has posted on here quite a bit about how bad a value these cues are. Stock Schmelke taper does not a Libra make.

 

[HawaiianEye]

How did you read "cue made out of house cue" as "high dollar"?

What a weird thing to puff your chest out about.

I'm not knocking the dollars spent in the making of the jackpot, I mostly think the tactics of the seller are inexcusable. You continue to excuse them or talk around them. As such, enabling Dean.

If you think the photos of the cue I posted aren't bad, then you're just in denial. As such, enabling Dean.

If I bought a Tascarella and that turd was in the box, I would have been livid.

A guy who knows quite a bit about making top-shelf players has posted on here quite a bit about how bad a value these cues are. Stock Schmelke taper does not a Libra make.

I didn't mean your "house cue" conversion to be high-dollar.

Since you are always talking down about McDermotts and other cues, I figured you had some high-dollar cues that you broke out when you got down to some serious playing. You know you can't trust a "mediocre" cue. I think that's what you keep harping about.

The one cue that you posted pictures of isn't like the two I have or the one my friend has when it comes to having some sort of defect. Maybe that one somehow slipped through the crack. I've seen some cues on here that were made by high-dollar makers that were shipped with defects. I can't speak to those. I don't have one and haven't seen one. The only three I've seen are good.

Is the one you posted a stock taper? How do you know that? Do you have other Schmelke's with a stock taper to compare it to?

I have several shafts with mine and not all of them were tapered the same. Is that stock when they are different? These were purposely tapered differently so that comparisons could be made. The same reason the ferrules are longer on some and of a different material. Everybody knew that when he first started talking about them before they were ever built. It was by design.

I'm glad you play with a house cue. Welcome to the mediocre cue club.

I have some cues made out house cues, too. A Murray Tucker Sneaky Pete and two Titlist conversions. Those were made out of house cues, too.

You can play with those while I use the Jackpot until it falls apart, then I'll grab one of my other ones.

 

[johnnysd]

Strange hypothetical question based on a false rumor that still get perpetuated.

That’s not what happened here, and no Tascarella cue was built by The Adam Cue company despite the rumors. Both Tascarellas were official repair guys for Adam USA. There’s no secret there.

But if a seller strongly suggested it was built by Pete, I would ask Pete about the cue first.

I was not referring to any of that, When I made my hypothetical I was completely unaware of any rumor or whatever you are talking about. You thought I was referring to things I had no knowledge of, it was just an example that seemed logical to me.

 

[Gatto138]

Jovi cues are 1/10 the price of a Southwest.

I meant for half the price of a jackpot

 

[logical]

I have had a couple of dealing with Deanoc, he was always wonderful to deal with. Man who's word was like a verbal handshake.



Like in the good old days when a handshake was better then a contract drawn up by a Harvard Lawyer.

But he's just admitted flat out lying to the entire forum.

Sent from the future.

 

[Snooker Theory]

What do you want them to customize (looks or dimensions)?

A while back, I bought the MOST EXPENSIVE 4-prong blank that Schmelke sold...purple heart into an ebony front.

I also had David pick the BEST shaft he could find (they called them something like "select" and you paid extra for them).

I told them what tip.
I told them what ferrule and length..
I told them what butt cap and how long.
I told them what pin..
I told them what collars.
I told them the taper.
I told them the shaft diameter.
I told them the diameter of the joint.
I told them the balance point.
I told them the diameter at the beginning of the wrap.
I told them the diameter at the end of the wrap.
I told them the diameter at the butt cap.
I told them the weight.
I told them the type of wrap.

Other than adding some sort of "bling", how much more could I have customized it?

None of the specs were what Schmelke sold as "stock" production cues.

Was that a Schmelke mass-production cue or a custom cue?

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=447538&highlight=ebony+purple+heart

First Jim, you know how you accused sofla of being a bot all the time, well your sorta sounding a bit worse than him, defend at all costs against all logic.

Iv seen that thread, you know what I noticed, not once did you tell or imply to the people following along that you personally were "building" the cue, why is that? When you asked in the cuemaker section if your "specs" would be good, you also clearly mentioned Schmekle...
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=447538
Heck many people contributed feedback to your thread, so maybe that black beauty was an Eric Crisp, David Schmekle, and Jim colab?

Since multiple people asked you, how much did you pay for that ebony/purpleheart cue with all that customization, lol.

Congrats to all those that got nice hitting Schmekle/Jackpots, glad you guys are happy to pay 500-600 for a great hitting plain jane Schmekle, by all means carry on.

I also bet many people are happy with their Bob Weir cues, or their Leon Sly cue built by Harris, and good for them too. I bet Jack is thankful his reputation is in the same great company as Weir. LoL

I have some cues I "built", if anyone wants to try them maybe I'll make a few bucks, heck maybe you will even buy 2 hawaiian eye.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

And probably play just as good.

Somebody on here get one and dissect it like the REVO shaft.

One of the high-dollar cue collectors on here should be able to afford it to prove their cue is better.

Let's see 'em.

I have one from MIT cues. I will gladly showcase pics of how it's made. It's head and shoulders above the Jackpot cue, for about half the money.

 

[Buster8001]

I didn't mean your "house cue" conversion to be high-dollar.

Since you are always talking down about McDermotts and other cues, I figured you had some high-dollar cues that you broke out when you got down to some serious playing. You know you can't trust a "mediocre" cue. I think that's what you keep harping about.

The one cue that you posted pictures of isn't like the two I have or the one my friend has when it comes to having some sort of defect. Maybe that one somehow slipped through the crack. I've seen some cues on here that were made by high-dollar makers that were shipped with defects. I can't speak to those. I don't have one and haven't seen one. The only three I've seen are good.

Is the one you posted a stock taper? How do you know that? Do you have other Schmelke's with a stock taper to compare it to?

I have several shafts with mine and not all of them were tapered the same. Is that stock when they are different? These were purposely tapered differently so that comparisons could be made. The same reason the ferrules are longer on some and of a different material. Everybody knew that when he first started talking about them before they were ever built. It was by design.

I'm glad you play with a house cue. Welcome to the mediocre cue club.

I have some cues made out house cues, too. A Murray Tucker Sneaky Pete and two Titlist conversions. Those were made out of house cues, too.

You can play with those while I use the Jackpot until it falls apart, then I'll grab one of my other ones.

HawaiianEye,

What you, and it seems everyone else defending this shill, is not able to grasp, is the fact that how the cue plays has no bearing on why the collective has been so livid about this subject.

I was one of the first to bring this all to light. I was also the one who pointed out they're Schmelke cues. I've had numerous conversations outside of AZB with people who know infinitely more about cues than you. Not once dd we discuss play-ability. It's not a factor.

It boils down to Dean's ethics, they childish way he treats this forum (even identified by our very own Mod), and the shill nature of this endeavor. He knew he was cheating people. You paid $500 for a cue you could have ordered for $100. Dean told Schmelke to use inferior parts in said cues to keep his cost down. Schmelke didn't want to be named, because these cues are inferior even for their standards. What you received is a good shaft. Maybe two good shafts.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

whether the Jackpot cues play well is not relevant to the central issue so why waste so much time and energy debating that?

The main issue is whether or not Dean lied/misrepresented/deceived his customers during his overzealous marketing campaign here on azb. I think it's been established that yes he did. There are referenced quotes in this thread from Dean where he stated that Jack Potter was making the cues and Dean knew that was not the case.

Not too long ago I ordered a Schmelke custom cue and worked directly with David Schmelke. It was a total pleasure and I would quickly reject any suggestion that he or his company would be complicit it any deception effort. That doesn't even make sense.

For price comparison, the cue I ordered was a custom bushka design with swirly acrylic, a veneered ebony and clear maple blank, and two shafts. I specified the tapers, which tips, the ferrule material, and weights. I even had him use thick nickel rings. Also, David provided me with his premium shafts. We joked about the cue, calling it a Schmelabushka. I think the cue came out great. The only thing I would do different is the linen wrap - they didn't have anything better in house but what an easy fix that is. All of this for $340. :thumbup:

Imagine ole Deano on the phone with Schmelke ordering "a batch" of merry widows and negotiating the price. Did he even pay a c-note each? If he was up front with everyone, what he paid wouldn't have mattered at all, imo. With all of the blanks about this deal slowly getting filled in, it sure makes him look bad.

One last thing. Being told by HawaiianEye that "If y'all didn't get a Jackpot, you should quit yapping about them". makes me think he still doesn't get the point. I like you Hawaiian but please open your eyes; there's a bit more to this than whether the cues play good.

best,
brian kc

 

[TATE]

Guys, I've spoken on the phone with Jim (Hawaiian Eye) and had a trade with him. He's a good trustworthy guy and he is all-in on his Jackpot cue. Cues like this are an odd thing. Any two can look exactly the same and be polar opposites on the table - we've all experienced that.

Dean can be very charming. Jim has posed one side of the argument based on his experiences. I think we've made our point and maybe we should leave it at that.

 

[logical]

Guys, I've spoken on the phone with Jim (Hawaiian Eye) and had a trade with him. He's a good trustworthy guy and he is all-in on his Jackpot cue. Cues like this are an odd thing. Any two can look exactly the same and be polar opposites on the table - we've all experienced that.

Dean can be very charming. Jim has posed one side of the argument based on his experiences. I think we've made our point and maybe we should leave it at that.

You realize you are like the 7th person who thought he could waltz in and get everyone to just let this go right?

Sent from the future.

 

[Snooker Theory]

whether the Jackpot cues play well is not relevant to the central issue so why waste so much time and energy debating that?

The main issue is whether or not Dean lied/misrepresented/deceived his customers during his overzealous marketing campaign here on azb. I think it's been established that yes he did. There are referenced quotes in this thread from Dean where he stated that Jack Potter was making the cues and Dean knew that was not the case.

Not too long ago I ordered a Schmelke custom cue and worked directly with David Schmelke. It was a total pleasure and I would quickly reject any suggestion that he or his company would be complicit it any deception effort. That doesn't even make sense.

For price comparison, the cue I ordered was a custom bushka design with swirly acrylic, a veneered ebony and clear maple blank, and two shafts. I specified the tapers, which tips, the ferrule material, and weights. I even had him use thick nickel rings. Also, David provided me with his premium shafts. We joked about the cue, calling it a Schmelabushka. I think the cue came out great. The only thing I would do different is the linen wrap - they didn't have anything better in house but what an easy fix that is. All of this for $340. :thumbup:

Imagine ole Deano on the phone with Schmelke ordering "a batch" of merry widows and negotiating the price. Did he even pay a c-note each? If he was up front with everyone, what he paid wouldn't have mattered at all, imo. With all of the blanks about this deal slowly getting filled in, it sure makes him look bad.

One last thing. Being told by HawaiianEye that "If y'all didn't get a Jackpot, you should quit yapping about them". makes me think he still doesn't get the point. I like you Hawaiian but please open your eyes; there's a bit more to this than whether the cues play good.

best,
brian kc

The logic by some people is that if you told Dave the following specs it's no longer a Schmekle, and its whatever cuemaker specs you supplied .

Paying 600 for a plain jane Schmekle advertised as being built by Jack Potter or paying 340 for that Schmekle seems like a no brainer.

what tip.
what ferrule and length..
butt cap and how long.
what pin..
what collars.
the taper.
shaft diameter.
diameter of the joint.
the balance point
the diameter at the beginning of the wrap.
the diameter at the end of the wrap.
the diameter at the butt cap.
the weight.
the type of wrap