The Biggest reason Lower level players can't improve ????

Oh and while shooting eyes shut will eliminate all confirmation bias/errors, it 2 skery. Shooting cue ball last is almost like a security blanket lol...

I've only tried that during one practice session to prove that I could do it. I was using OB last, as usual.

Elaborating on OB last, I arrived at that method by observation, experimentation and reason, in that order. After I quit playing pool and then went back to it I discovered that I had been using mostly feel and intuition to play and due to the layoff I mostly lost that so I had to school myself on playing, for the first time. One thing I noticed was that I had difficulty making long shots, something that was never a problem before.

Deciding that it was due to stroke and not aiming I started doing the straight shot drill where you line up all the balls between the side pockets and shoot half in one corner and the rest in the other corner, placing the CB along the head spot line BIH to make each shot straight in. It was annoying to discover that I had difficulty making all 15 so I dug in and noticed that if I was looking at the CB when I pulled the trigger I missed and if at the OB it went in.

So the reasoning part is that just like shooting a rifle, to be accurate, you do not focus on the sights, you focus on the target. I have no other explanation for it.
 
I have a a detached retina in my right eye. It's mostly reset (going on 20-30 years already) but one bizarre artifact is magnification is greater in that eye and spheres are particularly prone to retinal distortion; they appear egg shaped through that eye. I've gone through many changes in order to address the cognitive discomfort but I come to the conclusion that it's just discomfort and has negligible influence on matters Newtonian. So...

The double vision is just geometry. With your chin on the stick the eyes are pretty much left and right views. Instead of going astigmatic just to see the tip of the cue, I don't bother and just aim with the parallel cue image. The Duh-pihpany being the chin is already centered on my face, it is also the stick locator.

Yikes! My vision issue sare small potatoes by comparison even though they caused me to quit for a number of years.

FWIW, because I am left eye dominate, shooting right handed, my stick is under my left eye, so it is to the left of my chin.
 
I've only tried that during one practice session to prove that I could do it. I was using OB last, as usual.

Elaborating on OB last, I arrived at that method by observation, experimentation and reason, in that order. After I quit playing pool and then went back to it I discovered that I had been using mostly feel and intuition to play and due to the layoff I mostly lost that so I had to school myself on playing, for the first time. One thing I noticed was that I had difficulty making long shots, something that was never a problem before.

Deciding that it was due to stroke and not aiming I started doing the straight shot drill where you line up all the balls between the side pockets and shoot half in one corner and the rest in the other corner, placing the CB along the head spot line BIH to make each shot straight in. It was annoying to discover that I had difficulty making all 15 so I dug in and noticed that if I was looking at the CB when I pulled the trigger I missed and if at the OB it went in.

So the reasoning part is that just like shooting a rifle, to be accurate, you do not focus on the sights, you focus on the target. I have no other explanation for it.
It's not that bad, you can cheat all you like in fact I need to get into the habit of confirming the shot normally before settling on the cue ball. That may become unnecessary with practice only time will tell.

Yikes! My vision issue sare small potatoes by comparison even though they caused me to quit for a number of years.

FWIW, because I am left eye dominate, shooting right handed, my stick is under my left eye, so it is to the left of my chin.
It sounds worse than it is. I can't make out this screen without 1.5 readers and that's slowly deterioration but that's actually the worst of it. The only pool that's suffered is long thin ones. I may not even hit the object ball at 70, 80 degrees. Could be because I noticed nobody shoots those anymore and stopped taking 'em. Won't know until I can get to practicing "full time" ...
 
It's not that bad, you can cheat all you like in fact I need to get into the habit of confirming the shot normally before settling on the cue ball. That may become unnecessary with practice only time will tell.


It sounds worse than it is. I can't make out this screen without 1.5 readers and that's slowly deterioration but that's actually the worst of it. The only pool that's suffered is long thin ones. I may not even hit the object ball at 70, 80 degrees. Could be because I noticed nobody shoots those anymore and stopped taking 'em. Won't know until I can get to practicing "full time" ...
I like to take the long thins and usually make them, if for nothing else than to show the opponent what I thought of their safety attempt ;)
 
I like to take the long thins and usually make them, if for nothing else than to show the opponent what I thought of their safety attempt ;)
You really seem to be strong player. Any chance you shoot some ghost matches to Ghost sticky thread?
 
You really seem to be strong player. Any chance you shoot some ghost matches to Ghost sticky thread?

I looked into ghost ball when I first heard about it thinking that it might be a name for what I am already doing, but after reading the rules I have to say that I'm not that easy on myself. Practice time is limited so for whatever time I have I am either drilling or focusing on a certain skill, or I practice by playing against myself, something I call 'Doppelganger" that is more of a match game simulation, with the occasional insertion of Mulligans.

Here it is, copied from another post...

Playing Doppelganger (8-ball)

Rack the balls and break.
Analyze the table, pick the run out candidate, based on where the CB lies (i.e. no BIH).
Choose your pattern, if you didn't already.
Follow "The Process" (shot/shape planning, PSR, mental/physical execution) to run out.
If you run out, spot the 8 and run it out again
If you didn't run out the first time, the Doppelganger gets his turn to work at running out.
Repeat until 'someone' wins.
If there are sufficient balls on the table after someone wins, or an interesting layout that resulted, spot the 8 and try running that out.
Otherwise, rack and start again.

8-ball Variations

If you failed to get your shape:
a) set up the shot and try again, or,
b) adjust the pattern accordingly to run out, or,
c) play a safety

If the Doppleganger plays an effective safety, do your best to escape it and get even, setting up the shot again as many times as necessary.

If you foul, the Doppleganger has the option of:
a) taking ball in hand, or,
b) shooting the interesting leave that resulted.

For 9-ball it is similar; I will often respot the 9 after making it with a carom/combo and continue shooting.
 
I like to take the long thins and usually make them, if for nothing else than to show the opponent what I thought of their safety attempt ;)
If the ball action was good enough I didn't used to know any better than to take 'em. Always loved the billiards type cueball paths. Still do come to think of it. There's just no pool to work at it anymore. Bars and drunks and the odd guy who used to play good. :)
 
Lifelong B Player here...

For those of us that have scraped and clawed along the way to modest improvement, one thing that I think is so often overlooked is the FACT that there are shots that require constant attention! I think too many people think that you just master a particular shot and you then own it. Personally, I have to constantly work on long straight in shots, rail shots, jacked up shots, my break shot, and max english shots just to name a few. If I take a few weeks off -- I basically have to start back over -- tuning up all these shots. It's not like I can just continually work on mastering NEW shots. There's just not enough time in the day.

Secondly, I think we oversimplify the passion/apathy dichotomy. As I find it hard to believe that there is a pool player on the planet that could be passionate about the game WHILE constantly firing balls into the rails. Short of being autistic or having some sort of diagnosable OCD like disorder I think the original passion that many new players feel can ONLY remain long-term if the player is capable of improving. So it's my view -- that the psychology of a player is fueled at least as much by their ability as the other way around.

Every type of shot demands your full concentration and attention, every single time, in practice or play. Even pros miss shots when they take them for granted. Even straight in shots are unique in terms of the CB position that must result in order to continue the pattern play, always a consideration unless it is the game ball shot.

Since you say you are a life long B player, it sounds like you have been stuck at that level for a while. Do you really, really, really want to improve? Desire comes first. How long have you been playing?

Sounds like you have enough drive to drill on shots and have your own table.. The pros and some higher level players also do the same types of drills. They have shot enough to where they don't lose it all if they take two weeks off, but there is more to it that just grabbing the cue. If you have the desire, do you have the drive to do the rest of what it takes to improve? Much of that is mental.

I agree about the link between passion and performance. Note that I used the word 'performance' instead of your choice of 'ability' and this is because thinking of it in terms of ability is a slippery slope. It is a subtle but profound distinction, because the conscious and subconscious mind will believe what you tell it, and if you tell yourself that you have reached the limits of your ability, guess what happens?

The reality is that anyone is capable of improving, unless there is some sort of physical problem that constrains them. Even then, it is amazing what can be done.

The first time I met my friend Alan was in the city league as an opponent and he kicked my ass on the table. In spite of the fact that his head and stroking arm were shaking like a leaf while he was down on the shot. This was the result of a motorcycle crash when he was in high school, years before. Then he went in for a second round of brain surgery, which reduced but did not get rid of the shaking. He returned to pool league and continued to shoot well.

I was struggling with my shooting due to undiagnosed double vision that I overcame later on and got to the point where I was beating him at least half the time. I took inspiration from him because he demonstrated that my limitations were not entirely physical so I started working on my mental game.

His performance was all the more remarkable because as I found out later, not only did he have two rounds of brain surgery, both times he had to learn to talk, walk, feed himself and shoot pool all over again. He shoots left handed but is good enough at also shooting and winning right handed that the casual observer wouldn't know the difference.

Each shot is a process, staring with quieting your mind, working backwards from the game ball, picking the next shot, determining where the CB needs to land, planning 3 shots ahead, using a consistent and comfortable pre shot routine, addressing the shot, getting down on it, sighting, warm up strokes, figuring out how hard to hit it, what english, if any, is needed, standing up and starting over if something doesn't feel right, execution, follow through, staying down until the ball goes in the pocket. Rinse. Repeat.

If you get that process packaged in a way that works for you it is just a matter of executing it faithfully each and every time, and if you do, you will find that you don't have to start over if you take two weeks off.
 
Lack of talent and failure to spend adequate time at the table. That's why they don't improve.
 
Lotta tude involved too. Some are like "I been around the game for all my life blah blah..." You could spend 50 years at something but how much of that time were you good? I think at some point the doer has to make a decision to start and keep on improving.
 
Well in 2020 we got all sort of Pool Instructional Material FOR FREE, U-Tube is loaded, then there Dr. Dave's Web-site, no excuse for no improvement. Except too lazy to practice.

Back in the 1950's when I first picked up a Cue no one shared their secrets. No one said ha Kid come over he I will teach you. We only could watch what good players were doing, then try & practice what we observed and gleaned.
 
Lack of talent and failure to spend adequate time at the table. That's why they don't improve.

Pool was the first thing I was good at beside math/science. I got into it because it was more fun than going to college classes and it was a challenge. I think my 'talent' at it boiled down to shooting 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and my background in physics. Within 6 months I was a big fish in a little pond, without any lessons.

A couple years later I picked up guitar, learned to play, write songs, sing, again without lessons. There are a number of other things I do fairly well but after all this time, time invested and experience I still don't really know what talent (i.e. natural ability) has to do with it.
 
Well in 2020 we got all sort of Pool Instructional Material FOR FREE, U-Tube is loaded, then there Dr. Dave's Web-site, no excuse for no improvement. Except too lazy to practice.

I suspect that most look for skills based/how to videos on youtube and don't look for the ones on the mental aspects of the game. If you don't address the mental side you are like someone with a partially full tool box that doesn't know how to work on cars, let alone being aware of what tools are still missing from the kit.


Back in the 1950's when I first picked up a Cue no one shared their secrets. No one said ha Kid come over he I will teach you. We only could watch what good players were doing, then try & practice what we observed and gleaned.

Same with me in the early '70s.
 
Lifelong B Player here...

For those of us that have scraped and clawed along the way to modest improvement, one thing that I think is so often overlooked is the FACT that there are shots that require constant attention! I think too many people think that you just master a particular shot and you then own it. Personally, I have to constantly work on long straight in shots, rail shots, jacked up shots, my break shot, and max english shots just to name a few. If I take a few weeks off -- I basically have to start back over -- tuning up all these shots. It's not like I can just continually work on mastering NEW shots. There's just not enough time in the day.

Secondly, I think we oversimplify the passion/apathy dichotomy. As I find it hard to believe that there is a pool player on the planet that could be passionate about the game WHILE constantly firing balls into the rails. Short of being autistic or having some sort of diagnosable OCD like disorder I think the original passion that many new players feel can ONLY remain long-term if the player is capable of improving. So it's my view -- that the psychology of a player is fueled at least as much by their ability as the other way around.
Right here is a perfect explanation as to why we need to know manually where exactly the eyes need to be starting with the dominant eye.

The eyes are the last thing to get there when a player hasn't played for awhile. Whether it be 1 week, 2 weeks or 5 years.

Rodney Morris told me that this had cut his practice time in half. I knew already what he said was true because it is just the way it is.

If a player has played at a higher level at some time is their life and quit for a period of time or just can't play as much as they used to they really need to know this . How to get the eyes in this perfect position.

This is the most important thing that any player could ever learn from beginner to pro.

And believe me when I say the only players that know how this works is the ones that have learned it.

Playing allot will get you there from repetition, 10 hours a day for years, pro level, but the minute they don't play for awhile they struggle to have their brain relearn where the eyes really have to be.

I did not invent anything or figure out some gismo to fool players into thinking this works.

20 years of studying, teaching and seeing it over and over and over.

Why didn't anyone else figure it out?

Hard to do it just thinking about it or seeing it in your own game.

2.000 plus full lessons seeing and learning and teaching.

It was an accident that I learned it but it was not an accident that I was passionate enough to keep learning and teaching it to uncover the whole story.

I can teach this to anyone and improve their game greatly in a few hours. After that they have the ability to improve at a more rapid pace.

It's just the way it is. The way the eyes work naturally.
 
I suspect that most look for skills based/how to videos on youtube and don't look for the ones on the mental aspects of the game. If you don't address the mental side you are like someone with a partially full tool box that doesn't know how to work on cars, let alone being aware of what tools are still missing from the kit.




Same with me in the early '70s.


Well people are lazy, they want magic pill to be great at something. No Magic Pills, asn someone who is good at something, "you get that good with magic pill". Never heard YES.
 
I suspect that most look for skills based/how to videos on youtube and don't look for the ones on the mental aspects of the game. If you don't address the mental side you are like someone with a partially full tool box that doesn't know how to work on cars, let alone being aware of what tools are still missing from the kit.




Same with me in the early '70s.
Been around the predator crowd and seen enough action to know the mental part is built in. Selling it (the hype books) is like telling jocks that their brains are actually involved. :D
 
Been around the predator crowd and seen enough action to know the mental part is built in. Selling it (the hype books) is like telling jocks that their brains are actually involved. :D
In the context of "...reason lower level players don't improve..." my consistent observation is while they might be good shots the kind of mentality that you see in a pro or high level player is just not there. They miss easy shots without any idea of why, pick the wrong ball in the pattern, if they pick a pattern at all, shoot too hard, don't see scratch shot and a host of other sins, including getting frustrated/upset/angry when they lose.

The Championship Pool book I've mentioned covers pretty much everything else in addition to the mental aspects. Haven't read any others or even watched YT vids on it.
 
Well Pool is a game of skill, any Nucklehead can strike a Cueball with a Cue, King of hit the Objectball. Could or could not go in pocket, if it does frequently person holding Cue is skilled, if not person holding Cue is Nucklehead banger.

IMHO it take many skill, to be better the good at Pool. Not just aiming, the list of skills is long, and if you do not master many, be prepared be not do well at your personal pool game.
 
I was lucky, right handed, right eye dominant. Maybe after seeing something from you or someone posting a snooker eye dominance video when I first started playing 7 years ago, helped me to realize I needed my cue slightly to the right of my chin, as opposed to right under the middle of my chin as I thought would be best.

I do agree, sighting right is important, as wells a solid repeatable stance and stroke and bridge. However after starting as a 3 and within 2 years of playing one night a week in league moving to a 7, I think most people don’t get better because they don’t want to put in any extra work to get better. I am Uber competitive. I didn’t want to stay a 3, yet people in my league had been 3s for 10+ years because they make the same mistakes over and over. Don’t learn any basic cue ball control. Don’t understand the difference between a sliding cue ball and rolling cue ball, etc...
Thanks for your great reply. Having the eyes right is huge. You get a big jump on your visual game. I worked with a young man, 25 years old and he is a 2 in APA. After teaching him how to get the eyes right he was totally blown away that he could do what just seemed magical before. The league operator was just blown away with what he was seeing also.

If a player just seems to be pushing the cue ball hoping to hit the object ball there is no way he can even think about shape, English or patterns.

Now if he was super competitive and played everyday, 8 hours a day he would eventually start playing better but it would take a long time.

I didn't charge for this lesson, as many I don't, his huge smile when the balls were going in the hole were plenty enough.
 
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You know what I find funny Geno has been doing his "perfect aiming thing" for over 10 years, not one word in some Pool Magazine about his holy grail system, wonder why?
 
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