Would You Still Gamble With This Guy?

Get_A_Grip

Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
I'm just curious what everyone thinks of this gambling story that happened last night after leagues. I've been gambling with this teammate many times before after our leagues. Normally between $50 and $100 a set. Based on our preliminary Fargo Ratings, I'm supposed to play him with me going to 7 and him going to 6. However, I've beat him in the past playing 8-ball at 5-3 and he gets all the breaks, at 6-3 winner breaks, and at 9-5 and he gets all of the breaks. He beat me at 9-5 winner breaks once by 1 game, and a couple other times playing 10 ball at 9-5 with him getting the 9 ball.

So last night I was playing really good. I won all 3 of my games with 2 table runs. This guy won all 3 games, but made a few mistakes. Because I felt good I decided I would play him and give him a spot again. We played 10-ball with me going to 7 and him going to 5, he gets the 10 ball, and he gets all of the breaks for $50.

He gets up 3-1 (including the spot) and he decides that he's not going to break the balls anymore. He just slowly rolled the cue ball into the rack where only 1 or 2 balls hit the rail. He did it on purpose. (An illegal break). The first time he did it, I grabbed the cue ball so I could break. Then he reminded me that he gets ALL THE BREAKS. So he took ball in hand and kept playing safeties behind the rack so I had to keep kicking at the 1 ball until the balls were open enough for him to run out.

He did this the last 2 games until he got to 5 games and won. I was obviously protesting that it was a chicken sh!t move and he admitted that why should he break them open and if he doesn't make a ball, then I could run out and catch up. He then said that he will do whatever he needs to do to win.

Well, my conclusion was that I mainly am playing for the fun of it and it's not enjoyable to play with someone who would do that. It's just not "pool" to me at all with that type of illegal soft break. I basically told him that "he blew it". I was giving him huge spots giving him a really good chance to win, because he would never play 7-6 like Fargo Rate says. And then with a big spot, he had to pull that move on top of it. So I said I wouldn't be playing him anymore.

What do you say? I'm also curious on what everyone thinks could have been done with an illegal break (3 balls or more didn't hit the rail) and he was getting all of the breaks? I didn't make him re-break, because he could have just re-broke until only 3 balls hit a rail and I would be in nearly the same spot.
 
Get_A_Grip said:
I'm just curious what everyone thinks of this gambling story that happened last night after leagues. I've been gambling with this teammate many times before after our leagues. Normally between $50 and $100 a set. Based on our preliminary Fargo Ratings, I'm supposed to play him with me going to 7 and him going to 6. However, I've beat him in the past playing 8-ball at 5-3 and he gets all the breaks, at 6-3 winner breaks, and at 9-5 and he gets all of the breaks. He beat me at 9-5 winner breaks once by 1 game, and a couple other times playing 10 ball at 9-5 with him getting the 9 ball.

So last night I was playing really good. I won all 3 of my games with 2 table runs. This guy won all 3 games, but made a few mistakes. Because I felt good I decided I would play him and give him a spot again. We played 10-ball with me going to 7 and him going to 5, he gets the 10 ball, and he gets all of the breaks for $50.

He gets up 3-1 (including the spot) and he decides that he's not going to break the balls anymore. He just slowly rolled the cue ball into the rack where only 1 or 2 balls hit the rail. He did it on purpose. (An illegal break). The first time he did it, I grabbed the cue ball so I could break. Then he reminded me that he gets ALL THE BREAKS. So he took ball in hand and kept playing safeties behind the rack so I had to keep kicking at the 1 ball until the balls were open enough for him to run out.

He did this the last 2 games until he got to 5 games and won. I was obviously protesting that it was a chicken sh!t move and he admitted that why should he break them open and if he doesn't make a ball, then I could run out and catch up. He then said that he will do whatever he needs to do to win.

Well, my conclusion was that I mainly am playing for the fun of it and it's not enjoyable to play with someone who would do that. It's just not "pool" to me at all with that type of illegal soft break. I basically told him that "he blew it". I was giving him huge spots giving him a really good chance to win, because he would never play 7-6 like Fargo Rate says. And then with a big spot, he had to pull that move on top of it. So I said I wouldn't be playing him anymore.

What do you say? I'm also curious on what everyone thinks could have been done with an illegal break (3 balls or more didn't hit the rail) and he was getting all of the breaks? I didn't make him re-break, because he could have just re-broke until only 3 balls hit a rail and I would be in nearly the same spot.
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Total chicken ca-ca.

I wouldn’t gamble with the guy again. Not worth it.

Lou Figueroa
 
Z-Nole said:
You know the answer here. Do you enjoy spending time with D Bags? If so keep playing.
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I guess. As soon as he got home, he also sent a group text to our team saying that he kicked my @ss and I cried and now I won't play him anymore. He put a lot of funny faces and stuff like it was a joke. Then he texted just me and said, "Sorry bro, I couldn't resist".

I don't care that much. He's the one who blew future action with me and I was bending over backwards to give him a good game.
 
Pretty lame.
I am reminded of when I watched Jennifer Chen getting the call eight in nine ball from a top NYC player back in about 2001. When he racked the eight ball on the corner, she called it in the corner into which it was wired and made it on the break. There had been no stipulation that the eight could not count on the break, so she claimed she'd won the rack as she had called it. Disgustedly, he let her claim the rack, but he unscrewed after one set, which he lost double hill.

In my view, exploiting the fact that trivial aspects of the rules generally go undiscussed is outside the spirit of the game, but there's some room for interpretation here.
 
sjm said:
Pretty lame.
I am reminded of when I watched Jennifer Chen getting the call eight in nine ball from a top NYC player back in about 2001. When he racked the eight ball on the corner, she called it in the corner into which it was wired and made it on the break. There had been no stipulation that the eight could not count on the break, so she claimed she'd won the rack as she had called it. Disgustedly, he let her claim the rack, but he unscrewed after one set, which he lost double hill.

In my view, exploiting the fact that trivial aspects of the rules generally go undiscussed is outside the spirit of the game, but there's some room for interpretation here.
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Good assessment. Yeah, what she did was unreal too. Wow. If someone needs to do something like that to win...yikes. I only know of one pro match where Corey Duel did a super soft break on Shane playing 8 ball and left almost the entire rack undisturbed. Shane just raised his hands and said to him, "WTF".... I think Corey WON that game too if I'm remembering that correctly.
 
Get_A_Grip said:
I guess. As soon as he got home, he also sent a group text to our team saying that he kicked my @ss and I cried and now I won't play him anymore. He put a lot of funny faces and stuff like it was a joke. Then he texted just me and said, "Sorry bro, I couldn't resist".

I don't care that much. He's the one who blew future action with me and I was bending over backwards to give him a good game.
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Are the rest of the members on your team asshats as well? Jeesh..
 
Z-Nole said:
Are the rest of the members on your team asshats as well? Jeesh..
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He's the only guy on our team that will gamble with me. Maybe my other teammate was right when he told me that he will never play for money, it can break up a friendship. I told my opponent that I'm fine with him as a teammate, but I will never be gambling with him again after that.
 
You were outsmarted. You should adapt and overcome.

With that said if it’s not important to you to solve dealing with an a-hole I wouldn’t blame you for passing on playing him the next time.

For me I’d solve his gimmick. If you’re the better player you should be able to get back over on him.
 
Bishop said:
You were outsmarted. You should adapt and overcome.

With that said if it’s not important to you to solve dealing with an a-hole I wouldn’t blame you for passing on playing him the next time.

For me I’d solve his gimmick. If you’re the better player you should be able to get back over on him.
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I thought of that. But the way those last 2 games worked out, all I could do was try my best to kick and hit the lowest ball. I had zero opportunities the way the balls were laid out to do much of anything. Maybe the next time I would get a good kick and safe him and then I'd be in control.

My main concern was him technically doing illegal breaks and me giving him all of the breaks. I never thought in a million years that someone could exploit that spot like that. I've never seen that come up ever before.
 
Get_A_Grip said:
I thought of that. But the way those last 2 games worked out, all I could do was try my best to kick and hit the lowest ball. I had zero opportunities the way the balls were laid out to do much of anything. Maybe the next time I would get a good kick and safe him and then I'd be in control.

My main concern was him technically doing illegal breaks and me giving him all of the breaks. I never thought in a million years that someone could exploit that spot like that. I've never seen that come up ever before.
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Yeah I feel you.

I’d argue ball in hand isn’t a break and he’s not entitled to a foul under the ruse that it’s a break. If I’m understanding correctly.

Perhaps consecutive fouls is a lose etc.

Maybe if some of your other teammates agree with you it could be addressed as a team.

But again, if you’re the better player I’d work on your safety play and force him to lose at his own game.
 
alstl said:
Couldn't you have pushed out after the break?
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The first game I grabbed the cue ball thinking it was my break. So he took ball in hand and did a safe. The second game I did push out. But he took the shot and clipped the 1 ball and put the cue behind the stack.
 
sjm said:
... I am reminded of when I watched Jennifer Chen getting the call eight in nine ball from a top NYC player back in about 2001. When he racked the eight ball on the corner, she called it in the corner into which it was wired and made it on the break. There had been no stipulation that the eight could not count on the break, so she claimed she'd won the rack as she had called it. Disgustedly, he let her claim the rack, but he unscrewed after one set, which he lost double hill.

In my view, exploiting the fact that trivial aspects of the rules generally go undiscussed is outside the spirit of the game, but there's some room for interpretation here.
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Anyone who spots balls at nine ball really ought to be familiar with the safest places to put any spotted ball, which has traditionally been right behind the one. I suspect the champ was hoping Chen would make the spotted ball on the break uncalled and then it wouldn't be on the table any more. A sly move. I think Chen was right. But of course they should have discussed the details of the spot before they started the set. That's on both of them.
 
Bishop said:
Yeah I feel you.

I’d argue ball in hand isn’t a break and he’s not entitled to a foul under the ruse that it’s a break. If I’m understanding correctly.

Perhaps consecutive fouls is a lose etc.

Maybe if some of your other teammates agree with you it could be addressed as a team.

But again, if you’re the better player I’d work on your safety play and force him to lose at his own game.
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The rest of the team went home right after we played some 3-ball. Normally just he and I stay late to gamble one-on-one. I assumed we were playing 3 fouls is a loss. He never 3 fouled me. He did have me on 2 fouls a couple of times. I never had control of those two games. I do play safeties at least as good as him, but I was mainly kicking just trying to hit my ball. It's just the way those 2 games worked out. Both games worked out that after me kicking at the lowest ball a few times, all of the balls then became run-able for him.
 
Get_A_Grip said:
He's the only guy on our team that will gamble with me. Maybe my other teammate was right when he told me that he will never play for money, it can break up a friendship. I told my opponent that I'm fine with him as a teammate, but I will never be gambling with him again after that.
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Sounds like the kind of guy that everyone on your team is well aware of his BS. He knows you’re a better player than him and I would make sure to remind him of that every time he starts running his mouth. I would never waste your time playing him again unless you are playing even and for a substantial $. The nit that he sounds like he is pretty much guarantees that will never happen.
 
ChrisinNC said:
Sounds like the kind of guy that everyone on your team is well aware of his BS. He knows you’re a better player than him and I would make sure to remind him of that every time he starts running his mouth. I would never waste your time playing him again unless you are playing even and for a substantial $. The nit that he sounds like he is pretty much guarantees that will never happen.
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Yep. I did tell him that I don't like playing with guys that are afraid of their own shadow too. LOL He would NEVER agree to play even. No way. He does acknowledge that I'm better. But he likes to run around telling the bartender and others that he beat me, without conveniently telling them that I gave him a huge spot.

I must admit though, that I like playing for money. The spots seem way out of line, but I think that he and I are about even with money won and lost. I've outran the nuts quite a few times. That is also a lot of fun to do.
 
David in FL said:
Just for perspective, what are each of your Fargo ratings?
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I'm a little over 600 and he is a 540. But....we both have a little less than 100 games in the system.

At last year's State 8-Ball Tournament, he took 13th place and I took 5/6th place.

In a race, Fargo says that I should go to 7 and him to 6 for a "fair" match.

The biggest spot that I beat him at was 9-5 and he got all of the breaks. He was at 4 and me at 8 and I won at double-hill.
 
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I think you made a mistake here, but know that I'm not an experienced player or gambler. His soft break was a foul, as you point out. At that point you have ball in hand, anywhere on the table. When he said "I get all the breaks!" you should have said, "yes, but that was a foul, and I now have ball in hand." Your shot from ball in hand is not a break.

From the Billiard Congress of America rules:

"3. LEGAL BREAK SHOT. The rules governing the break shot are the same as for other shots except:
a. The breaker must strike the 1-ball first and either pocket a ball or drive at least four numbered balls to the rail.
b. If the cue ball is pocketed or driven off the table, or the requirements of the opening break are not met, it is a foul, and the incoming player has cue ball in hand anywhere on the table."

(Emphasis mine.)
 
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